Overshot station scam

[Antman]

Then there are threads asking why RPI's and guards treat everybody as a suspected criminal...

Such a cynical approach

 

[Flamingo]

I'll tell you a story...
A few years ago a colleague had a lady board his train. She was of African origin, very smartly dressed, sitting in 1st class. When asked to produce her ticket, she made a great show of searching for her ticket, getting more and more distraught. She told him she had just purchased a First Class single for cash from the last (barriered) station. She told him exactly how much it had cost. He accepted her story, and even printed out a "journey-plan" for that train, signing it and writing on it she had lost her ticket so she would get through the barriers at Paddington.

A week or two later my colleague was on another train, and leaving the same station - you guessed it, same lady, same story. She denied ever having been on that train before, said she was only two days in the country and could prove it, and accused my colleague of being racist for accusing her. As luck would have it there was a BTP officer on board. They came and spoke to the woman, then told my colleague that there must be a mistake, the woman seemed genuine. My colleague stuck to his guns and insisted uniformed officers met the train and removed the woman.

On further questioning at the station, the woman went from very loud and vocal to saying nothing, and turned out to have several passports and credit cards on her, in a variety of names.

Scam artists do look very convincing. They make a living from looking convincing and plausible.

 

[timbo58]

Indeed.

When travelling to work from Chippenham as a RP manager at one time (plain clothes of course) I wanted to use the nearest loo which was firmly 'in use' until some time passed. As we approached Reading (unbarriered at that time) a smartly dressed gent exited the toilet a little too furtively for my liking. (looking up & down the train carefully etc). As I left at Reading also I whipped my warrant card out and asked for his ticket, 'oh...... I need to buy one....the guard didn't come round -I joined at Swindon'.

Needless to say it ended up with a full on interview and he'd been in the bog since Bristol.

The moral of this is to confirm in my 15 years experience that tramps/scruffy oiks etc don't usually try to fare dodge as they are way too conspicuous to do it, it's the ones in suits that have a 'system' to avoid payment that are the real thieves!

 

[plastictaffy]

Personal experience tells me that's it's usually those with the bowler hat and umbrella that will try to pull the wool over our eyes. Wandered into first class some time back on an xx46 off Euston. (Fast to Milton Keynes) Chap sat there, looked like, well, not to put too fine a point on it, an absolute tramp, and smelt like one. The can of Special Brew in his hand had, for me, clinched the deal. I asked him for a ticket, fully expecting an excuse to be rattled off. Quite embarrassingly, he produced a Rugby - all Zones tube first class Gold Card. That surprised me. The moral of the story?? Take nothing at face value.

Timbo - was he prosecuted?

 

[timbo58]

I believe he was reported but settled out of court for a hefty sum.
I did ensure I kept a weather eye out for him as I commuted pretty much the same trains Mon-Friday.

I did start hanging my inspectors shield round my neck and clipping my badge on every day & start doing a full check in 1st leaving Chippenham (with the Senior conductors permission naturally) on a regular basis and the amount of scrotes trying to go free Chippenham-Swindon (in 1st too!) was amazing in those days.
After reporting the issue a couple of times we got an ATE (assistant ticket examiner) allocated.

On the way back of course I'd make a beeline for anyone I'd seen on the platform in Reading, equally enlightening the amount who thought they'd have a free upgrade home to Didcot or Swindon.
Unfortunately after a few months the regulars used to clock my face!

It was something we always used to stress to ticketing staff that if you're doing the same train regularly, then be creative with ticket checks, despatch from the rear and go immediately up 2 coaches and start there or do A/C/E/G and then H/F/D/B just to catch out anyone who thinks that you won't get to 'them in time' or that by predicting your ticket checks they can move to prevent you challenging them.
It's the old ways that are tried and tested.

I lost count of the number of times a 'barrister/solicitor' made a song & dance about paying a full fare on board when caught without a ticket, one joker after telling me he was a senior barrister very loudly (in the quiet coach too!) and gaining himself a willing audience on a very busy train that 'he hadn't agreed to the bylaws and couldn't be bound by them', was asked by me 'do you know the difference between an explicit and implied contract' and 'if you don't I would like to see some proof of your legal qualifications since even a 1st year law student knows that ' -he went all red in the face and decided to pay up. A lady further up the coach asked me what I'd meant, so I said (a little too loudly unfortunately -silly me!) The Gent had actually formed an implied contract with the railways when he entered the station with the intent of travel and therefore despite there being no 'explicit' contract (i.e. a railcard or ticket) he was still legally bound.

She thought that was awfully good.

