Omicron variant and the measures implemented in response to it

[43066]

Yes, but I fail to see why in 21 months you couldn't train up a large army of people - those who were on furlough for most of the time, perhaps - specifically with the skills required in how to deal with Covid patients. Actually I don't see why that couldn't have been done for last winter, never mind this one.

Even at the outset of the crisis, the government could have rapidly recruited nursing staff from overseas by (say) offering guaranteed two year contracts paying £50k and free accommodation. They could have kept the nightingale hospitals open thereby substantially increasing capacity. Yes they would be criticised for creating a “brain drain” in poorer counties - but that’s really no different to what the NHS has been doing for decades. Alternatively as you say some form of fast tracked recruitment.

The solutions are there. Just seemingly not the gumption or tenacity to adopt them.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Yes, but I fail to see why in 21 months you couldn't train up a large army of people - those who were on furlough for most of the time, perhaps - specifically with the skills required in how to deal with Covid patients. Actually I don't see why that couldn't have been done for last winter, never mind this one.

We're continually told how serious a situation this is, and yet the sort of things that would usually be done, eg. in wartime, just haven't even been attempted.

The simple answer: We have an economically far-right government who really do believe that the free market will solve everything and that public intervention is the very, very, very last resort when even bunging a few £bn to your mates has failed. And when you do have to (really, must we) intervene, that is in the form of bunging a few more £bn to your mates as contractors rather than direct provision eg contracting out test and trace (in the main), contracting out PPE storage and distribution (found rather wanting - military kick up the bum required). Outside health, look at the CO2 problems for the food industry and it's solution, bung them a wad then forget about it until it comes back a couple of years later, same issue, same solution.

 

[brad465]

Yes, but I fail to see why in 21 months you couldn't train up a large army of people - those who were on furlough for most of the time, perhaps - specifically with the skills required in how to deal with Covid patients. Actually I don't see why that couldn't have been done for last winter, never mind this one.

We're continually told how serious a situation this is, and yet the sort of things that would usually be done, eg. in wartime, just haven't even been attempted.

Yes I think we should have trained staff to manage "bed blockers" and move them into the Nightingale Hospitals, if this is something that doesn't require much training relative to a nurse. These temp hospitals of course saw little use due to the lack of staff.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Yes I think we should have trained staff to manage "bed blockers" and move them into the Nightingale Hospitals, if this is something that doesn't require much training relative to a nurse. These temp hospitals of course saw little use due to the lack of staff.

'Bed blockers' shouldn't be in any kind of hospital. The issue of rapid deployment of home adaptations, meeting home care needs and such like needs to be addressed. It has needed to be addressed for many years. While you are in hospital the NHS pays, when you are elsewhere the council pays. Merge the two budgets under one common organisation and a lot of the problems could be resolved as the 'who pays' disappears.

 

[Bungle73]

Can someone tell me what the point of the past year was? All that rush to get people vaccinated, the promise of a return to normality, yet here we are basically back to square one as if the past two years never happened. I won't be obeying any new restrictions, and I hope the police officer mention earlier is ready for riots on the streets because that's what you're going to get. I won't be getting a booster because I've become thoroughly disillusioned with the whole thing,and I'm certainly not going to have an injection every few months, which it looks like is what is going to happen.

 

[Eyersey468]

Can someone tell me what the point of the past year was? All that rush to get people vaccinated, the promise of a return to normality, yet here we are basically back to square one as if the past two years never happened. I won't be obeying any new restrictions, and I hope the police officer mention earlier is ready for riots on the streets because that's what you're going to get. I won't be getting a booster because I've become thoroughly disillusioned with the whole thing,and I'm certainly not going to have an injection every few months, which it looks like is what is going to happen.

I refuse to have a booster every few months as well, seems a complete waste of time and effort to me.

