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Piccadilly line to Ealing Broadway

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MatthewRead

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I've been hearing on this forum that the Piccadilly line is to take over the Ealing Broadway Branch from the District line when will this be?
 
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swt_passenger

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IIRC it's only a proposal, and can only happen after the new Piccadilly line rolling stock is delivered. Last year they were talking about 2026 or even later for the stock? Not sure at all if changing the branches is even a firm proposal yet, or if any decision has been made, but they do need to deal with a significant increase in core frequency, possibly another 8-10 tph.

It would then allow increased frequencies on the other western branches of the District Line.
 

MatthewRead

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IIRC it's only a proposal, and can only happen after the new Piccadilly line rolling stock is delivered. Last year they were talking about 2026 or even later for the stock? Not sure at all if changing the branches is even a firm proposal yet, or if any decision has been made, but they do need to deal with a significant increase in core frequency, possibly another 8-10 tph.

It would then allow increased frequencies on the other western branches of the District Line.
I thought the new Piccadilly stock was coming in 2023. Its a shame they can't run it to Ealing Broadway over the Christmas period or at least run a District shuttle from Acton Town because correct me if I'm wrong didn't they run a shuttle from Acton Town to Ealing Broadway over the weekend of 17-18th June this year whats stopping them from doing it over Christmas?
 

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Lrd

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The announcement for the chosen builder of the trains was due around now but has been pushed back until next year so I doubt we'll see a new train in 2023
 

swt_passenger

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I thought the new Piccadilly stock was coming in 2023.

I gave you the dates from a 2016 TfL board paper. But they were for completion of all the line renewals, signalling upgrades and capacity increases. So that is not inconsistent with the first new trains arriving somewhat earlier. There has to be a stage with mixed fleets running, and then build up to full fleet and full frequency increase.
But it seems you have asked about this only a few months ago and had nearly all the answers already...
 
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LU_timetabler

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I thought the new Piccadilly stock was coming in 2023. Its a shame they can't run it to Ealing Broadway over the Christmas period or at least run a District shuttle from Acton Town because correct me if I'm wrong didn't they run a shuttle from Acton Town to Ealing Broadway over the weekend of 17-18th June this year whats stopping them from doing it over Christmas?
What is the point in running that District shuttle?
There's a regular bus service by 3 London bus routes between Ealing Broadway and Ealing Common, being served by Piccadilly. There's also the Central line. There's also GWR to Paddington.
Not only that - running that shuttle cuts across the Piccadilly line to reach the reversing siding at Acton Town in both directions, making it awkward to timetable, and downright unreliable in regular running service throughout the day.
When it was run in June both the District and Piccadilly lines operations teams questioned its use. So that shuttle would only likely run again if one or maybe more of the alternatives listed above were also not available - that is not the case, so it is not running, and is highly unlikely ever so to do.
 

MatthewRead

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What is the point in running that District shuttle?
There's a regular bus service by 3 London bus routes between Ealing Broadway and Ealing Common, being served by Piccadilly. There's also the Central line. There's also GWR to Paddington.
Not only that - running that shuttle cuts across the Piccadilly line to reach the reversing siding at Acton Town in both directions, making it awkward to timetable, and downright unreliable in regular running service throughout the day.
When it was run in June both the District and Piccadilly lines operations teams questioned its use. So that shuttle would only likely run again if one or maybe more of the alternatives listed above were also not available - that is not the case, so it is not running, and is highly unlikely ever so to do.
Actually there is a heavily reduced service into Paddington that week owing to engineering works so they should either run a shuttle or send some of the Piccadilly line services to Ealing Broadway they've done it before they can do it again!
 

NSEFAN

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they did it before, realised it wasn’t workable, so won’t be doing it again.
From a passenger perspective, there was definitely confusion as to where trains were running. I recall seeing some passengers waiting for ages at Ealing Broadway for District line trains that weren't turning up, despite the frequent announcements and signs put up...

From the operational side, what issues made it unworkable?
 

90sWereBetter

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so they should either run a shuttle or send some of the Piccadilly line services to Ealing Broadway they've done it before they can do it again!

You're assuming Piccadilly drivers have the route knowledge required for this section, which seems highly unlikely unless they've recently transferred over from the District. Unions probably wouldn't sign it either

In any case, there are plenty of buses on the 207/427/607.
 

Dstock7080

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From the operational side, what issues made it unworkable?
Prolems of running a District shuttle were answered by lu_timetabler above.
Piccadilly trains require to be piloted and as mentioned in the linked thread above, if a SPAD occurs LU Management have stated that full responsibility would be with the Piccadilly driver, something the Unions object to.