 

[steamybrian]

Many years ago I used to undertake potholing and caving weekends in Yorkshire and Derbyshire. After finishing on Sunday night I would do a quick change of clothes but I would still be scruffly dressed and wearing muddy wellington boots. On my homeward rail journey on a London bound train I would invariably get a first class compartment to myself. It was quite a joy to see the TTI face when I produced a first class BR free pass.

 

[timbo58]

Reminded me that there was lovely but slightly scruffy old chap who travelled regularly from Moreton in Marsh to Paddington on the early HST and one day we were short formed and when I got to coach G, P**** H****s the well known right wing journo was sat comfortably and delivered up a standard class season ticket. I told him unforntuarely it can't be upgraded and he demanded to be allowed to stay in 1st due to no seats in standard.

He'd made no effort to find one in standard to be fair, but his attitude stank frankly so I turfed him out, despite protests he'd tell all his friends in high places.

I was worried until the regular 1st class scruffy user who'd been sat opposite pulled a shiny little 'medal' on a chain out and told me - 'here -take my badge number -I heard every word and will support you if that ar*e reports you for doing an excellent job by the way'.

I laughed out loud at that -the medal was of course a first class retired BR directors pass token!

I didn't hear anymore about it though and H******* never tried it again on my trains anyway!

 

[matt_world2004]

Isn't there a story of Alan Bennet (Or another literary author) whose father worked for British rail therefore he was entitled to free first class travel all over the British network as a boy. He would get snobby passengers come up to him and go "You know you are sitting in first class boy" to which he would reply "I know" and went back to reading his comic.

What a life of adventure it must have been for a kid to have an all lines first class rail pass.

 

[Flamingo]

What a life of adventure it must have been for a kid to have an all lines first class rail pass.

And what a shock to the system when he turned 18...

 

[PermitToTravel]

I think one or two forum members have posted about that feeling when they lost their first class child PRIVs

 

[trentside]

It was something we always used to stress to ticketing staff that if you're doing the same train regularly, then be creative with ticket checks, despatch from the rear and go immediately up 2 coaches and start there or do A/C/E/G and then H/F/D/B just to catch out anyone who thinks that you won't get to 'them in time' or that by predicting your ticket checks they can move to prevent you challenging them.
It's the old ways that are tried and tested.

This is something I do regularly on certain trains, especially catching people doing one stop hops in the peaks. On one of our jobs, it just so happens we have a conductor passing back on the same train, so it's an easy thing to have them do the dispatch with you starting checking from the front the minute the doors close. Sometimes you'll get quite a few, who've taken advantage of the fact it's virtually impossible to get them all on the morning trains, even with an ATE/RPO. If I have the job a few days in a row then I'll mix it up and start from the back the next day, or the middle - keep them on their toes.

I also have certain trains earmarked as "problem". It's not ever huge in the area I work in, but I seem to have ticketing issues on these trains more often than not and therefore I take a full on ticket check. These trains also tend to get minimal discretion, as it's a case of once bitten twice shy.

 

[Flamingo]

This is something I do regularly on certain trains, especially catching people doing one stop hops in the peaks. On one of our jobs, it just so happens we have a conductor passing back on the same train, so it's an easy thing to have them do the dispatch with you starting checking from the front the minute the doors close. Sometimes you'll get quite a few, who've taken advantage of the fact it's virtually impossible to get them all on the morning trains, even with an ATE/RPO. If I have the job a few days in a row then I'll mix it up and start from the back the next day, or the middle - keep them on their toes.

I also have certain trains earmarked as "problem". It's not ever huge in the area I work in, but I seem to have ticketing issues on these trains more often than not and therefore I take a full on ticket check. These trains also tend to get minimal discretion, as it's a case of once bitten twice shy.

There are certain trains where "My dog ate my ticket" or "They let me through the barrier" doesn't get far. I do like working trains usually worked by other depots, as an alternative approach can have great results on some of them.

 

[trentside]

There are certain trains where "My dog ate my ticket" or "They let me through the barrier" doesn't get far. I do like working trains usually worked by other depots, as an alternative approach can have great results on some of them.

It can be quite surprising can't it? I must admit I also have a habit of going through after barriered stations that a significant majority don't bother with. Results can be mixed, but it's always nice to walk into a carriage and hear someone sigh and say "Oh, it's him"!

 

[Flamingo]

I've had people get off the train again when they have seen me!

"They don't have to like you, they just have to fear you"

 

[trentside]

"They don't have to like you, they just have to fear you"

I'm so tempted to put that as my signature.

