Obese Travelers On Trains

[RichmondCommu]

G'day everyone,

Last September my Dad and I and my two sons and Grandson attended the Autumn Steam Gala at the Severn Valley Railway. As with every other Gala we had a lovely time and having said good bye to Dad at New Street the four of us headed by train to Derbyshire to spend the night with my Mum.

Whilst waiting for our train on the platform at New Street I became aware of a very large man in his 20's who was clearly obese. Even before the single Voyager arrived he was already becoming agitated and things became worse when he realised that the train was busy and he was unlikely to get a seat.

At this point I should add that I'd reserved seats for the four of us and that we were ahead of this bloke in the queue to join the train. Having located our seats I watched as the aforementioned bloke made his way down the carriage shouting that "me backs gone" and that he couldn't stand all the way to Hull. He then announced that he'd paid £89 to travel to Hull and he "deserved" a seat. In the end he stopped by where my youngest son and I were sitting with his buttocks resting by my cheek. Fearing that he might break wind I gestured to my son that we should give up our seats and move to the end of the carriage. This might sound over the top but it was patently obvious that there was no way that the bloke would fit into one seat.

In all honesty I had no sympathy for the bloke in the way that I would have for OAP's, the disabled or indeed pregnant ladies but ultimately I felt that we had no choice but to move. However, given that obesity is a growing problem in this country I do feel that TOC's now need to start addressing the problem. In my opinion there are two ways in which they can do this; insist at the ticket office that individuals of a similar size buy two seats if they wish to reserve seats or on the web site state that their reservations will not be valid unless they purchase two seats. And if necessary the railway byelaws need to be changed to reflect this.

Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards and a Happy New Year to you all

Richmond Commuter!

 

[James Wake]

I would have not moved, he was probably trying an old commuting trick of leaning on someone's seat to try and get them out of it. Sometimes on my commute I get people perching or putting their hand on the headrest of the seat I have chosen, if that happens, I just put my head back on the rest.

 

[trainophile]

Perhaps people should board a train via a weigh bridge, and pay accordingly! .

I must admit it makes me a bit nervous when I am travelling alone and there are huge people also waiting to board. Very grateful for dividing armrests between the seats, and I always make sure I lower it! Not sure which would be worse, being squashed against the window, or having half an aisle seat.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Perhaps people should board a train via a weigh bridge, and pay accordingly! .

I must admit it makes me a bit nervous when I am travelling alone and there are huge people also waiting to board. Very grateful for dividing armrests between the seats, and I always make sure I lower it! Not sure which would be worse, being squashed against the window, or having half an aisle seat.

Trust me it wouldn't have been half an aisle seat, he required the full use of two seats in order to sit down. We're talking at least 25 stone here.

 

[southern442]

This is a very difficult situation where opinion is divided. I personally would say that you should have just stayed put. I don't have anything against a larger person but to be honest I think that anybody who cannot fit into a single train seat should get medical help before expecting sympathy. The guy also seemed to behave in an inappropriate manner further supporting my point.

 

[ComUtoR]

1. Anyone with a BMI of 30+ must pay a premium.
2. Anyone over 100kg's must only travel off peak.
3. Anyone over 150kg's are not allowed to travel.

Just a few options.

(Mod - A joke in case anyone missed.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

In all honesty I had no sympathy for the bloke in way that I would have for OAP's, the disabled or indeed pregnant ladies but ultimately I felt that we had no choice but to move. However, given that obesity is a growing problem in this country I do feel that TOC's now need to start addressing the problem. In my opinion there are two ways in which they can do this; insist at the ticket office that individuals of a similar size buy two seats or on the web site state that their reservations will not be valid unless they purchase two seats. And if necessary the railway byelaws need to be changed to reflect this.

While I doubt I'd have moved, so long as the railway continues to provide seats which are not as wide as an average male's shoulders (particularly 3+2, but also Pendolino non-window window seats), it would be on dodgy ground doing this. By such a rule most blokes would have to buy two seats.

