Pendolino the wrong way round

[boxy321]

This morning I got the 6:20 Pendolino from Euston to Birmingham at Coventry, and it was on time.

As we passed Birmingham Intl. things slowed right down and the manager announced we were being diverted north since a LM train had broken down at Stechford. We thus had a tour of north Brum via Aston and Perry Barr before reaching New St. about 30 mins late.

Didn't think at the time, but 1st class is now at the wrong end of the train for Euston, so what will they do about it, drive back round the loop? Will there be complaints on here about 1st class passengers walking through steerage to get to the doors at London?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It does occasionally happen. I indeed expect sending it into New St "the wrong way" on its next journey (which can be done without the massive runaround, if I recall correctly) is probably the easiest way to correct the problem.

 

[TheEdge]

Happens fairly often. Sometimes its just an inconvenience and a passenger annoyance, I imagine that would be true for 390s as its just a unit.

However when it (very rarely) happens on the GEML it causes all sorts of issues. DVT is in the wrong place, chucks dispatch process in the bin.

 

[najaB]

It does occasionally happen. I indeed expect sending it into New St "the wrong way" on its next journey (which can be done without the massive runaround, if I recall correctly) is probably the easiest way to correct the problem.

If it's heading up to Scotland they also use the Carstairs triangle to turn units.

 

[PHILIPE]

GWR HSTs get into reverse formation on a regular basis. They just carry on and usually get turned at the end of the day after completion of passenger service.
Unable to at Penzance, but it can be done at Plymouth, Paddington, Bristol and Swansea.

 

[jonesy3001]

They have these things called legs attached to there bodies i`m sure they can use them unless geeves is waiting on a scooter.

 

[boxy321]

They have these things called legs attached to there bodies i`m sure they can use them unless geeves is waiting on a scooter.

This train terminated at Brum so I don't know where or when it was heading next. It was a 9 coacher.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I do complain about this a bit but full credit to Wolves station today - the 1143 ex-Euston was shown as being in reverse formation on both the departures screen and individual platform CIS. Announcements were made to this effect to, and platform staff guided all of the people with reservation in coaches A-D down towards the south end of the station. In rolls the train (a 9-car 390 vice single 221), and it's in standard formation. Cue usual mass movement and faff as everybody tries to get back to where they'd normally board.

 

[AndrewE]

If it's heading up to Scotland they also use the Carstairs triangle to turn units.

In 10 years of travelling on the class 9 trains North to Edinburgh and Glasgow I have never experienced this... however I have learnt that a Pendolino in reverse formation is almost never shown on platform departure boards - including yesterday southbound from Edinburgh - resulting in wheelchair (and indeed all other) users at the wrong ends of the train all down the line. It results in delays at almost every station as all the passengers find that they are standing in the wrong place and rush along the platform to find the coach they are booked into.

I have been sworn at by a Virgin guard while running from one end of Warrington BQ to the other to get on a Full & Standing train - I replied that I was only trying to board my coach where their own system had told me to stand, if it was at the other end of the train that was hardly my fault!

 

[najaB]

In 10 years of travelling on the class 9 trains North to Edinburgh and Glasgow I have never experienced this...

There is (or at least used to be) an ECS move booked to do just this on a Friday night. It's because the last Edinburgh service forms the first Glasgow departure on Saturday so they use the triangle to turn the set so it's the right way around (if you want to be pedantic it's to avoid it ending up the wrong way round).

 

[louis97]

I do complain about this a bit but full credit to Wolves station today - the 1143 ex-Euston was shown as being in reverse formation on both the departures screen and individual platform CIS. Announcements were made to this effect to, and platform staff guided all of the people with reservation in coaches A-D down towards the south end of the station. In rolls the train (a 9-car 390 vice single 221), and it's in standard formation. Cue usual mass movement and faff as everybody tries to get back to where they'd normally board.

I have noticed Virgin are incredibly poor at having accurate formation information advertised, to say they have announcers at most stations who's job I presume is to deal with the CIS, it is a poor show. This issue is exacerbated by the fact the notes attached to trains on the screens are unique per station, and the stations don't seem to communicate the information between each other. I've seen a train with different formation at all three virgin stations we stopped at. They seem to rely heavily on internal messaging systems mentioning any short or reverse formations, which sometimes are not published and sometimes just not read by staff. It really is a shame sometimes, although some stations are better than others and you'll see formation information change a few minutes after the train is displayed on the platforms - normally from an 11 car to a 9 car!

