Permitted routes for Southport-Chester

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aformeruser

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Are there any permitted routes for Southport-Chester other than via Birkenhead or on the 'direct' Northern services on Sunday?
 
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R

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Following on from original post, will someone please point me to where I can find the routeing guide for Southport, I have been to the ATOC site and looked at maps, permitted routes etc. and cant find an mention of Southport. Am I looking in the wrong place? Another thing as anyone printed an easy and in my case simple! to understand guide to the routeing guides?
 

John @ home

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Valid Routes from Southport [SOP] to Chester [CTR] are:

Through trains from Southport to Chester
The through Northern trains on Sundays.

Shortest Route from Southport to Chester: 40.25 miles
Southport, Birkdale, Hillside, Ainsdale, Freshfield, Formby, Hightown, Hall Road, Blundellsands & Crosby, Waterloo (Merseyside), Seaforth & Litherland, Bootle New Strand, Bootle Oriel Road, Bank Hall, Sandhills, Brunswick, Moorfields, Liverpool Central, Liverpool James Street, Birkenhead Hamilton Square, Birkenhead Central, Green Lane, Rock Ferry, Bebington, Port Sunlight, Spital, Bromborough Rake, Bromborough, Eastham Rake, Hooton, Capenhurst, Bache, Chester.
0.5 miles less from Chester to Southport, which omits Liverpool Central.

Routeing Points:
Southport [SOP] is associated with Liverpool Group, Preston (Lancs) and Wigan Group Routeing Points (RPs).
Chester [CTR] is a RP.

Fares Check:
Southport - Chester route Any Permitted: SDS £7.30.
Preston (Lancs) - Chester route Any Permitted: SDS £21.10. Preston (Lancs) is not an appropriate origin RP for a Southport - Chester journey.
Wigan Stations - Chester route Any Permitted: SDS £14.40. Wigan Stations (for ticketing purposes) comprises Wigan North Western and Wigan Wallgate. This is identical to Wigan Group (for Routeing Purposes). Therefore Wigan Group is not an appropriate origin RP for a Southport - Chester journey.

Liverpool Group - Chester requires more detailed consideration. Liverpool Stns (for ticketing purposes) comprises James St Liverpl, Liverpool Ctl, Liverpool L St and Moorfields. Liverpool Group (for Routeing Purposes) comprises these four stations, and also Birkenhead H Sq, Edge Hill, Liverpool Lnd Sg and Sandhills. "Liverpool Lnd Sg" is Liverpool Landing Stage, which is not a railway station so it may be ignored for railway routeing purposes.

There are no rules available to the public about which station(s) within a Routeing Point Group are to be used for the fares check, so we must consider all of them.

Liverpool Stns - Chester route Via Birkenhead: SDS £6.70.
There are no fares Birkenhead H Sq - Chester route Via Birkenhead.
Edge Hill - Chester route Via Birkenhead: SDS £6.70.
Sandhills - Chester route Via Birkenhead: SDS £6.70.
Liverpool Group passes the fares check for each station where a route Via Birkenhead fare exists, therefore
Liverpool Stns Group is an appropriate origin RP for a Southport - Chester journey if this fare is used for the comparison.

Liverpool Stns - Chester route Via Warrington: SDS £10.30.
There are no fares Birkenhead H Sq - Chester route Via Warrington.
Edge Hill - Chester route Via Warrington: SDS £10.30.
Sandhills - Chester route Via Warrington: SDS £10.30.
Liverpool Group fails the fares check for each station where a route Via Warrington fare exists, therefore
Liverpool Group is not an appropriate origin RP for a Southport - Chester journey if this fare is used for the comparison.

Liverpool Group - Chester route Any Permitted: SDS £10.40.
Birkenhead H Sq - Chester route Any Permitted: SDS £5.40
Edge Hill - Chester route Any Permitted: SDS £6.25.
Sandhills - Chester route Any Permitted: SDS £9.20.
Liverpool Group passes the fares check for Birkenhead H Sq and Sandhills route Any Permitted, therefore
Liverpool Stns is not an appropriate origin RP for a Southport - Chester journey if this fare is used for the comparison.

If it is accepted that a Southport - Chester route Any Permitted fare must be compared with the a Liverpool Stns - Chester route Any Permitted fare from a member of Liverpool Group, then there are no appropriate origin RPs for this journey and no mapped routes to consider. The only valid routes are the shortest route and any route not more than 3 miles longer a Southport - Chester route Any Permitted fare may be compared with a Edge Hill - Chester or a Birkenhead H Sq - Chester route Any Permitted fare, then Liverpool Group passes the fares check and the mapped routes below are also valid routes.

If it is accepted that a Southport - Chester route Any Permitted fare may be compared with a Liverpool Stns - Chester route Via Birkenhead fare, then these mapped routes are also valid routes.

Mapped Routes :
LIVERPOOL GROUP - Chester:
 
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CheapAndNerdy

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If it is accepted that a Southport - Chester route Any Permitted fare must be compared with a Liverpool Stns - Chester route Any Permitted fare, then there are no appropriate origin RPs for this journey and no mapped routes to consider. The only valid routes are the shortest route and any route not more than 3 miles longer.

If it is accepted that a Southport - Chester route Any Permitted fare may be compared with a Liverpool Stns - Chester route Via Birkenhead fare, then these mapped routes are also valid routes.

Mapped Routes :
LIVERPOOL GROUP - Chester:

That's an interesting analysis. CH,CP & ML correspond to the shortest route. Only ML+CL strays away from that, allowing travel via Warrington or Runcorn. IMO (and it's an inexperienced one) one must infer that there are no mapped routes for the specified journey.

Out of interest how are you able to determine which fare is the "any permitted" one? The NRE website or the fares manual?
 

tony_mac

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Just to confuse things a little, Hamilton Square to Chester 'Any Permitted' does pass the fares-check rule, and is a member of the Liverpool Routeing Group.

(You seem to have interchanged Liverpool Stations & Liverpool Group, but they aren't the same).

Although that doesn't really help much.
 
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