 

[deltic]

Perhaps people should board a train via a weigh bridge, and pay accordingly! .

Didnt an airline try to do this but had to back down in the end. Problem is that people who are obese are also likely to have medical problems, which may result in them being obese or because they are obese, and hence can claim to be discriminated against by such measures.

Not sure what the answer is but public transport and airlines seem to be going in the opposite direction of having smaller seats and less leg room rather than meeting the needs of the supersized generation although 3 + 2 seating on trains will probbaly not be seen again

 

[Late Trains uk]

As one ticket doesn't guarantee you a seat then two tickets wouldn't guarantee you two seats. Would you be refunded if you couldn't get two seats together? Would you get half a refund if only one seat could be found? And what if the two seats were not next to each other or were at a table seat?
And what would be stopping an obese passenger booking a disabled/priority seat?

 

[BestWestern]

I'd have asked him to move, perhaps suggesting somewhere more appropriate like a vestibule. Or suggest that, if he felt he had a genuine need for a seat, he should seek out the Train Manager and discuss whether a seat in First Class might be appropriate.

 

[trash80]

1. Anyone with a BMI of 30+ must pay a premium.
2. Anyone over 100kg's must only travel off peak.
3. Anyone over 150kg's are not allowed to travel.

Just a few options.

All depends on build, many people over 100kg can easily fit into any seat on this nation's railways as i proved myself on a Turbostar yesterday. I had the arm rest down too

 

[trainophile]

On a crowded London Midland to Birmingham recently a large (although not *very* obese) bloke moaned that he had paid for a ticket and shouldn't have to stand, and eventually parked his considerable bottom on the edge of the table I was at, right by my face.

He said "you don't mind, do you?", and I muttered "well it's not ideal is it?". The chap opposite was giving him the evils too, and eventually with more grumbling he stumbled further up the train.

Unfortunately he just had to lean on the luggage rack for the rest of the journey, but there were a lot of people in the same situation.

 

[BestWestern]

On a crowded London Midland to Birmingham recently a large (although not *very* obese) bloke moaned that he had paid for a ticket and shouldn't have to stand, and eventually parked his considerable bottom on the edge of the table I was at, right by my face.

He said "you don't mind, do you?", and I muttered "well it's not ideal is it?". The chap opposite was giving him the evils too, and eventually with more grumbling he stumbled further up the train.

Unfortunately he just had to lean on the luggage rack for the rest of the journey, but there were a lot of people in the same situation.

Being fat (unless it's an unavoidable medical problem, which it very rarely is), is not a reason to expect sympathy or special treatment, in my book anyway. If somebody does have a medical issue, then hopefully they'd be forthcoming about it in which case of course appropriate steps can be taken.

 

[trash80]

I wouldn't have liked anyone sitting on the table fat or thin, the passenger's weight shouldn't really be relevant in that situation.

 

[Master29]

Seat reservations are easy enough. whether he payed £97 is irrelevant. If he wants to cruise down the aisles using emotional blackmail as ammunition then that`s his business. I have an autistic son and I always make sure I`ve booked in plenty of time or use the priority seat card. If he had half a brain he would have done the same rather than starting a scene because of his obesity, but then some thrive on attention.

 

[G136GREYHOUND]

Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards and a Happy New Year to you all

Richmond Commuter



Happy new year to you too

I'd have let the fat f****r stew in his own sweat and told him so in no uncertain terms with the helpful advise that standing may burn some of his burger induced lard arse off and that if he didn't get it out of my face he'd be sitting on the next platform.

