Odd fitting above HST windows?

[ChrisCooper]

Just looking at some old photos and noticed something interesting on these two. Both powercars have a lighter strip above the windscreen, and some kind of box in the centre. Any idea what?

 

[asylumxl]

Looks like some kind of radio transmitter has been mounted on under it. A total guess.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Was wondering that, perhaps NRN? Then again I'm sure the HSTs had NRN well before 2003. Could be CSR (fitted South of Bedford)?

 

[O L Leigh]

That's not CSR. HST's don't run DOO services so are not required to carry CSR. The NRN would work fine all the way into St Panx.

I'm not sure what it is, always assuming it's anything interesting at all. However, if anything my money would be on it being a passive antenna for on-train monitoring equipment such as passenger counters and the like. We have similar antennae mounted inside the cabs of Cl315's, though in a slightly larger box.

O L Leigh

 

[ralphchadkirk]

That's not CSR. HST's don't run DOO services so are not required to carry CSR. The NRN would work fine all the way into St Panx.

Surely that doesn't mean they don't have CSR, just that they may not. AFAIK SWT Desiros have CSR - and yet their not DOO.

 

[VP185]

CSR and NRN is due to be replaced by GSM-R. Highly unlikely that they would be spending money on a radio system that is being phased out over the next few years.

It could be equipment being fitted in readiness for GSM-R going live. I know some operators have made a start installing some of the wiring and equipment to take GSM-R. Or it could be some kind of remote monitoring.

 

[jopsuk]

Those pictures though are from eight years ago. If the livery wasn't enough, they've got a ruddy great date stamp bottom right!

 

[VP185]

Those pictures though are from eight years ago. If the livery wasn't enough, they've got a ruddy great date stamp bottom right!

Whoops... It is quite early on a Sunday morning!

 

[rail-britain]

Both powercars have a lighter strip above the windscreen, and some kind of box in the centre. Any idea what?

During the 1990s HSTs were fitted with NRN aerials, and these were then removed

http://photosbyrob.photosnaps.org.uk/p43234909.html
http://www.garyschofields-railwaypics.fotopic.net/p55597832.html

 

[ChrisCooper]

So a replacement NRN aerial? That would make sence.

 

[Hairy Bear]

Correct !.
After the wires came down and earthed via the NRN aerial with rather a large bang they decidid to change it to one mounted within the roof. What you can see, in the picture, is the blanking plate and a fresh coat of yellow paint.

 

[O L Leigh]

Surely that doesn't mean they don't have CSR, just that they may not. AFAIK SWT Desiros have CSR - and yet their not DOO.

Oh blimey!! Not every exception disproves the rule.

I'm not familiar with the signalling and communication arrangements on the SWT network, but it may be that CSR is used as the preferred method of radio communication, especially in and around London. This would be particularly useful where DOO and non-DOO services are operating across the same signal workstation and where service density is high.

However, this does not become a hard and fast rule just because it is the situation in one place. And what if you're mistaken and SWT Desiros do not carry CSR? Anglia mainline sets don't.

O L Leigh

 

[ralphchadkirk]

However, this does not become a hard and fast rule just because it is the situation in one place. And what if you're mistaken and SWT Desiros do not carry CSR? Anglia mainline sets don't.

I could be wrong. But, you were making it sound that if it wasn't in a DOO area then it wouldn't have CSR, which is what confused me.

 

[O L Leigh]

No. NRN still operates even within areas covered by CSR. It is the type of service being operated rather than the area it passes through that is the deciding factor.

A DOO service has to have a CSR set because it has features that NRN doesn't to ensure that the box knows if the driver falls off the perch and can allow the signaller to make PA announcements (among other things). For DOO services, CSR is the primary means of communication with the signaller.

However, services that are not DOO (such as HST services) do not require CSR and it would be extremely unusual for the system to be fitted to such a train. Desiros are probably a bit of an oddity because they probably can operate as DOO and have been equipped to permit this style of operation except that no DOO agreement exists for SWT.

O L Leigh

 

[BestWestern]

....SWT 158's also have CSR units, as well as NRN, with a changeover switch to select either system. Same setup as the ex Overground 150/1 sets now with FGW.

 

[455/8]

All of swt units do run with CSR (ex one Desiro set which is running with the GSM-R) and the 158/9's as said by BestWestern have both CSR & NRN because of the area's they cover. The 455's were originally fitted with DOO equipment, however when they went for refurbishment the DOO equipment was completely removed, the 458's were again originally designed for DOO operations which most of the fleet can still run, only a couple of units have had some of the DOO equipment removed to allow the fitment of GSM-R, the 444/450's were built mainly with DOO in mind but were fitted to allow Full crew working with a Guard mostly because it's part of the franchise to have Guards.

Alan

 

[tempests1]

....SWT 158's also have CSR units, as well as NRN, with a changeover switch to select either system. Same setup as the ex Overground 150/1 sets now with FGW.

SWT Desiro's do have CSR, as I used to be a signaller in that area. CSR is fitted to all EMU's that work on the former Southern Region. I believe the reason is due to the small signalling sections as you enter Central London. From one point it is to save delay to the service, & those waiting behind when trying to contact the signaller. Another could be the danger that could be imposed when using a limited clearance SPT. I heard a story in the 1980's where a driver of an Up Exeter service stopped his class 50 and used a LC SPT at Dunsford Road (Wimbledon), & got oblitirated by a 4VEP on the adjacant line. NRN is not very good. For example people cant talk at the same time. A lot of Southern Region Signalboxes have not got NRN and For example with a freight train to give a Train Stop message you have to contract the route controller for them to send it. Somewhere like Eastleigh ASC does have NRN set up with the high amount of freight it deals with