Odd ticketing restriction? TFGM B/R daysaver

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Howardh, 9 May 2015.

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  1. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    Buy a Gtr Manchester Rail Ranger and it's valid for the cross-centre trams. As are the majority (AFAIK??) of rail tickets with Manchester (any station) as the destination and, of course, cross-Manchester rail journeys.

    Bought a System One Rail/Bus daysaver, and expected to be able to use it on
    the tram between Victoria and Piccadilly. But I e-mailed TFGM and apparently that's not the case, which seems a bit odd.

    Anyone used the B/T daysaver on city centre trams and been pulled up over it?
     
  2. cool110

    cool110 Member

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  3. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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  4. JaJaWa

    JaJaWa Established Member

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    That says nothing about the System One Rail/Bus daysaver?

    The System One page doesn't mention anything about tram validity either http://www.systemonetravelcards.co.uk/travelcards/details/daysaver-bus-train.

    However National Rail does say "Daysaver TB is valid on all Rail and Bus services within Greater Manchester, also valid on Metrolink services within the City Zone only" http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/prf0f796163043cf960bf53ef5923b3a.aspx. This page does appear to be outdated though as it doesn't mention the evening peak restriction on trains.
     
  5. Starmill

    Starmill Established Member

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    Last edited: 10 May 2015
  6. hairyhandedfool

    hairyhandedfool Established Member

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    TfGM are, not for the first time, talking out of their rear end, it's valid in the city centre (Victoria/Piccadilly/Castlefield).
     
  7. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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  8. button_boxer

    button_boxer Established Member

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    Rail tickets from an origin within GM will be issued to Manchester Ctlz and are valid on Metrolink in the city centre, but tickets from outside GM are to Manchester Stns and have no Metrolink validity. Similarly for cross-Manchester journeys I believe it's only tickets that are explicitly routed via Metrolink (which basically means journeys wholly within GM) that cover the Picc-Vic tram, those routed Any Permitted don't.
     
  9. boyaloud

    boyaloud Member

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    Don't forget New Islington is now in CTLZ!
     
  10. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    Got an e-mail reply which finally clears it up


    Not sure how they can get that info to anyone who doesn't know (their staff included, it seems) who simply boards a bus.

    Maybe it would be good customer relations - and stop a lot of confusion - if they simply allowed CZ tram travel with any all-day bus or train GM ticket?
     
  11. hairyhandedfool

    hairyhandedfool Established Member

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    Sounds like they are getting confused over a few things.

    Daysavers and Rail Rangers don't have a route field and thus will never have "Manchester CTLZ" or "Metrolink CTLZ" on them. They ARE valid in the Central Zone though.
     
  12. JaJaWa

    JaJaWa Established Member

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    I'm not sure why you sent them that link - it didn't mention anything about the B/T ticket. Kofieye's link does but it's still not very clear.
     
  13. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Oh dear, what a pile of mess.

    Where the ticket is purchased shouldn't affect its validity, but I think the link you sent them possibly confused them further.

    Anyway you have been given the correct answer from fellow forum members now so I doubt you would benefit by contacting them further.
     
  14. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    I have contacted them further - suggesting to avoid future confusion and for the sake of good customer relations simply make the B/T daysaver valid on CTRZ trams irrespective of where bought.

    I pointed out that many of the current rail-replacements end up inconveniently at Victoria and in the evening the VIV-PICC link buses aren't available; so what's to lose by allowing x-centre travel?

    If it can't happen it seems absurd that rail users can travel CTRZ for free but anyone on the *wrong* bus/rail ticket can't!
     
  15. gnolife

    gnolife Established Member

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    I don't have a picture, but posters displayed at all Metrolink stops state, under a heading labeled "validity of rail tickets" (or something to the effect of), that Daysaver Bus/Train area valid in the City Zone, without making reference to where printed.
     
  16. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Maybe I did not make myself very clear.

    The ticket is valid on City Zone travel on the Metrolink wherever it is purchased. There is no such thing as the ticket only being valid if purchased from a non-bus ticket machine. You have been given duff information by the advisers.