 

[PHILIPE]

When GWR HSTs are in reverse formation, the fact is announced and shown on CIS also stating First Class will be at the rear or vice versa according to direction of travel. There are, as to be expected, occasions when this is not done.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I have noticed Virgin are incredibly poor at having accurate formation information advertised, to say they have announcers at most stations who's job I presume is to deal with the CIS, it is a poor show. This issue is exacerbated by the fact the notes attached to trains on the screens are unique per station, and the stations don't seem to communicate the information between each other. I've seen a train with different formation at all three virgin stations we stopped at. They seem to rely heavily on internal messaging systems mentioning any short or reverse formations, which sometimes are not published and sometimes just not read by staff. It really is a shame sometimes, although some stations are better than others and you'll see formation information change a few minutes after the train is displayed on the platforms - normally from an 11 car to a 9 car!

Indeed. They have got slightly better in recent times: I'm sure for a while the platform displays didn't differentiate between services being 9 or 11 -car 390s, or whether a 221 was double or not, but most now appear to: when my service on Friday night was an 11-car 390 vice double 221 it was displayed on the screens as such. Of course there are also now the useful graphics at Euston too. I do have to say though, the reverse formation carry on really annoys me though. For example, if you have a train leaving Glasgow in reverse formation that gives you well over two hours to convey that information to Wigan North Western etc. Yet time and time again, the first indication anyone has that it's back to front is when Coach A instead of Coach K (or vice versa) rolls past them first. It's really basic communication, all it takes is one Tyrell message or internal phone call or whatever to rectify it and save a fair amount of dwell time on-route: even if you can't get the displays to change at least have a member of platform crew walk down and inform passengers to swap positions. In light of today's experience I do hope it is some kind of new initiative to regularly display if a train is the wrong way around, but we'll have to see.

 

[louis97]

When GWR HSTs are in reverse formation, the fact is announced and shown on CIS also stating First Class will be at the rear or vice versa according to direction of travel. There are, as to be expected, occasions when this is not done.

Difference with GWR is the fact all CIS alterations go through the relevant controller, there is two - Thames Valley and West, they then deal with the HSS stations which fall within the area. The controller can then collate all communications regarding a train and provide a consistent message across the network. However on Virgin all the CIS is done at the station locally, I presume they do that because they have a dedicated person at most stations.

 

[DarloRich]

Happens fairly often. Sometimes its just an inconvenience and a passenger annoyance, I imagine that would be true for 390s as its just a unit.

However when it (very rarely) happens on the GEML it causes all sorts of issues. DVT is in the wrong place, chucks dispatch process in the bin.

where can you turn a set on the GE?

 

[dk1]

where can you turn a set on the GE?

Doesn't happen much anymore. Was more common when IC sets went to Harwich. These days anything needing turning is done at High Meads, Manningtree or Norwich.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I have noticed Virgin are incredibly poor at having accurate formation information advertised, to say they have announcers at most stations who's job I presume is to deal with the CIS, it is a poor show. This issue is exacerbated by the fact the notes attached to trains on the screens are unique per station, and the stations don't seem to communicate the information between each other. I've seen a train with different formation at all three virgin stations we stopped at. They seem to rely heavily on internal messaging systems mentioning any short or reverse formations, which sometimes are not published and sometimes just not read by staff. It really is a shame sometimes, although some stations are better than others and you'll see formation information change a few minutes after the train is displayed on the platforms - normally from an 11 car to a 9 car!

I strongly agree with your post Louis97- I've experienced this myself quite a few times. I remember a few months ago, waiting for a VT service at Preston, 9M50 06:52 Edinburgh to Euston via Birmingham- booked 2x221- I had seen on the Virgin Trains Journeycheck website that it was formed of 5 coaches instead of 10, quite soon after I had woken up that particular day- so a good hour or two before I reached the station. At Preston, not a hint of the service in question having a shorter than planned formation- no notes on the departure screens, nor on the platform information screens as it displayed the usual information about the calling points etc. Indeed it only said about coach A quiet coach/D shop/E First Class, with no mention of G,K or L, but, I overheard several understandably confused passengers, after I boarded the train at Preston, asking each other if they had seen one of the missing coaches. Why this couldn't have been mentioned on the information screens and/or the PA system at Preston, goodness knows.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really this requires some more integration (which is better than it used to be). Ideally the guard or driver should be able to add a note, which is automatically filtered for "customer service appropriateness" by someone and then goes onto a database for display on all relevant PIS.

 

[Lou92]

For me, worrying about the formation is the most stressful part of any journey I make (as described in a trip report from last year). Given that they manage only 17 stations, sending the needed info to each station should not be rocket science...

 

[RobShipway]

For me, worrying about the formation is the most stressful part of any journey I make (as described in a trip report from last year). Given that they manage only 17 stations, sending the needed info to each station should not be rocket science...

Anytime I travel from my local station which is Martins Heron on the Reading - London Waterloo, it always mentions as part of the PA announcements the length of the train whether it is 4, 5 or 8 cars.

If South West Trains can have their PA systems be able to tell passengers prior to the arrival of the train as to how many coaches the train has, then as stated previously in this thread why cannot this be done with the VWC PA system?

