Penalty fare ignored and letter received from debt collection agency

[ATW Alex 101]

This advice is for a friend and not myself, fortunately for me I have sense to pay a £0.90 fare to avoid these type of situations.

To make it easier I will put each sentence into a paragraph.

Basically, this guy was caught without a ticket by a Merseyrail RPI at Rock Ferry and as given a penalty fare of £20.

He was unable to pay it so he was given an invoice (or something like that where he can pay later).

He misplaced this letter and chose to ignore it, with the belief that Merseyrail would forget about it.

This happened in April.

Today received a letter from a debt collection agency wanting £60.39.

What is his best option? Simply pay it or is there anything else he can do?

I appreciate all help on his behalf and I will advise him per what I am given here. Thanks.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I would suggest that unless your friend's PF was issued incorrectly, then your friend should pay the amount outstanding.

 

[najaB]

This advice is for a friend and not myself, fortunately for me I have sense to pay a £0.90 fare to avoid these type of situations.

To make it easier I will put each sentence into a paragraph.

Basically, this guy was caught without a ticket by a Merseyrail RPI at Rock Ferry and as given a penalty fare of £20.

He was unable to pay it so he was given an invoice (or something like that where he can pay later).

He misplaced this letter and chose to ignore it, with the belief that Merseyrail would forget about it.

This happened in April.

Today received a letter from a debt collection agency wanting £60.39.

What is his best option? Simply pay it or is there anything else he can do?

I appreciate all help on his behalf and I will advise him per what I am given here. Thanks.

Pay it. Get on with life. It's not worth risking a prosecution over.

 

[Qwerty133]

Is this someone of your own age? (or under 18)

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Cheers for the reply's, I will pass this on. I can assure you this isn't me, I can provide a picture of the letter I was sent over Facebook via PM if you really want.

Qwerty-The guy is indeed under 18.

 

[richw]

Cheers for the reply's, I will pass this on. I can assure you this isn't me, I can provide a picture of the letter I was sent over Facebook via PM if you really want.

Qwerty-The guy is indeed under 18.

Is he over 16?

According to national rail enquiries a penalty fare can only be issued to somebody over 16 years age

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Nope he is 15.

 

[Merseysider]

Merseyrail are somewhat softer with their penalties on fare evasion than other TOCs, preferring to hand out PFs for single offences where possible rather than pushing for RoRA prosecution. This is not to say they don't take action where appropriate. Nevertheless, the issue isn't going to disappear and your friend should be grateful he/she has not been summonsed.

The amount stated should be paid and the fare paid in future. Merseyrail will be able to detect a second offence and may not be so lenient (offering an initial PF for £20 rather than pushing court action) second time round.

Unless there was no opportunity to buy a ticket (clerk absent etc) there is no excuse for not buying one.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

The letter was addressed to his parent BTW.

 

[furlong]

Is he over 16?

According to national rail enquiries a penalty fare can only be issued to somebody over 16 years age

Where does it say that?

As far as I know they can be issued to children (but with the default position being not to ask for payment on the spot).

 

[Qwerty133]

This was a link to the welsh version of a webpage by mistake, see below for English version of web page

 

[455driver]

from CAB http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/debt_w/young_people_money_and_consumer_rights.htm

is Merseyside in Wales?

 

[Qwerty133]

is Merseyside in Wales?

top sentence on that link is as follows "This information applies to England, Wales and Northern Ireland". Sorry for not noticing the link, when in an iPad which just displays the website.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
let's try this again.
From CAB http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/debt_e/young_people_money_and_consumer_rights.htm

As a child or young person, you cannot normally be taken to court for debt. This is because you cannot be legally held to a contract you make when you are under 18. However, there are some exceptions to this rule. You can be held legally responsible for any debts you run up to buy things that you need like food, shelter or clothing.

There may be other debts you can be held legally responsible for. If in doubt, consult an experienced adviser, for example, at a Citizens Advice Bureau. To search for details of your nearest CAB, including those that can give advice by e-mail, click on nearest CAB.

