Obese Travelers On Trains

[RichmondCommu]

Sorry sir, the post was aimed at Greyhound and not you! I completely believe your story, and unastonishingly it doesn't surprise me, it's a shame you had to move, but I can completely understand why you did.

No worries In fact I'd not noticed that Greyhound had typed what he had. Happy New Year!

 

[southern442]

1. Anyone with a BMI of 30+ must pay a premium.
2. Anyone over 100kg's must only travel off peak.
3. Anyone over 150kg's are not allowed to travel.

Just a few options.

Well don't forget that a lot of taller people will weigh more than the average person, just due to the fact that they have more body on them

 

[carriageline]

No worries In fact I'd not noticed that Greyhound had typed what he had. Happy New Year!

And to you and your family! And to everyone infact

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

G'day everyone,

Last September my Dad and I and my two sons and Grandson attended the Autumn Steam Gala at the Severn Valley Railway. As with every other Gala we had a lovely time and having said good bye to Dad at New Street the four of us headed by train to Derbyshire to spend the night with my Mum.

Whilst waiting for our train on the platform at New Street I became aware of a very large man in his 20's who was clearly obese. Even before the single Voyager arrived he was already becoming agitated and things became worse when he realised that the train was busy and he was unlikely to get a seat.

At this point I should add that I'd reserved seats for the four of us and that we were ahead of this bloke in the queue to join the train. Having located our seats I watched as the aforementioned bloke made his way down the carriage shouting that "me backs gone" and that he couldn't stand all the way to Hull. He then announced that he'd paid £89 to travel to Hull and he "deserved" a seat. In the end he stopped by where my youngest son and I were sitting with his buttocks resting by my cheek. Fearing that he might break wind I gestured to my son that we should give up our seats and move to the end of the carriage. This might sound over the top but it was patently obvious that there was no way that the bloke would fit into one seat.

In all honesty I had no sympathy for the bloke in the way that I would have for OAP's, the disabled or indeed pregnant ladies but ultimately I felt that we had no choice but to move. However, given that obesity is a growing problem in this country I do feel that TOC's now need to start addressing the problem. In my opinion there are two ways in which they can do this; insist at the ticket office that individuals of a similar size buy two seats or on the web site state that their reservations will not be valid unless they purchase two seats. And if necessary the railway byelaws need to be changed to reflect this.

Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards and a Happy New Year to you all

Richmond Commuter!

First of all, Voyagers do not come to Hull so he would have had to change at Doncaster which he should have been aware of...

Second, the moment that his buttocks touched you, you should have tried to get to the train manager and make a report of assault (silly, but it counts I have been told).

Third, I would have stayed in my seat and just let him get on with it.

On behalf of the people of Hull, I would like to apologise for this idiotic person's actions. I certainly hope you contacted the TOC concerned

 

[G136GREYHOUND]

I expect that story is slightly exaggerated . Although your sentiment is bang on the money, if you had grabbed me you would of known about it!!

To be fair, I'm not as slim as I used to be, but that sort of behaviour is disgusting. I'm a chubster cos I choose to be, and could easily sort it if I wanted to!

I assure you Sir, not exaggerated in the slightest

 

[ComUtoR]

Well don't forget that a lot of taller people will weigh more than the average person, just due to the fact that they have more body on them

Oh indeed. BMI is a standard measure though and until its changed then its the only real tool we can use to charge people extra. I also forsee problems with the weight factor as wheelchairs may fall into that category too. However maybe we can also introduce a system where passengers are assigned a priority and if your priority is higher than someone else then you have a right to their seat. I believe that Southeastern currently uses this system but it could easily be extended. Maybe introduce an "F" category

I forgot about tall people though. They can be quite intimidating so we should really do something about that too.

May I suggest Eugenics as a way of moving forward. Clearly its unacceptable that people are different from one another.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I assure you Sir, not exaggerated in the slightest

So you are confirming that you assaulted two people without just cause?

*looks for report button*

 

[Hartington]

I was looking for the Southwest Airlines (domestic USA) polict and came across this https://www.cheapair.com/blog/travel-tips/airline-policies-for-overweight-passengers-traveling-this-summer/ which is a summary of sevral US domestic airline policies.

The "seatbelt extender" is obviously irrelevant and the lack of checkin removes a "checkpoint" at which issues can be addressed but I think this shows that a policy can be generated. Quite what the policy should be is up for discussion.

I wonder if it would be appropriate to generate two policies? One for "Inter City" routes and one for "the rest"? I think not because of connections between the two policies but you might have a different view.

 

[GB]

Still have to start somewhere. Obesity is a real problem in this country and the sooner we start to do something about it the better it is for fellow passengers. The first thing we need to do is penalise people for being overweight and start to add terms in the railway bylaws to reflect this.

By adding restrictions on travel then we can mitigate the issue of disturbing other passengers as there is typically more room available on off peak services. I would much prefer to charge a premium than charge for the additional seat as some are overweight and obese but still manage to fit in a seat. As that may offend other passengers the premium can be ring-fenced and passengers can be upgraded to first class if there is an issue of sitting near to fat people.