Perhaps that's just me though, I have before now, hauled two suited big newspaper reading business men in their 40's to their feet by their lapels and gave their seats to two ladies, one of who was heavily pregnant and both of whom had another child under 4 in their arms on a crowded tube before now. I had the same refrain as above : " But we've paid for these seats " to which my reply was : "You should have spent the money on courtesy lessons and a taxi and if you wish to make something of it, carry on"

 

[trainophile]

Seat reservations are easy enough. whether he payed £97 is irrelevant. If he wants to cruise down the aisles using emotional blackmail as ammunition then that`s his business. I have an autistic son and I always make sure I`ve booked in plenty of time or use the priority seat card. If he had half a brain he would have done the same rather than starting a scene because of his obesity, but then some thrive on attention.

I'm not sure how the genuinely disabled who do need a seat manage on unreservable trains. Presumably they will rely on people's goodwill, as I don't suppose the TM can insist on someone vacating a seat, unless it is a designated priority seat.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards and a Happy New Year to you all

Richmond Commuter



Happy new year to you too

I'd have let the fat f****r stew in his own sweat and told him so in no uncertain terms

The problem is I was traveling with my Grandson who was only three and a half at the time and although he's a German national and only speaks limited English he's a clever little boy and quickly picks up on things. In that case I didn't want to worry him, or embarrass my sons with a Richmond Commuter rant! I agree with your sentiments though

 

[63a]

Being fat (unless it's an unavoidable medical problem, which it very rarely is), is not a reason to expect sympathy or special treatment, in my book anyway. If somebody does have a medical issue, then hopefully they'd be forthcoming about it in which case of course appropriate steps can be taken.

Unfortunately, The European Court of Justice do not agree with you, nor do they agree with many other posters here. They have decreed that obesity is now classed as a disability. Humph.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/dec/18/obesity-can-be-disability-eu-court-rules

 

[RichmondCommu]

I'm not sure how the genuinely disabled who do need a seat manage on unreservable trains. Presumably they will rely on people's goodwill, as I don't suppose the TM can insist on someone vacating a seat, unless it is a designated priority seat.

Yes I think it is goodwill, at least certainly in my experience, as it is for pregnant ladies, OAP's or those traveling with young children.

 

[ComUtoR]

All depends on build, many people over 100kg can easily fit into any seat on this nation's railways as i proved myself on a Turbostar yesterday. I had the arm rest down too

Still have to start somewhere. Obesity is a real problem in this country and the sooner we start to do something about it the better it is for fellow passengers. The first thing we need to do is penalise people for being overweight and start to add terms in the railway bylaws to reflect this.

By adding restrictions on travel then we can mitigate the issue of disturbing other passengers as there is typically more room available on off peak services. I would much prefer to charge a premium than charge for the additional seat as some are overweight and obese but still manage to fit in a seat. As that may offend other passengers the premium can be ring-fenced and passengers can be upgraded to first class if there is an issue of sitting near to fat people.

We need to use weight or BMI as a measure because it would remove the subjectivity of the ticket seller. I like curves on a woman so I'd not charge the extra but fat blokes are a burden and unsightly so should be charged extra. Because of my own prejudices using a universal standard makes the whole system fair.

 

[MP33]

There is a very large man who I have had a run in with in the past. I did see that there as Railway Bye-Law stating that you should only occupy the number of seats that you have paid for. I assume that this is to cover luggage on seats.

As for the statement that they cannot help it. I noticed that this man stuffs his face throughout the journey and litters the carriage as well.

Something I have also noticed is a few obese people that I have met personally, think that medical advice and warnings, particularly about diabetes are wrong and in any case should be ignored.

 

[carriageline]

Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards and a Happy New Year to you all

Richmond Commuter



Happy new year to you too

I'd have let the fat f****r stew in his own sweat and told him so in no uncertain terms with the helpful advise that standing may burn some of his burger induced lard arse off and that if he didn't get it out of my face he'd be sitting on the next platform.