As a parent you are not usually under any obligation to pay the debts of your child. However, if you acted as a guarantor for a contract they entered into, you will be responsible for any debts under the agreement.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

What is his best option? Simply pay it or is there anything else he can do?

Pay it, as a properly incurred debt.

Or . . .

He can continue not to pay his debt, and watch the costs increase if he'd prefer to carry on doing that.

 

[DarloRich]

He should pay it. Quickly.

best case he contacts them, pleads poverty etc and gets a structured payment plan in place or worst case he pays it all now. Alternatively he can just ignore it and let things get worse. Lets ask his dad shall we …………….

 

[ATW Alex 101]

I told him to pay it and learn from it. Thanks for the prompt responses.

Hopefully this geezer will heed my advice and pay for tickets in the future even if it means he is £0.90 out of pocket.

 

[richw]

Where does it say that?

As far as I know they can be issued to children (but with the default position being not to ask for payment on the spot).

I saw it on national rail a while ago. I cant find the location now.

That is irrelevant though in the whole scheme of things.
The debt collection is addressed to his parents anyway so irrelevant, although legally the debt will be unenforceable as it was incurred by a minor, and was not to cover food, shelter or clothing. A minor can only be pursued for debt incurred on food, shelter or clothing. A parent cant be pursued but has no legal requirement to settle the debt.

I suggest a quick call to CAB as incurred by a minor. I'm a debt collector (civil debts) as a living and we are not legally allowed to pursue under 18s.

 

[455driver]

top sentence on that link is as follows "This information applies to England, Wales and Northern Ireland". Sorry for not noticing the link, when in an iPad which just displays the website.

Thanks for the clarification! thumbs up smillie

 

[island]

I saw it on national rail a while ago. I cant find the location now.

That is irrelevant though in the whole scheme of things.
The debt collection is addressed to his parents anyway so irrelevant, although legally the debt will be unenforceable as it was incurred by a minor, and was not to cover food, shelter or clothing. A minor can only be pursued for debt incurred on food, shelter or clothing. A parent cant be pursued but has no legal requirement to settle the debt.

I suggest a quick call to CAB as incurred by a minor. I'm a debt collector (civil debts) as a living and we are not legally allowed to pursue under 18s.

Failure to pay may in theory result in prosecution.

 

[richw]

Failure to pay may in theory result in prosecution.

Of course, but from the information we have been provided it has been referred to a civil debt collection company, and therefore as it is a minor who has incurred the debt is unenforceable. Hence my suggestion to speak with CAB.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Of course, but from the information we have been provided it has been referred to a civil debt collection company, and therefore as it is a minor who has incurred the debt is unenforceable. Hence my suggestion to speak with CAB.

Whilst the debt may be unenforceable, playing silly b*ggers could potentially result in the PF being cancelled and the TOC attempting a prosecution under Section 5(3) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 or Byelaw 18 instead, which would end up costing a lot more than £20...

 

[richw]

Whilst the debt may be unenforceable, playing silly b*ggers could potentially result in the PF being cancelled and the TOC attempting a prosecution under Section 5(3) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 or Byelaw 18 instead, which would end up costing a lot more than £20...

Hence suggesting CAB before any step is followed.

I'm not sure on how prosecuting a 15 year old though would be seen though.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

The letter did come with some wording I looked at twice and thought "that's a bit odd" and it went something like;

.....instead of summoning you to the magistrates where you could be fined and your name published in the local or national paper...

 

[PermitToTravel]

Hence suggesting CAB before any step is followed.

I'm not sure on how prosecuting a 15 year old though would be seen though.

Perfectly permissible, and not at all likely to garner the sympathy of the Daily Mail.

 

[island]

Yes, under-18s can be prosecuted in certain circumstances.

 

[jon0844]

Perfectly permissible, and not at all likely to garner the sympathy of the Daily Mail.

Even more reason to do it then!

 

[PermitToTravel]

Their sympathy to the criminal in question, I meant - I suspect that "Youths are bad" is higher up the list than "TOCs are bad"

 

[Qwerty133]

The letter did come with some wording I looked at twice and thought "that's a bit odd" and it went something like;

I'd be very surprised if it the name wasn't 'a 15 year old who can't be named for legal reasons'.