 

[tsr]

I do like spot checks. And the assumption of "Guard won't come through, he's six coaches away" is always amusing when followed shortly by "Tickets please" on a 10-minute-long approach to the terminus where, of course, there is (usually) no exact dispatch position to imminently need to get to...

 

[timbo58]

Yep, VERY satisfying to suddenly appear from 'the bunk' on an HST (as was!) c/w machine after pulling out of the platform at temple meads en route to Bath and seeing them leap out of occupied 1st class seats in F.

'calm down ladies & gents, I've already seen you sat down so make yourself comfortable for the the next 12 minutes as I want to see all passes whatever their colour......'

 

[ScotGG]

I'll tell you a story...
A few years ago a colleague had a lady board his train. She was of African origin, very smartly dressed, sitting in 1st class. When asked to produce her ticket, she made a great show of searching for her ticket, getting more and more distraught. She told him she had just purchased a First Class single for cash from the last (barriered) station. She told him exactly how much it had cost. He accepted her story, and even printed out a "journey-plan" for that train, signing it and writing on it she had lost her ticket so she would get through the barriers at Paddington.

A week or two later my colleague was on another train, and leaving the same station - you guessed it, same lady, same story. She denied ever having been on that train before, said she was only two days in the country and could prove it, and accused my colleague of being racist for accusing her. As luck would have it there was a BTP officer on board. They came and spoke to the woman, then told my colleague that there must be a mistake, the woman seemed genuine. My colleague stuck to his guns and insisted uniformed officers met the train and removed the woman.

On further questioning at the station, the woman went from very loud and vocal to saying nothing, and turned out to have several passports and credit cards on her, in a variety of names.

Scam artists do look very convincing. They make a living from looking convincing and plausible.

As someone who has worked in an area with quite a few west Africans and come across numerous scams and frauds this does not surprise me at all. Seen similar a lot. No doubt some will accuse you of racism but believe me it's real and not uncommon. It shouldn't be a surprise that some people from some of the most fraudulent countries on earth then bring that attitude over. I saw it so many times, and our area where I worked was the worst in the entire UK for it after the west African population grew quickly after 2000.

Sadly many pull out the race card like you witnessed and get away with it. Well done to your colleague for sticking to their guns. Otherwise fraud just increases and people who play by the rules get increasingly frustrated which causes more problems in the long run.

EDIT: Before anyone comes along and says it happens everywhere, well yes of course, but it's the scale of it that's the problem. As noted earlier in the thread, with a transient population fines in a distant date do not work in many instances. Have to look at instant fines.

 

[Agent_c]

I don't think it has anything to do with "Africans" per se... Just that people who are smart and dishonest will use any tool to get what they want, and those in a minority group have the extra tool of crying "discrimination" that those in the majority don't.

I must say however I am enjoying reading these tales of catching people red handed. Are there any books or blogs with a large collection of similar anecdotes I can look at?

 

[timbo58]

Mind you the race card sometimes backfires.....

We had a red hot inspector manager (he was our chief 'in court' inspector too) at Reading and after a gent accused me of 'you wouldn't have stopped me if I'd been white' line, I passed him onto my Jamaican colleague' with the words...'oops! I might have made a mistake when I questioned you - he won't!' and he didn't...

 

[Flamingo]

My favourite was my colleague checking tickets who, when greeted with "You're racist, you're picking on us because we're Irish" by a couple of Travellers, replied in his Dublin accent "So how does that work then?"...

 

[causton]

Had two people today at the barriers "We got on the wrong train, we meant to go to Wolverhampton not Watford, they told us the wrong train at New Street" (the ticket was from a station further north than Birmingham so they were already wrong in going to Birmingham New Street!) - they said they were going out for a cigarette and would come back and buy a single to Wolverhampton once they got some money out. As it was so busy, the barrier staff had to let them go, but guess what as well, they had one adult and one child ticket and both were well over 16! They claimed the "Ticket lady sold us a wrong ticket" when I could clearly tell it was from a machine... could tell they bought a ticket to get onto a train, went on a Virgin straight here, and will go back for free when all the barriers are open later and they probably won't be checked on the VT back!

 

[Flamingo]

Had two people today at the barriers "We got on the wrong train, we meant to go to Wolverhampton not Watford, they told us the wrong train at New Street" (the ticket was from a station further north than Birmingham so they were already wrong in going to Birmingham New Street!) - they said they were going out for a cigarette and would come back and buy a single to Wolverhampton once they got some money out. As it was so busy, the barrier staff had to let them go, but guess what as well, they had one adult and one child ticket and both were well over 16! They claimed the "Ticket lady sold us a wrong ticket" when I could clearly tell it was from a machine... could tell they bought a ticket to get onto a train, went on a Virgin straight here, and will go back for free when all the barriers are open later and they probably won't be checked on the VT back!

