peter50000
Member
- Joined
- 20 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 5
Hello,
I recently had an issue with showing a train ticket on a train, because i didnt pick up all parts from the printing machine in a rush to board the train.
I've sent off an appeal showing evidence that i bought the ticket through credit card statement but they are still refusing my appeal. I'm quite frustrated as they lady on the train who issued our penality told us that there wouldnt be a problem as long as i could evidence that I had paid for the ticket.
Also i have paid for 2 return tickets and already 1 penalty fare of 20 when all i wanted was two singles..
Can anyone advise me if I am in the wrong here or if i should pursue the appeal further?
Here are the full letters from me and in return
from me;
I am writing to appeal against the penalty fare enclosed in this letter. The train we boarded was on the 5th of july and if memory serves correctly it picked us up at 12.45pm (1 minute past the scheduled time of 12.44pm). From Royston, herts, destination London kings cross.
My partner and I arrived at the station late and in a rush I thought I had bought 2 single tickets to London from the ticket vending machine we picked up the 2 tickets from the machine and quickly boarded the train which pulled up as the machine printed them.
When the ticket lady approached us and asked for the tickets we noticed that somehow we did not have 2 single tickets to London, but one, two part return ticket to London! (one out and one rtn ticket as per the scanned ticket attachment).
As I had selected return by mistake and not single we had only picked up two tickets, where infact there would have been 4 tickets for us to pick up (2 must have been left in the station ticket machine). This left us with only one ticket for the direction we were travelling in and therefore we incurred a penalty fare for not being able to provide evidence, at the time of the receipt or proof of purchase from the credit card machine.
Once home and after a couple of days I was able to confirm the amount of £29.00 had been charged to my account (please see credit card statement also attached). The price of 2 return tickets to London from Cambridge on that day.
I was told that if I provided evidence and wrote to this address that a refund would be issued.
in reply
Thank you for your correspondence, received by this office on 17-Jul-2015
Re:
The Penalty Fares Rules work in conjunction with the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (NRCOC). Both state that where the facility exists at the origin station passengers must buy the correct ticket for their entire journey before joining the train. Penalty Fare warning notices are displayed at all Penalty Fare stations advising rail users
of the necessity to produce a valid ticket for inspection on request and of the consequences for failing to do so.
Appeal decisions are made in accordance with a Government approved Code of Practice (COP). A copy of the Penalty Fare Rules, NRCOC and approved COP are available online .
I understand you required two single tickets but that you inadvertently selected two return tickets from the ticket vending machine. Consequently, the two single tickets you believed you were retrieving from the dispenser turned out to be both parts of one return ticket, which unfortunately meant that one of you boarded the train without a ticket.
In accordance with the Conditions of Carriage, the safekeeping of a ticket is the passengers responsibility. With the exception of some season tickets, mislaid, lost, discarded or stolen tickets will not be replaced, nor will any of their cost be refunded. The NRCOC explains the passenger's rights in relation to any refunds for unused tickets.
When requested by staff of any train company or its agents, passengers must hand over for inspection a valid ticket and any accompanying photocard or Railcard. If not, they will be treated as having joined the train without a ticket and may be liable to pay a penalty fare.
A receipt or proof of payment is not a ticket, is not valid for travel and unfortunately cannot be used to retrospectively cancel a penalty fare notice. Nor can a ticket which has been produced for inspection after having travelled (with the exception of a season ticket). Since a valid ticket could not be produced for inspection on request at the time of travel on this occasion, a penalty fare is due.
With that in mind, I regret to advise that your appeal has been unsuccessful. Attached is a statement provided by RPSS. An amount of £20.80 is currently outstanding and should be paid immediately to avoid further action or charges. Payment may be made with the appropriate credit/debit card online. When paying online, please ensure you enter the correct notice prefix and notice number from the notice itself. You can also pay by phone Mon-Fri from 06:00 to 22:00 on 0871 559 2997. Calls are charged at 10ppm plus your phone company's access charge. Alternatively, you can send a cheque or postal order to RPSS, PO Box 89, Portsmouth, Hants, PO1 1EG, attached to a copy of this letter. It is important to make immediate settlement to avoid incurring administration charges because the lodging of an appeal does not suspend the debt recovery process.
