Once Soham station has opened, what improvements could be made to service provision on the line?

[Class 170101]

It would be cheaper to reverse at Chippenham Junction to allow a Ely to Cambridge via Soham service to operate rather than the chord as suggested above.

 

[eastdyke]

I don't think that the journey time is the main issue, it is the 2 hourly service. Sure a very expensive chord would shave a few minutes off but would have few, if any, network benefits. But I do know that the hourly service will be a long time coming.

Journey times (change @ Ely) will be in the region 45-48mins to Cambridge and less than 40 minutes for the return.
[return fares £9.40 anytime, £6.60 off-peak].

Nonetheless, I wish Soham [aka Palmer's Folly or Palmer's Holt [deliberate 'o']] well.

 

[Bald Rick]

What is a likely cost of the referred-to chord and all its associated infrastructure that will be required? I see a figure of £20 million being mentioned.

£20m is a fag packet guess for the chord; it could easily be twice that, for example if the land issue gets complicated. Sorting the rest out - extra capacity in the Newmarket line (including sorting lots of Level Crossings), capacity at Cambridge, double tracking Soham to Ely - complete guess but £100m is not too outlandish.

 

[alf]

£20m is a fag packet guess for the chord; it could easily be twice that, for example if the land issue gets complicated. Sorting the rest out - extra capacity in the Newmarket line (including sorting lots of Level Crossings), capacity at Cambridge, double tracking Soham to Ely - complete guess but £100m is not too outlandish.

With respect, that is the defeatist attitude that infects the railway.

Thank heavens we had energetic railway project leaders with a great “it can be done attitude” in charge of Okehampton to Crediton rather than the defeatist “we don’t do it that way” approach that had bedevilled railway infrastructure changes this century.
The Devon bosses would have had trains running on the chord for less than £10m.

There are no buildings on the line of the chord. I believe it is on chalk - brilliant for drainage. No public access to the land on either side of the chord to get in the way. And a route & its underlying ground that was used, tested & compacted by trains for, I guess, at least 70years before.

But I am sure the defeatists can list all sorts of problems, rather than finding ways to remove them.

 

[Tobbes]

With respect, that is the defeatist attitude that infects the railway.

Thank heavens we had energetic railway project leaders with a great “it can be done attitude” in charge of Okehampton to Crediton rather than the defeatist “we don’t do it that way” approach that had bedevilled railway infrastructure changes this century.
The Devon bosses would have had trains running on the chord for less than £10m.

There are no buildings on the line of the chord. I believe it is on chalk - brilliant for drainage. No public access to the land on either side of the chord to get in the way. And a route & its underlying ground that was used, tested & compacted by trains for, I guess, at least 70years before.

But I am sure the defeatists can list all sorts of problems, rather than finding ways to remove them.

With respect. @alf , perhaps you could show us some examples of where @Bald Rick has be wrong over the years?

 

[eastdyke]

With respect, that is the defeatist attitude that infects the railway.

Thank heavens we had energetic railway project leaders with a great “it can be done attitude” in charge of Okehampton to Crediton rather than the defeatist “we don’t do it that way” approach that had bedevilled railway infrastructure changes this century.
The Devon bosses would have had trains running on the chord for less than £10m.

There are no buildings on the line of the chord. I believe it is on chalk - brilliant for drainage. No public access to the land on either side of the chord to get in the way. And a route & its underlying ground that was used, tested & compacted by trains for, I guess, at least 70years before.

But I am sure the defeatists can list all sorts of problems, rather than finding ways to remove them.

In the meantime, for just a few minutes more, change at Ely and at no additional capital or revenue expenditure

 

[camflyer]

In the meantime, for just a few minutes more, change at Ely and at no additional capital or revenue expenditure

Newmarket to Ely is only 12 miles direct an can be driven in 15-20 mins (depending on if you get stuck behind a horsebox). By bus it's about an hour on a stopping service. By rail it can be well over an hour via Cambridge or Bury depending on the connections.

 

[eastdyke]

Newmarket to Ely is only 12 miles direct an can be driven in 15-20 mins (depending on if you get stuck behind a horsebox). By bus it's about an hour on a stopping service. By rail it can be well over an hour via Cambridge or Bury depending on the connections.