There's never an RPI when you want one...

 

[Searle]

As someone who has worked in an area with quite a few west Africans and come across numerous scams and frauds this does not surprise me at all. Seen similar a lot. No doubt some will accuse you of racism but believe me it's real and not uncommon. It shouldn't be a surprise that some people from some of the most fraudulent countries on earth then bring that attitude over. I saw it so many times, and our area where I worked was the worst in the entire UK for it after the west African population grew quickly after 2000.

Sadly many pull out the race card like you witnessed and get away with it. Well done to your colleague for sticking to their guns. Otherwise fraud just increases and people who play by the rules get increasingly frustrated which causes more problems in the long run.

EDIT: Before anyone comes along and says it happens everywhere, well yes of course, but it's the scale of it that's the problem. As noted earlier in the thread, with a transient population fines in a distant date do not work in many instances. Have to look at instant fines.

enlighten me where you got that from then please

 

[rdeez]

I find that gateline staff either accept anything (the best example is Birmingham New St [BHM] accepting a bite card!) ..

This is so often the case that when once, some time ago, I was stopped at said gateline and asked to produce my railcard, I was momentarily stunned and could only stare at her for a moment before coming to my senses and producing it...

Once, when I was travelling using an m-ticket, I thought I'd got the ticket displaying on my phone when in fact it was displaying the Facebook app...which I only realised afterwards, after having been waved through.

 

[krus_aragon]

Flamingo, Timbo, Trentside, Taffy (and any others who's names I can't immediately recall): I'd like to thank the lot of you for the wonderfully entertaining anecdotes you've shared on this thread and others. It's clear to me that you go about your work in a conscientious and diligent manner, and use your wisdom and experience to treat novices and gamesters fairly and appropriately in this epic game of cat and mouse.

I rather regret that I no longer live in South Wales where I might happen to meet some of you, but I can imagine that we may have crossed paths there at some point in the last five years.

Regardless, keep up the good work, and please do continue to let us know about the good times and the bad.

 

[trentside]

Flamingo, Timbo, Trentside, Taffy (and any others who's names I can't immediately recall): I'd like to thank the lot of you for the wonderfully entertaining anecdotes you've shared on this thread and others. It's clear to me that you go about your work in a conscientious and diligent manner, and use your wisdom and experience to treat novices and gamesters fairly and appropriately in this epic game of cat and mouse.

I rather regret that I no longer live in South Wales where I might happen to meet some of you, but I can imagine that we may have crossed paths there at some point in the last five years.

Regardless, keep up the good work, and please do continue to let us know about the good times and the bad.

Thanks krus_aragon - it's nice to know such contributions are appreciated.

Just to add to my previous post. I actually worked the train I referred to this week, and didn't find anyone attempt to get a freebie to the next stop at all. In fact, with it being half term it was far quieter than normal and I got through the entire train before the first stop (<5 minutes away). The fires aren't apparently burning so brightly this week.

I did get a "My mum's meeting me with my ticket at the next stop" earlier this week too, but he ended up with a UPFN and disappeared exactly as expected at the stop he claimed his mum was joining the train at. He was already looking scared, as I'd mentioned the NRCoC in my pre-departure announcement in relation to purchasing tickets onboard.

 

[Flamingo]

I don't know why, but that story really irritates me. It's the one excuse that REALLY takes me for a mug! I had one of them a few weeks ago, who was very dis-chuffed to be met at Reading by an RPI, instead of getting a freebee to Swindon.

 

[sarahj]

I don't know why, but that story really irritates me. It's the one excuse that REALLY takes me for a mug! I had one of them a few weeks ago, who was very dis-chuffed to be met at Reading by an RPI, instead of getting a freebee to Swindon.

Had one of them a few weeks ago, mate meeting me at St Leonards with the ticket.etc etc. Just about to throw him off when a punter pops up and offers to pay the fare. Yep, ok by me. And sure enough, when we got to SLQ, the kid just walks off the platform and away. No mate (of course).

It just becomes a joke, 'oh my third cousin twice removed is meeting me at so and so'. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Flamingo]

Had one of them a few weeks ago, mate meeting me at St Leonards with the ticket.etc etc. Just about to throw him off when a punter pops up and offers to pay the fare. Yep, ok by me. And sure enough, when we got to SLQ, the kid just walks off the platform and away. No mate (of course).

It just becomes a joke, 'oh my third cousin twice removed is meeting me at so and so'. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I just can't understand why people do this!