I recently had an issue with showing a train ticket on a train, because i didnt pick up all parts from the printing machine in a rush to board the train.
I've sent off an appeal showing evidence that i bought the ticket through credit card statement but they are still refusing my appeal. I'm quite frustrated as they lady on the train who issued our penality told us that there wouldnt be a problem as long as i could evidence that I had paid for the ticket.
Also i have paid for 2 return tickets and already 1 penalty fare of 20 when all i wanted was two singles..
Can anyone advise me if I am in the wrong here or if i should pursue the appeal further?
Here are the full letters from me and in return
from me;
I am writing to appeal against the penalty fare enclosed in this letter. The train we boarded was on the 5th of july and if memory serves correctly it picked us up at 12.45pm (1 minute past the scheduled time of 12.44pm). From Royston, herts, destination London kings cross.
My partner and I arrived at the station late and in a rush I thought I had bought 2 single tickets to London from the ticket vending machine we picked up the 2 tickets from the machine and quickly boarded the train which pulled up as the machine printed them.
When the ticket lady approached us and asked for the tickets we noticed that somehow we did not have 2 single tickets to London, but one, two part return ticket to London! (one out and one rtn ticket as per the scanned ticket attachment).
As I had selected return by mistake and not single we had only picked up two tickets, where infact there would have been 4 tickets for us to pick up (2 must have been left in the station ticket machine). This left us with only one ticket for the direction we were travelling in and therefore we incurred a penalty fare for not being able to provide evidence, at the time of the receipt or proof of purchase from the credit card machine.
Once home and after a couple of days I was able to confirm the amount of £29.00 had been charged to my account (please see credit card statement also attached). The price of 2 return tickets to London from Cambridge on that day.
I was told that if I provided evidence and wrote to this address that a refund would be issued.
in reply
Thank you for your correspondence, received by this office on 17-Jul-2015
Re:
The Penalty Fares Rules work in conjunction with the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (NRCOC). Both state that where the facility exists at the origin station passengers must buy the correct ticket for their entire journey before joining the train. Penalty Fare warning notices are displayed at all Penalty Fare stations advising rail users
of the necessity to produce a valid ticket for inspection on request and of the consequences for failing to do so.
Appeal decisions are made in accordance with a Government approved Code of Practice (COP). A copy of the Penalty Fare Rules, NRCOC and approved COP are available online .
I understand you required two single tickets but that you inadvertently selected two return tickets from the ticket vending machine. Consequently, the two single tickets you believed you were retrieving from the dispenser turned out to be both parts of one return ticket, which unfortunately meant that one of you boarded the train without a ticket.
In accordance with the Conditions of Carriage, the safekeeping of a ticket is the passengers responsibility. With the exception of some season tickets, mislaid, lost, discarded or stolen tickets will not be replaced, nor will any of their cost be refunded. The NRCOC explains the passenger's rights in relation to any refunds for unused tickets.
When requested by staff of any train company or its agents, passengers must hand over for inspection a valid ticket and any accompanying photocard or Railcard. If not, they will be treated as having joined the train without a ticket and may be liable to pay a penalty fare.
A receipt or proof of payment is not a ticket, is not valid for travel and unfortunately cannot be used to retrospectively cancel a penalty fare notice. Nor can a ticket which has been produced for inspection after having travelled (with the exception of a season ticket). Since a valid ticket could not be produced for inspection on request at the time of travel on this occasion, a penalty fare is due.
With that in mind, I regret to advise that your appeal has been unsuccessful. Attached is a statement provided by RPSS. An amount of £20.80 is currently outstanding and should be paid immediately to avoid further action or charges. Payment may be made with the appropriate credit/debit card online. When paying online, please ensure you enter the correct notice prefix and notice number from the notice itself. You can also pay by phone Mon-Fri from 06:00 to 22:00 on 0871 559 2997. Calls are charged at 10ppm plus your phone company's access charge. Alternatively, you can send a cheque or postal order to RPSS, PO Box 89, Portsmouth, Hants, PO1 1EG, attached to a copy of this letter. It is important to make immediate settlement to avoid incurring administration charges because the lodging of an appeal does not suspend the debt recovery process.
lol On a serious note though, I am sure no one on here likes it when they see or hear of customers being told incorrect things.