Same arrangements will apply 24-25 February 2018
 
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MatthewRead

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You're assuming Piccadilly drivers have the route knowledge required for this section, which seems highly unlikely unless they've recently transferred over from the District. Unions probably wouldn't sign it either

In any case, there are plenty of buses on the 207/427/607.
It's only half a mile from Hanger Lane Junction to Ealing Broadway I don't see why you have to make such a thing out of it.
 

MatthewRead

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only half a mile; with 7 signals, 13 trainstops, 6 points, 3 unfamiliar platforms, to negotiate by an unfamiliar driver.
What about just running a shuttle from Ealing Common like in 2014 London Underground don't care for the Uxbridge passengers as long as the Heathrow services are not being held up!
 

rebmcr

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I don't see why you have to make such a thing out of it.

I can only see you "making a big thing about it" here. The other posters are just politely explaining the answers to your questions — don't shoot the messenger just because it's not the message you were hoping for.
 

MatthewRead

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I can only see you "making a big thing about it" here. The other posters are just politely explaining the answers to your questions — don't shoot the messenger just because it's not the message you were hoping for.
All I want is an easier way to get to Ealing Broadway as I live 25 mins from the Central line,15 mins from the nearest bus and I want to see what the situation is on the Great Western Main Line.
 

bluegoblin7

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As has been stated many times before: the railway does not run for you.

This is at least the third time this discussion has happened, and we're going round in circles.

If the service could run, it would run. The fact is that it can't, for a number of reasons that have been laid out above.

If you can't get your head around why then that's not our problem; the information is all here.

And those 7 signals, 13 trains tops, 6 points and 3 platforms can cause issues even for experienced District line drivers...
 

NSEFAN

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Piccadilly trains require to be piloted and as mentioned in the linked thread above, if a SPAD occurs LU Management have stated that full responsibility would be with the Piccadilly driver, something the Unions object to.
I guess that piloting may be less common on the Underground compared to Network Rail, but it's a bit dissapointing that LU Management would take such an absolutist attitude, given the myriad of reasons why SPADs could occur. I would hope that trainee drivers under instruction aren't made to assume full responsibility should they SPAD!
 

MatthewRead

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As has been stated many times before: the railway does not run for you.

This is at least the third time this discussion has happened, and we're going round in circles.

If the service could run, it would run. The fact is that it can't, for a number of reasons that have been laid out above.

If you can't get your head around why then that's not our problem; the information is all here.

And those 7 signals, 13 trains tops, 6 points and 3 platforms can cause issues even for experienced District line drivers...
But other trainspotters would love to see the Piccadilly at Ealing Broadway again I'm sure, what services will run on the GWML I heard it is heavily crippled with engineering works.
 

tranzitjim

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I would love to see Piccadilly line trains use Earling Broadway, as a limited service in addition to all existing services.

I see it as an advantage, to have super transport nodes at locations around the city, where all lines in that area service.
 

MatthewRead

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I would love to see Piccadilly line trains use Earling Broadway, as a limited service in addition to all existing services.

I see it as an advantage, to have super transport nodes at locations around the city, where all lines in that area service.
The trouble is I think because GWR are running through to Paddington (or be it limited services with some terminating at Ealing Broadway) there isn't so much demand like last year when all lines into Paddington were shut with everything reversing at Ealing Broadway, so I think this thread should be closed as it is now turning into a bit of a joke thread somone suggested using Mallard on Acton Town shuttles and I suggested Met 1 with Sarah Siddons what next getting the D stock out of retirement or even one of the last remaining A stocks or even the Track Recording Unit the joke list is endless!
 

Domh245

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Why not I'd like to be shown how to close threads.

You can't close threads yourself as far as I'm aware, you need to report your post (or any post in the thread, it doesn't really matter) so that it is brought to a moderator's attention. When you report it, you get a box asking you what you're reporting it for - in your case just say that you want to close the thread.
 

simple simon

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You're assuming Piccadilly drivers have the route knowledge required for this section, which seems highly unlikely unless they've recently transferred over from the District. Unions probably wouldn't sign it either

In any case, there are plenty of buses on the 207/427/607.


I understand the part about train drivers needing either route knowledge or a pilot, which of course is the opposite of how things are done on the roads.

However, regarding going by bus, I very much do not see this as an option. Why not? Because PAYG passengers will be required to pay a bus fare and passengers with paper railway tickets will be denied boarding ('coz buses no longer accept cash fares). Remove that obstacle and then for the able bodied this becomes an option.
 
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