    The reason I said there is nothing further to gain by contacting them is because I doubt there would be many people making such enquiries, and even if they were briefed about this chances are that the next time someone asked them for information on this front, they would likely have forgotten about it anyway.

    You have all the answers in this thread so I see no point getting into further discussion with them.
     
  17. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    How do I know who's right?? If TfGM *caught* me using this ticket for the CZ trams and I was prosecuted, where are the rules and would said members commenting on this thread fund my defence? "The Rail User's Forum says I can use this ticket M'lud :rf: Just can't see what's wrong with a passenger spotting an anomily and asking them clarify and adjust if necessary!
    .
     
  18. Rail Ranger

    Rail Ranger Member

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  19. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    Already done it! Not been challenged yet, indeed I've never seen inspectors on trams in the City Zone :D

    Won't be needing it tonight - it's a bus+RRB direct to Piccadilly and straight to the pub from there.....
     
  20. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Here is confirmation from Northern. I don't know whether you consider that good enough.

    You can also tweet Metrolink if you are not happy with the advice from Northern. Metrolink twitter is manned today until 1800.
     
  21. Rail Ranger

    Rail Ranger Member

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    Also I'm fairly sure that the ticket poster on the platform at every Metrolink stop tells you that the System One Bus and Train Daysaver is valid on Metrolink in the City Zone only.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I checked a Metrolink fares poster on a platform this morning and I can confirm that it says that what it calls a "County Bus and Train Day Saver" can be used for free travel in the City zone of Metrolink.
     
  22. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    To me that seems sound enough even though Northern Rail don't run the trams or tfgm! Retweeted back asking him to check with TFGM just to be on the safe side as that information is the complete opposite of what I have so don't want him to come a cropper. But I will tweet/contact Metrolink; as it's their service that would be the answer I would use on the trams/in court!!

    If what TFGM told me was wrong, then someone needs to sort it out:oops:!!

    EDIT Not used to twitter; how will I know when I have a reply? Will it appear in my mailbox??
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    OK Metrolink have got back to me, a b/t day ticket bought on the bus is NOT valid on Metrolink CTLZ.

    So it's TFGM and Metrolink = no. It hAS to have CTLZ on and the bus-bought tickets don't.
     
    Last edited: 17 May 2015
  23. gnolife

    gnolife Established Member

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    Just goes to show that their twitter feed doesn't know what it's talking about, or have a totally different view of the rules to the inspectors and the posters at stations.
     
  24. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    Next time I'm @ VIctoria I'll have a look to see if anything's displayed. To be honest the Metro tweet makes sense, as the bus/train tickets don't have (valid in) CTLZ on, whereas the train/bus ones do.

    Somehow I'm gonna have to get to the top of TFGM and Metro and see if they can, indeed, accept both without predujice.

    Have a feeling though no-one has ever been questioned on the trams in CTRZ by inspectors - that's if inspectors ever come round - otherwise I'm sure it would have been mentioned here lots of times! It may be that the ticket is quietly accepted anyway; but it would be nice to be *legal* just in case!

    But it's been quite fun getting to the bottom of it all; and also worrying that writers on here have been saying one thing is right when it - in theory at least - isn't necessarily right.
     
  25. gnolife

    gnolife Established Member

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    I've been stopped numerous times using this in various places in the city centre, (Most frequently at Shudehill during the Victoria shutdown), while they check that it's genuine, then let me carry on with what I'm doing.
     
  26. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    Thanks, that's reassuring :D
     
  27. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Are rail-issued ones even annotated with the CTLZ?I have only ever bought bus ones but I would be very surprised if they were.

    If not, then they are quite simply talking a load of nonsense.
     
  28. Starmill

    Starmill Established Member

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    It's just a Day Ranger with "DAYSAVER TB" in the 'Available' field.
     
  29. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I can foresee an "interesting" conversation developing here.

    If this goes badly, is anyone willing/able to take this issue up with their MP? Preferrably it would be someone local to the GM area.
     
  30. hairyhandedfool

    hairyhandedfool Established Member

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    No, they are not.
     
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