We need to use weight or BMI as a measure because it would remove the subjectivity of the ticket seller. I like curves on a woman so I'd not charge the extra but fat blokes are a burden and unsightly so should be charged extra. Because of my own prejudices using a universal standard makes the whole system fair.

Just to be serious for a second here. You are aware of various eating disorders etc and that overeating is also symptomatic of depression ? There are also medical problems that cause weight gain.

Nobody here has the right to pass judgement on someone who is overweight. There are many social factors to consider too.

Those two statements seem completely contradictory but I cant tell if the first post is actually serious or not.

 

[Antman]

Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards and a Happy New Year to you all

Richmond Commuter



Happy new year to you too

I'd have let the fat f****r stew in his own sweat and told him so in no uncertain terms with the helpful advise that standing may burn some of his burger induced lard arse off and that if he didn't get it out of my face he'd be sitting on the next platform.

Perhaps that's just me though, I have before now, hauled two suited big newspaper reading business men in their 40's to their feet by their lapels and gave their seats to two ladies, one of who was heavily pregnant and both of whom had another child under 4 in their arms on a crowded tube before now. I had the same refrain as above : " But we've paid for these seats " to which my reply was : "You should have spent the money on courtesy lessons and a taxi and if you wish to make something of it, carry on"

I'm surprised that you didn't get either a punch on the nose or arrested for assault:roll:

 

[trainophile]

I'm surprised that you didn't get either a punch on the nose or arrested for assault:roll:

And he managed to evict two grown men at the same time. We are dealing with Superman here.

 

[Antman]

And he managed to evict two grown men at the same time. We are dealing with Superman here.

Obviously he had three shredded wheat for breakfast

 

[TUC]

No problem in itself with someone being obese but what I do object to is those who make no effort to fit into one seat. They sit taking up three quarters of the double seat, with legs spread apart, and make no movement when someone sits next to them. I've encountered several such people, including the last one who also had their elbows pointed outwards and kept these in position, digging into me for the whole journey. Why do some people lack the basic courtesy not to do such things?

 

[RichmondCommu]

First of all, Voyagers do not come to Hull so he would have had to change at Doncaster which he should have been aware of...

In all fairness such was his desperation to sit down the fact that he wouldn't be on the same train all the way to Hull wasn't at the top of his concerns.

Second, the moment that his buttocks touched you, you should have tried to get to the train manager and make a report of assault (silly, but it counts I have been told).

Third, I would have stayed in my seat and just let him get on with it.

On behalf of the people of Hull, I would like to apologise for this idiotic person's actions. I certainly hope you contacted the TOC concerned

I appreciate your sentiments but having had a lovely day with my sons I didn't want to spoil things by kicking up a fuss. Not only that but on a busy Voyager I should imagine the last thing the TM wants to deal with is a squabble over seats.

I didn't bother to write to the TOC for the simple reason that we were only traveling as far as Derby and retrospectively there's nothing that they could have done. However, as I've stated the TOC's do need to review their policy towards obese people traveling on trains because the obesity is on the increase.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I'm surprised that you didn't get either a punch on the nose or arrested for assault:roll:

Agreed. It would have taken a bit of effort to shift me by my shirt collar I can assure you.

I would advise that the heavily pregnant shouldn't travel on rush hour tubes.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I would advise that the heavily pregnant shouldn't travel on rush hour tubes.

What about those who continue to hold down jobs and want to devote as much of their maternity leave to looking after their infant as possible?

 

[trash80]

Still not a good idea though, a lot can go wrong in a crowded carriage. Some people have no choice of course.

 

[southern442]

Still not a good idea though, a lot can go wrong in a crowded carriage. Some people have no choice of course.

I think that if they are willing to work and willing to commute into the city even with the risks associated with traveling at this time whilst pregnant, then that's fine and nobody should stop them.

 

[trash80]

Yes but i didn't say they should be stopped just that they should know the risks.

When my sister in law was about 8 months preggers she was on a crowded DLR when someone tripped and nearly fell on top of her (he apparently was pretty agile and managed to skillfully twist and fall on top of someone non-pregnant instead ). There is a risk in travelling on a crowded train but everyone should be free to decide if its worth it.

 

[carriageline]

Agreed. It would have taken a bit of effort to shift me by my shirt collar I can assure you.



I would advise that the heavily pregnant shouldn't travel on rush hour tubes.

The point I was trying to make. Anyone grabbing me will be taken off the train quite quickly!! All it takes is a polite question.

 

[plcd1]

A fat person answers.

I have to say that I am appalled by some of the attitudes being displayed by posters in this thread. Are people really so openly aggressive to people who are larger than average? I am not excusing what the gentleman did in an attempt to obtain a seat - I'd never do that to anyone but the open hostility being displayed here is a concern. The ideas about "punishing" fat people through the railway's pricing and conditions of carriage are beyond belief.

I am well aware that I'm a fat lump and that I can "intrude" into people's perceived personal space. We all make the instant subconscious assessment of space - I see people do it instantly if I am sat down on a tube or a train. I will squash myself up so I minimise or remove any "intrusion" when things are busy but even then the seat beside me is the last to be occupied. It's not pleasant but people don't realise what they're doing and would deny it if questioned about it.