 

[quantinghome]

Can someone tell me what the point of the past year was? All that rush to get people vaccinated, the promise of a return to normality, yet here we are basically back to square one as if the past two years never happened. I won't be obeying any new restrictions, and I hope the police officer mention earlier is ready for riots on the streets because that's what you're going to get. I won't be getting a booster because I've become thoroughly disillusioned with the whole thing,and I'm certainly not going to have an injection every few months, which it looks like is what is going to happen.

This isn't going to be over until the virus becomes a low-level endemic disease like other coronaviruses. Until it's run its course I'm afraid life is not going to fully return to normal.

However, by vaccinating we have been able to return to 'nearly normal'. Vaccination has built a wall against the virus. Unfortunately the new Omicron variant is spreading very rapidly. We don't yet know whether the vaccination wall we've built will be strong enough to stop it having a serious impact. We'll know soon enough though.

What won't help is refusing to get a booster vaccination. We need to build the vaccination wall as big and as strong as we can.

 

[BRX]

Can someone tell me what the point of the past year was? All that rush to get people vaccinated, the promise of a return to normality, yet here we are basically back to square one as if the past two years never happened. I won't be obeying any new restrictions, and I hope the police officer mention earlier is ready for riots on the streets because that's what you're going to get. I won't be getting a booster because I've become thoroughly disillusioned with the whole thing,and I'm certainly not going to have an injection every few months, which it looks like is what is going to happen.

So... you think nothing would be different now, if the majority of the population weren't vaccinated?

 

[DustyBin]

So... you think nothing would be different now, if the majority of the population weren't vaccinated?

I think you can legitimately question the impact of vaccinations by age group; there’s certainly diminishing returns as you move down the groups. Younger people may even be better off with natural immunity (as Whitty inadvertently alluded to last night) which is why the situation isn’t black and white for me.

 

[Purple Orange]

This isn't going to be over until the virus becomes a low-level endemic disease like other coronaviruses. Until it's run its course I'm afraid life is not going to fully return to normal.

However, by vaccinating we have been able to return to 'nearly normal'. Vaccination has built a wall against the virus. Unfortunately the new Omicron variant is spreading very rapidly. We don't yet know whether the vaccination wall we've built will be strong enough to stop it having a serious impact. We'll know soon enough though.

What won't help is refusing to get a booster vaccination. We need to build the vaccination wall as big and as strong as we can.

Well said.

 

[43066]

This isn't going to be over until the virus becomes a low-level endemic disease like other coronaviruses. Until it's run its course I'm afraid life is not going to fully return to normal.

That’s your own opinion. It be over when the politicians calling the shots calculate that the political risk v. reward of continuing restrictions tips towards fully resuming life as normal. We are much closer to that point now with such a high % of the population being vaccinated, as evidenced by the decision not to impose more stringent restrictions ahead of Christmas.

If the politicians has done a better job of managing expectations ie: it’s a pandemic, lots of people will die whatever we do and there’s nothing anyone can do about it, we would have been at this stage much earlier.

We don't yet know whether the vaccination wall we've built will be strong enough to stop it having a serious impact. We'll know soon enough though.

If the “vaccination wall” isn’t strong enough by now it never will be. The restrictions last year were justified nh those imposing them as being necessary only while we were “building the wall”. Now that we have achieved such high coverage it’s unclear what the justification for significant new restrictions would be.

Also worth noting that the restrictions of the last two years might well have had a more “serious impact” than Covid itself would have had, had we taken a much more relaxed Swedish style approach.

What won't help is refusing to get a booster vaccination. We need to build the vaccination wall as big and as strong as we can.

Sorry but a year after the vaccine was rolled out this is plainly puerile nonsense. If the “wall” isn’t going to get us back to normal we might as well not bother getting vaccinated in the first place, especially when it seems to the goalposts have shifted to medically unethical vaccines for children, boosters every three months etc.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

So... you think nothing would be different now, if the majority of the population weren't vaccinated?