Perhaps that's just me though, I have before now, hauled two suited big newspaper reading business men in their 40's to their feet by their lapels and gave their seats to two ladies, one of who was heavily pregnant and both of whom had another child under 4 in their arms on a crowded tube before now. I had the same refrain as above : " But we've paid for these seats " to which my reply was : "You should have spent the money on courtesy lessons and a taxi and if you wish to make something of it, carry on"

I expect that story is slightly exaggerated . Although your sentiment is bang on the money, if you had grabbed me you would of known about it!!

To be fair, I'm not as slim as I used to be, but that sort of behaviour is disgusting. I'm a chubster cos I choose to be, and could easily sort it if I wanted to!

 

[trainophile]

There is a very large man who I have had a run in with in the past. I did see that there as Railway Bye-Law stating that you should only occupy the number of seats that you have paid for. I assume that this is to cover luggage on seats.

As for the statement that they cannot help it. I noticed that this man stuffs his face throughout the journey and litters the carriage as well.

Something I have also noticed is a few obese people that I have met personally, think that medical advice and warnings, particularly about diabetes are wrong and in any case should be ignored.

The trouble is, unless everyone carries a medical card stating whether they are deliberately or unavoidably overweight, how do you distinguish?

 

[RichmondCommu]

I expect that story is slightly exaggerated . Although your sentiment is bang on the money, if you had grabbed me you would of known about it!!

To be fair, I'm not as slim as I used to be, but that sort of behaviour is disgusting. I'm a chubster cos I choose to be, and could easily sort it if I wanted to!

I take it you are referring to Greyhound and not myself?? And no what I've posted is not exaggerated which is precisely why I've left it so long before I decided to post what happened.

 

[ComUtoR]

As for the statement that they cannot help it. I noticed that this man stuffs his face throughout the journey and litters the carriage as well.

Just to be serious for a second here. You are aware of various eating disorders etc and that overeating is also symptomatic of depression ? There are also medical problems that cause weight gain.

Nobody here has the right to pass judgement on someone who is overweight. There are many social factors to consider too.

 

[al78]

Didnt an airline try to do this but had to back down in the end. Problem is that people who are obese are also likely to have medical problems, which may result in them being obese or because they are obese, and hence can claim to be discriminated against by such measures.

Not sure what the answer is but public transport and airlines seem to be going in the opposite direction of having smaller seats and less leg room rather than meeting the needs of the supersized generation although 3 + 2 seating on trains will probbaly not be seen again

I don't think that is true, it is only a minority of cases that obesity is caused by medical conditions. It is mostly due to lifestyle choices.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Obesity/Pages/Introduction.aspx

In some cases it can be related to depression or some mental or emotional trauma in which case I can certainly sympathize.

 

[Master29]

I`ve had this too many times in the past. Like I said earlier my son is autistic and doesn`t like feeling cramped let alone some obese so and so demanding we leave our seats because they didn`t get a reservation. Just because it`s a mental disability doesn`t mean that a physical disability get`s preference.

 

[carriageline]

I take it you are referring to Greyhound and not myself?? And no what I've posted is not exaggerated which is precisely why I've left it so long before I decided to post what happened.

Sorry sir, the post was aimed at Greyhound and not you! I completely believe your story, and unastonishingly it doesn't surprise me, it's a shame you had to move, but I can completely understand why you did.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards and a Happy New Year to you all

Richmond Commuter



Happy new year to you too

I'd have let the fat f****r stew in his own sweat and told him so in no uncertain terms with the helpful advise that standing may burn some of his burger induced lard arse off and that if he didn't get it out of my face he'd be sitting on the next platform.

Perhaps that's just me though, I have before now, hauled two suited big newspaper reading business men in their 40's to their feet by their lapels and gave their seats to two ladies, one of who was heavily pregnant and both of whom had another child under 4 in their arms on a crowded tube before now. I had the same refrain as above : " But we've paid for these seats " to which my reply was : "You should have spent the money on courtesy lessons and a taxi and if you wish to make something of it, carry on"

If those people had paid for their seats and had sat down first, it is not their fault for not giving said seats up. What you have described is assault