The hourly Stagecoach #12 takes around 33 minutes from centre to centre not 'about an hour'. And with the added benefit of stopping at many more places for pax to start and end journeys. Both Soham and Newmarket are rather 'longitudinal' places and in particular Newmarket station is not at all near to the centre!

By train Cambridge and further afield is quite do-able via Ely, the problem being mainly the 2 hourly frequency for the forseeable.

 

[Bald Rick]

With respect, that is the defeatist attitude that infects the railway.

With respect, I was involved in Okehampton. Which railways have you built recently?

With respect. @alf , perhaps you could show us some examples of where @Bald Rick has be wrong over the years?

Ask Mrs BR. An extensive list. As I say to her, there’s no point me keeping track of when I’ve been wrong, when she remembers it all

 

[ashkeba]

With respect. @alf , perhaps you could show us some examples of where @Bald Rick has be wrong over the years?

Not many railways have opened recently and even fewer, possibly none, where Bald Rick had spoken against them, so what chance is there to discoverer examples?

 

[GB]

It's not only the bus driver. Aircraft crews do not need to train and "sign" for every airport they use, whose arrangements are far more varied than the standard signalling and layout on the railway. And of course the train driver is quite happy to drive their car at end of shift down roads they have not used before, absolutely without issue. Even driving their family on holiday to the South of France.

Cars a driven on line of sight, providing you can see there is no reason why you can't drive to Timbuctoo. What is "standard" signalling and layout on the railway? The only standard I see is the signalling aspects and their sequence, not the space between signals, distance between stations, line speed, speed restrictions or hazards etc, none of which are either present or compare to an airlines route. Pilots might not need to "sign" an airport (though I am sure there are some where special training is required) but every airport has a set of approach and missed approach procedures that will be studied during the pilots briefing and during the flight if necessary. Pilots also have a magnitude of navigational aides and ATC to help. Pilots are also required to be trained and certified current for Cat 3 airports. Pilots certainly don't fly or land blind as you suggest.

 

[HST43257]

I would agree with the Newmarket to Soham curve, and the aim would be for at least one of the Thameslink semifasts (fast from SVG) to do this route, plus perhaps 1tph East West Rail. Major housebuilding programmes to go with that in the Dullingham/Newmarket/Soham area perhaps?

 

[Tobbes]

With respect, I was involved in Okehampton. Which railways have you built recently?




Ask Mrs BR. An extensive list. As I say to her, there’s no point me keeping track of when I’ve been wrong, when she remembers it all

At least we've not misplaced our sense of humour.....!

The rationale for the new Newmarket curve and substantial enhancements on CBG-Newmarket line to serve the new town at Mildenhall. Not even I'm suggesting reopening the Mildenhall on the old route via Quy.... even if it's more direct!

 

[PTR 444]

If the March - Wisbech branch ever reopens, I think it would make sense to extend a Cambridge - Newmarket - Ely service there. Trains could also call at a reopened Cherry Hinton and Fulbourn.

 

[JonathanH]

I would agree with the Newmarket to Soham curve, and the aim would be for at least one of the Thameslink semifasts (fast from SVG) to do this route, plus perhaps 1tph East West Rail. Major housebuilding programmes to go with that in the Dullingham/Newmarket/Soham area perhaps?

How many houses are being built?

The demand is unlikely to be commensurate with the use of a 12-car 700, even before it is noted that there aren't really enough of them.

If the March - Wisbech branch ever reopens, I think it would make sense to extend a Cambridge - Newmarket - Ely service there. Trains could also call at a reopened Cherry Hinton and Fulbourn.

That is a long way round to get to the primary regional destination.

 

[HST43257]

How many houses are being built?

No, I’m suggesting that there should be houses built if there’s a decent enough London service.

The demand is unlikely to be commensurate with the use of a 12-car 700, even before it is noted that there aren't really enough of them.

I’m not suggesting by any means that they’d fill a 12 car train, but good connections to London and Cambridge are surely worth having and could get a decent bit of demand?

 

[Class 170101]

There is a thread somewhere, and a very interesting one. So yes it has been done to death. Unsure as to whether potential costs were discussed. But there were diagrams of a very elaborate in and out two train one platform system for Newmarket station.

A Station in the South west (is it the Falmouth branch?) already has a layout as described.