That depends on how well Omicron avoids current vaccines. Project Fear seems to want us to believe that our current double vaccination offers little protection so go out and get a booster NOW, whilst at the same time saying that protection remains and it might only be a bit of a cold.

I'll wait for the science rather than the YouGov polls before I can come to any opinion one way or the other. However I do accept that the government does not have that luxury and has to decide on measures to implement, although they have access to more information and expertise.

 

[Bungle73]

This isn't going to be over until the virus becomes a low-level endemic disease like other coronaviruses. Until it's run its course I'm afraid life is not going to fully return to normal.

However, by vaccinating we have been able to return to 'nearly normal'. Vaccination has built a wall against the virus. Unfortunately the new Omicron variant is spreading very rapidly. We don't yet know whether the vaccination wall we've built will be strong enough to stop it having a serious impact. We'll know soon enough though.

What won't help is refusing to get a booster vaccination. We need to build the vaccination wall as big and as strong as we can.

Sorry, I've had enough. I've had enough of the lies, the misinformation and constantly moving goalposts. I had the two vaccines on the understanding that was what was needed to get out lives back, and that I would only need the two, and those has turned out to be total lies. And, after we'd originally been told that only a percentage of the population needed it which suddenly morphed into everyone, and the same has happened again. This time I don't believe a word of it.

 

[Yew]

This isn't going to be over until the virus becomes a low-level endemic disease like other coronaviruses..

It already is.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2021 ==

Sorry, I've had enough. I've had enough of the lies, the misinformation and constantly moving goalposts. I had the two vaccines on the understanding that was what was needed to get out lives back, and that I would only need the two, and those has turned out to be total lies. And, after we'd originally been told that only a percentage of the population needed it which suddenly morphed into everyone, and the same has happened again. This time I don't believe a word of it.

It is my life, and it is time for us to join together and ask Chris to render unto us what is ours.

 

[brad465]

So in other words, they're planning to lock the country down:

We're not locking the country down, says Boris Johnson amid rising Covid cases

It comes amid claims - denied by No 10 - that the government is sending out mixed messages on Covid rules.

www.bbc.co.uk

Boris Johnson has insisted England is not being put into lockdown by stealth, despite accusations from some of his own MPs.
The prime minister said he was not telling the public to cancel events, but urging them to exercise "caution".
It comes as chief medical officer Chris Whitty suggested people "prioritise" activities in the run-up to Christmas.
Conservative MP Steve Brine accused the government of "putting hospitality into effective lockdown".
Mr Brine said Prof Whitty's comments meant businesses were facing "complete ruin" and more government support was needed.
Business group the CBI has urged ministers to provide more support for pubs, restaurants and other venues, who have seen a rise in booking cancellations amid the spread of the Omicron variant.
The PM's spokesman denied Number 10 was sending out mixed messages about socialising over Christmas, adding that both the prime minister and the chief medical officer "were making the point that given the current infection rate people should be cautious and think carefully before mixing with others".

Meanwhile, Labour said the government needed to provide clarity on how it wants people to behave in the coming weeks.
With thousands of football fans due to attend matches in the coming days, shadow heath secretary Wes Streeting said "clarity from the government would be helpful" on whether they should go or not.
He added that the new Covid pass scheme for large events in England should give people confidence to "go about their daily lives and enjoy themselves".
"We have got to get to a point in this country where we can co-exist with coronavirus," he added.
On Wednesday, Dr Nikki Kanani - director of primary care at NHS England - said her advice would be "if you're going to go to a stadium at the weekend, make it one where you can get your vaccine or help out to give a vaccine, rather than going to watch a match."
Some big stadiums, including Stamford Bridge, Wembley and Elland Road are hosting mass vaccination centres.
Separately, Prof Whitty told MPs "if the most important thing to someone in the next 10 days is to go to a football match, do that."

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Sorry, I've had enough. I've had enough of the lies, the misinformation and constantly moving goalposts. I had the two vaccines on the understanding that was what was needed to get out lives back, and that I would only need the two, and those has turned out to be total lies. And, after we'd originally been told that only a percentage of the population needed it which suddenly morphed into everyone, and the same has happened again. This time I don't believe a word of it.