I am able and willing to stand if necessary but I doubt I'd want to stand for an hour or two on a train journey. I wouldn't want to evict anyone from their seats but if a seat became available and I could reach it then I'd want to sit down but not "crush" any people beside / near me. Now given I try to be reasonable and understand would someone say if I still deserve to be abused, insulted and surcharged? :roll:

I assume that the "anti fatties" here are also proposing to surcharge and villify people who drape their bags, newspapers, coats and computers across seats and tables in trains so as to avoid having anyone, of any size, sitting beside or near them?

 

[richw]

I was obese. I have lost a fair amount of it now. In seat widths its more width of the body rather than how round it was.

I was out front, width wise I wasn't that wide compared to how out front I was so never encountered problems on the trains etc..

I had a 50 inch waist at one point, i'm now needing a belt with 38 inch waist jeans so I've done ok.

as a big man, the only issue I encountered ever was on a Ryanair flight when a lady considerably larger than I was, got seated next to me. Fortunately my at the time 3 year old daughter had the window seat and didn't need that much space so lifted the arm rest and problem solved except during take off/landing when the arm rest was required down.

 

[VauxhallandI]

What about those who continue to hold down jobs and want to devote as much of their maternity leave to looking after their infant as possible?

A decision you make when you decide to have a child. However these days it becomes more and more other people's jobs to cater for the decisions of others.

 

[StateOfPlay]

I do find it unfair when the passenger is so large you can't even squeeze your bum onto the seat next to them. I mean, what can you do about that? You can't ask them to move their body off the seat. It is easier to stand than to try and squeeze onto a space that small.

The only fair way to resolve it is to have special seating. Like we have special car park spaces for parent and child, we could have larger seating for the bigger person.

It should be my train operator that sorts the problem out, not the passengers.

 

[ComUtoR]

Those two statements seem completely contradictory but I cant tell if the first post is actually serious or not.

The second is pretty much the only serious post. The fact that this thread has any amount of seriousness is shocking. To suggest we change railway bylaws to charge people for their obesity just goes to show how far society has fallen.

Take my posts with a pinch of salt but consider that is what people are calling for. With the post about the airlines goes to show that society prefers a stick to a carrot and we never look to the root cause. Obesity is not just people eating to much and very much the entire western society is ballooning.

The airlines rely on capacity and the additional seat is a huge loss of revenue. Trains, as always, are an entirely different sandwich.

 

[RichmondCommu]

A decision you make when you decide to have a child. However these days it becomes more and more other people's jobs to cater for the decisions of others.

In terms of pregnant ladies using the Tube / busy trains my wife's decision to continue to work (this was 20 years a go) had no impact on either those working for the Underground as it was then or for that matter BR. My wife never asked for a seat but on the other hand never refused the offer of one.

As a country we have a duty to make things easier for pregnant ladies and those with young children, not harder!

 

[me123]

1) Richmond Commuter, have you been having a chat with Katie Hopkins recently?
2) As we often state on here, purchasing a ticket does not entitle the traveler to a seat. I think it's therefore very difficult to argue that larger people should buy two tickets because they take up two seats. It sets a precedent that purchasing a ticket entitles the traveler to a seat, which is not true.
3) Obviously this traveler doesn't necessarily deserve a seat any more than anyone else, and it's clear he's been a bit of a ****. However, plenty of obese people travel on trains every day without causing problems.
4) Do TOCs have the staff and resources to weigh passengers and calculate their fare accordingly? Get real.
5) Width of seats on trains varies. Someone who may fit into a standard seat on an HST may not fit a 3+2 seat on a 321. Would the train operating the service determine the fare used? What about routes where different trains operate, with different seat widths? What about 334s, where the width in the middle carriage (3+2 seating) is less than the outer two carriages - would obese people be barred from the middle carriage?
6) What about standees? Given the obese person has paid twice, does this mean that (s)he's doubly entitled to a seat compared to everyone else when a train is full and standing?

Completely unworkable nonsense.

 

[RichmondCommu]

The second is pretty much the only serious post. The fact that this thread has any amount of seriousness is shocking. To suggest we change railway bylaws to charge people for their obesity just goes to show how far society has fallen.

So are you suggesting that those passengers that require the use of more than one seat to be able to sit down should only be charged for one seat? What's fair about that if you're on a packed train and unable to get a seat?

 

[trash80]

Who ever said life is fair and trying to bring in ridiculous conditions and procedures just for a fairly rare occurrence is nonsense.

 

[VauxhallandI]

In terms of pregnant ladies using the Tube / busy trains my wife's decision to continue to work (this was 20 years a go) had no impact on either those working for the Underground as it was then or for that matter BR. My wife never asked for a seat but on the other hand never refused the offer of one.

As a country we have a duty to make things easier for pregnant ladies and those with young children, not harder!

If part of being pregnant was putting the mother and baby at risk by being in this travelling situation then the decision would be to find a work around or not to go ahead with the idea.