 

[swt_passenger]

A Station in the South west (is it the Falmouth branch?) already has a layout as described.

I think Penryn is the station you’re thinking of.

 

[Jim Jehosofat]

All this talk of Ely to Newmarket reminds of waiting for a train to Norwich in the late 90s. Little Legs on platform one shouts across to Mystic Mick on platform 2 "When's the next train to Newmarket?" "1966!" is the reply. "What sort of time is that?" responds Little Legs, to which Mystic Mick replies "Its not a time, it was a year!"

 

[RT4038]

All this talk of Ely to Newmarket reminds of waiting for a train to Norwich in the late 90s. Little Legs on platform one shouts across to Mystic Mick on platform 2 "When's the next train to Newmarket?" "1966!" is the reply. "What sort of time is that?" responds Little Legs, to which Mystic Mick replies "Its not a time, it was a year!"

They weren't exactly frequent then, either!

 

[camflyer]

The hourly Stagecoach #12 takes around 33 minutes from centre to centre not 'about an hour'. And with the added benefit of stopping at many more places for pax to start and end journeys. Both Soham and Newmarket are rather 'longitudinal' places and in particular Newmarket station is not at all near to the centre!

I don't think I've ever done it in 33 mins. The #12 timetable has the service at around 55 mins from bus station to bus station with the last service from Ely being 18:05 Monday to Saturday which is next to useless for commuting or a day out.

https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com/Timetables/East/CAMBRIDGE/CA%20-%2012%20-%20AUG%202021.pdf

Newmarket has always suffered for being a virtual enclave of Suffolk inside of Cambs so cross-border bus services to Cambridge and Ely are minimal at best. If Newmarket was fully inside Cambs then I'm sure bus services would be better and similar to what Cambourne and other Cambridge satellite towns benefit from.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Is Soham going to open tomorrow? What's the latest?

 

[camflyer]

Is Soham going to open tomorrow? What's the latest?

Geoff Marshall visits

 

[70014IronDuke]

Geoff Marshall visits

Nice report. But I can't help noticing how "un-human" the new station is - all those horrible steel fences to keep naughty humans in line. Those must have contributed to the £££ opening cost too.

And that 'building' on the platform - surely should be in the Guinness Book of Records as the "World's Most Minimalist Excuse for a Station Passenger 'shelter' "?

Has anyone actually checked the passenger usage of Soham since Monday?

 

[camflyer]

Nice report. But I can't help noticing how "un-human" the new station is - all those horrible steel fences to keep naughty humans in line. Those must have contributed to the £££ opening cost too.

Would look better with some landscaping to hide the metal fences but that can wait for the spring.

 

[Meglodon 5]

we should just throw some of the HSTs on the Peterborough - Ipswich line. This would allow for faster trains and more services. After all there's about 30 HSTs just sitting in Ely Papworth, so why not?

 

[43096]

we should just throw some of the HSTs on the Peterborough - Ipswich line. This would allow for faster trains and more services.

It wouldn't.

After all there's about 30 HSTs just sitting in Ely Papworth, so why not?

There's not. By by reckoning it's 27 power cars and about 40 trailers there. Why not? Plenty of reasons... they've been out of use for some time, not PRM compliant etc etc. I could go on here, but I can't decide if you're being serious in suggesting it.

 

[Tobbes]

Back to the topic....

It's great to see Soham finally open. But as has previously been done to death, it will take sorting out Ely, Haughley Junction, double track, and ideally electrification and the reinstitution of the Newmarket West Curve (along with redoubling Cambs-Newmarket) for this section to be really useful, especially when the new town is built on the site of RAF Mildenhall. But from small acorns....

 

[Western Lord]

Back to the topic....

It's great to see Soham finally open. But as has previously been done to death, it will take sorting out Ely, Haughley Junction, double track, and ideally electrification and the reinstitution of the Newmarket West Curve (along with redoubling Cambs-Newmarket) for this section to be really useful, especially when the new town is built on the site of RAF Mildenhall. But from small acorns....

I thought that the USAF had decided that it was staying at RAF Mildenhall.

 

[Tobbes]

I thought that the USAF had decided that it was staying at RAF Mildenhall.

I'd missed that - very many thanks!