You had the double vaccination to primarily protect yourself from a potentially serious illness (or not as the case may now be, see previous). You should decide whether to have the booster on the same basis, not on whether it lets you enjoy the pantomime with or without a pass. [oh yes you can, oh no you can't, it's behind you]

Your personal risk of catching it and developing a bad case of it, depends on your age, lifestyle, personal health etc. As no specific risk analysis is published by age etc there is no real advice available other than the shouty DO IT NOW OR ELSE. Not a productive message I would have thought, then again 90% did gallop along to get done ASAP and are doing so now, standing outside for five hours, in winter, despite having made an apppintment. [see examples in The Times yesterday] Hey ho, whatever floats their boat.

 

[Eyersey468]

Sorry, I've had enough. I've had enough of the lies, the misinformation and constantly moving goalposts. I had the two vaccines on the understanding that was what was needed to get out lives back, and that I would only need the two, and those has turned out to be total lies. And, after we'd originally been told that only a percentage of the population needed it which suddenly morphed into everyone, and the same has happened again. This time I don't believe a word of it.

Nor do I. I am also sick of the lies, false promises and hypocrisy. This government has squandered every scrap of goodwill I had for the cause. I will have one booster when I am ready then thats it. No more, unless I absolutely have to have one for foreign travel.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2021 ==

So in other words, they're planning to lock the country down:

We're not locking the country down, says Boris Johnson amid rising Covid cases

It comes amid claims - denied by No 10 - that the government is sending out mixed messages on Covid rules.

www.bbc.co.uk

Given their track record that wouldn't surprise me

 

[Baxenden Bank]

So in other words, they're planning to lock the country down:

We're not locking the country down, says Boris Johnson amid rising Covid cases

It comes amid claims - denied by No 10 - that the government is sending out mixed messages on Covid rules.

www.bbc.co.uk

Ah, people don't want to make decisions for themselves, to take on personal responsibility. They just want to be told "go to the pub" or "don't go to the pub". What a [word deleted] population.

 

[MikeWM]

You had the double vaccination to primarily protect yourself from a potentially serious illness (or not as the case may now be, see previous). You should decide whether to have the booster on the same basis, not on whether it lets you enjoy the pantomime with or without a pass.

Entirely correct.

However, *if* the vaccination had been described in that way, as it very much ought to have been done, then the response from some posters on this thread would be a bit unreasonable.

But we all know that it wasn't - it was described as 'the route back to normal', with posters specifically targeted at young people telling them 'not to miss out' on events, etc., and which apparently includes vaccinating children even though they are at infinitesimal risk of the disease. The strategy makes no sense, and various people are coming to that conclusion in different ways.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

So in other words, they're planning to lock the country down:

We're not locking the country down, says Boris Johnson amid rising Covid cases

It comes amid claims - denied by No 10 - that the government is sending out mixed messages on Covid rules.

www.bbc.co.uk

Better watch the TV schedules for 17.00 on Monday, then....

 

[Eyersey468]

Entirely correct.

However, *if* the vaccination had been described in that way, as it very much ought to have been done, then the response from some posters on this thread would be a bit unreasonable.

But we all know that it wasn't - it was described as 'the route back to normal', with posters specifically targeted at young people telling them 'not to miss out' on events, etc., and which apparently includes vaccinating children even though they are at infinitesimal risk of the disease. The strategy makes no sense, and various people are coming to that conclusion in different ways.

I agree it should have been described as a way of protecting oneself not the way it was.

 

[MikeWM]

I see Whitty today has basically suggested we'll be stuck in this 'cycle' of variants until mid-2023 - at which point things he says things will be better because we'll have better vaccines

As I'm aware of the concept of 'original antigenic sin' I think I'll wait for these 'better vaccines' in 18 months time and/or get natural immunity in the meantime (if I don't have it already).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10313513/Prepare-18-MONTHS-Covid-chaos-says-Chris-Whitty.htm

Existing jabs have been designed to recognise and target the spike protein of the original virus that emerged in China.