 

[boxy321]

In 10 years of travelling on the class 9 trains North to Edinburgh and Glasgow I have never experienced this... however I have learnt that a Pendolino in reverse formation is almost never shown on platform departure boards - including yesterday southbound from Edinburgh - resulting in wheelchair (and indeed all other) users at the wrong ends of the train all down the line. It results in delays at almost every station as all the passengers find that they are standing in the wrong place and rush along the platform to find the coach they are booked into.

I have been sworn at by a Virgin guard while running from one end of Warrington BQ to the other to get on a Full & Standing train - I replied that I was only trying to board my coach where their own system had told me to stand, if it was at the other end of the train that was hardly my fault!

I was on that very train last night (19:10) and there was no information presented to me at New St. until I saw the red seats and an 'A' on the carriage in front of me. During the ensuing chaos I also heard the platform announcer mention the wrong end for 1st even though the train had arrived.

People were still taking their seats and coming up from standard through the train at the airport!

 

[talltim]

Commuting between Chesterfield and Sheffield has made me used to trains being in no particular formation.
Depending on when I get up/when I finish work my train may be 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, or 9 coaches and may have no first class, first class at the rear, first class at the front, first class at the front and back, first class in the middle, first class at the front and middle or first class in the middle and back. Obviously its not just first that moves, the coach letters all get swapped around too. The EMT Norwich to Liverpool service also often doesn't have the coach letters in order (e.g B,A,D,C)
The on platform screens do say where the first class is, but only have three options, front, middle and back and can't cope with two lots of first in a train.

 

[boxy321]

Commuting between Chesterfield and Sheffield has made me used to trains being in no particular formation.
Depending on when I get up/when I finish work my train may be 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, or 9 coaches and may have no first class, first class at the rear, first class at the front, first class at the front and back, first class in the middle, first class at the front and middle or first class in the middle and back. Obviously its not just first that moves, the coach letters all get swapped around too. The EMT Norwich to Liverpool service also often doesn't have the coach letters in order (e.g B,A,D,C)
The on platform screens do say where the first class is, but only have three options, front, middle and back and can't cope with two lots of first in a train.

How busy do those get? There were 400-500 people getting off at New St. last night and even more walking across each other's paths to get on, down the length of a 1,000 foot long platform.

I see the Chesterfield run could be all manner of TOCs. It's similar from Moor St., but everything is the same class (apart from 'business zone', which is miles away at the far end of the platform) so getting on pretty stress free.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The on platform screens do say where the first class is, but only have three options, front, middle and back and can't cope with two lots of first in a train.

It's about time the PIS showed a formation diagram with platform zones like the Swiss (and Euston) do.

 

[Bantamzen]

For me, worrying about the formation is the most stressful part of any journey I make (as described in a trip report from last year). Given that they manage only 17 stations, sending the needed info to each station should not be rocket science...

On Trans-Pennine in the peak hours worrying which way round the unit will be in is a basic fact of life when you book first (or even standard in cars A or C). With no set unit formation, and with hundreds of people launching themselves at a 3 car set, trying to guess and make the car of your choice is a stressful experience. So much so that I now avoid like the plague any departures from Leeds between 7-9 in the morning, and 4-6 in the evening. There have been aborted attempts to convey the unit formation (i.e. 1st at the front or rear) on the CIS and via announcements, but largely at the stations I usually use on TPE services (Leeds and Warrington Central) this has been abandoned.

Cross-Country do still seem to be able to get this information across however, although at places like Leeds & Birmingham you still face the gamble of being able to get near your coach with passenger numbers and the semi-regular, last minute platform changes unless the service is formed of more than the usual 4/5 cars.

 

[DarloRich]

For me, worrying about the formation is the most stressful part of any journey I make (as described in a trip report from last year). Given that they manage only 17 stations, sending the needed info to each station should not be rocket science...

whats stressful about it?

EDIT - I have now read the attached link. I know this wont help but the formation really isn't the stressful thing. Having the train actually turn up..............

 

[nellystew]

Happens fairly often. Sometimes its just an inconvenience and a passenger annoyance, I imagine that would be true for 390s as its just a unit.

However when it (very rarely) happens on the GEML it causes all sorts of issues. DVT is in the wrong place, chucks dispatch process in the bin.

Just curious, what problems does having the DVT at the wrong end (the London one I think)?

 

[najaB]

Just curious, what problems does having the DVT at the wrong end (the London one I think)?

I'm going to guess that the guard normally uses the door on the DVT when doing dispatch. If it's at the wrong end then they have to use a passenger door. Which means they aren't standing where they would normally be standing.

 

[route101]

Polmadie send Pendos round the Hamilton Circle occasionally

 

[Trog]

How about painting a mark on the front of the train at the first class end, as was done by BR on some units. At least then the regulars would get a couple of hundred yards warning to start heading up or down the platform.