But as the pandemic has progressed, scientists have learned that the spike is prone to mutation, with Omicron containing 32 alterations to this part of its structure alone.

A polyvalent vaccine, in contrast, would target pieces of the virus that stimulate the immune system, known as epitopes, that do not mutate.

As some of us have been pointing things out like this for a while - maybe they should have done that first?

 

[yorksrob]

Vaccination is still part of the route back to normality. The more people are boosted, the more "normal" things will remain for the timebeing.

 

[quantinghome]

Sorry, I've had enough. I've had enough of the lies, the misinformation and constantly moving goalposts. I had the two vaccines on the understanding that was what was needed to get out lives back, and that I would only need the two, and those has turned out to be total lies. And, after we'd originally been told that only a percentage of the population needed it which suddenly morphed into everyone, and the same has happened again. This time I don't believe a word of it.

Given the way some at the highest levels government have behaved, it's no surprise at all that people have lost trust in them, if they ever had it in the first place.

The honest thing for the PM to have said is that that there was always a chance that a new variant could emerge and cause problems. He should have been humble enough to say last summer "as it stands, the vaccines are giving good protection against the current Covid variants, but we're not fortune tellers and the facts on the ground may change". Instead, Johnson talked about 'irreversible' steps out of lockdown, making himself a hostage to fortune, and now quite rightly earning the wrath of those whose hopes were raised by his rhetoric.

Regardless of the government's misdoings, @yorksrob is right. Vaccination is the best way out of this.

 

[Bungle73]

I see Whitty today has basically suggested we'll be stuck in this 'cycle' of variants until mid-2023 - at which point things he says things will be better because we'll have better vaccines

And where have we heard that one before.......

Vaccination is still part of the route back to normality. The more people are boosted, the more "normal" things will remain for the timebeing.

Given the way some at the highest levels government have behaved, it no surprise whatsoever that people have lost trust in them, if they ever had it in the first place.

The honest thing for the government to have said is that that there was always a chance that a new variant could emerge and cause problems. They should have been humble enough to say last summer "as it stands, the vaccines are giving good protection against the current Covid variants, but we're not fortune tellers and the facts on the ground may change".

But regardless of the government's misdoings, @yorksrob is right. Vaccination is the best way out of this.

Sorry, I don't believe that story now.

 

[quantinghome]

Sorry, I don't believe that story now.

In that case your best bet would be to contact your GP or some other medical professional you trust and ask for their honest opinion.

 

[MikeWM]

In that case your best bet would be to contact your GP or some other medical professional you trust and ask for their honest opinion.

'Some other medical professional' would be better, given the GP has a specific financial incentive to persuade you to take the vaccine.

Hopefully most GPs are decent enough people not to have that affect their advice, but it does call into question their objectivity.

 

[Eyersey468]

And where have we heard that one before.......



Sorry, I don't believe that story now.

I agree that Boris should have been honest for once in his life and said there was the chance of a new varient coming along, however I am also finding it hard to believe vaccination is the way out of this now given the number of times the government has lied.

 

[Simon11]

I am struggling to understand what is so challenging and difficult about getting a simple vaccination?

Now isnt the time to throw toys out the pram because xyz was said last year by abc.

It only takes an hour and a small bit of pain. I would rather face that than face other restrictions.

As for costs, it is far better value than other measures and as for concerns for what is in it, I dont think people even look at the ingredients in a lovely pint of local ale!

 

[Peterthegreat]

I am struggling to understand what is so challenging and difficult about getting a simple vaccination?

Now isnt the time to throw toys out the pram because xyz was said last year. It only takes an hour and a small bit of pain. I would rather face that than face other restrictions.

Hear Hear.