Plymouth Citybus

[Goldfish62]

I will be interested to see who wins what. I wonder how much PCB have put in for? Same routes as at present or a few more besides? We will find out soon enough.

Dave

The inference from the press release and cabinet papers is that one operator has won the lot.

 

[DaveHarries]

The inference from the press release and cabinet papers is that one operator has won the lot.

Hmmm...interesting indeed. If that is the case then the question is whether they will be able to fill all of that lot. Could be someone like Summercourt Travel or Travel Cornwall I guess: I don't see an opco like First taking on services that run less frequently. I wonder also how this would affect the likes of the 11/11A in Plymouth and the routes around Callington. But, then again, I don't know exactly which routes Cornwall Council support.

Dave

 

[richw]

Hmmm...interesting indeed. If that is the case then the question is whether they will be able to fill all of that lot. Could be someone like Summercourt Travel or Travel Cornwall I guess: I don't see an opco like First taking on services that run less frequently. I wonder also how this would affect the likes of the 11/11A in Plymouth and the routes around Callington. But, then again, I don't know exactly which routes Cornwall Council support.

Dave

I can’t see someone like Summercourt travel having the resources to take on the tendered network. It equates to around 75 routes, but most of which are the once weekly stuff. There’s also approx 70 schools services within the tenders. Cornwall councils press release implies one operator has taken the lot. This to me is anti competitive against the small operator.
This timetable document gives a marker on which services by independents are currently subsidised.

https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/media/38472854/public-transport-guide-2019_pages-52-114.pdf

 

[DaveHarries]

This to me is anti competitive against the small operator.

Yes I agree. Thanks for the link also. I could see some of those routes being taken (potentially) by operators with bases in the area (eg: 425 Launceston & North Petherwin could be done by PCB who, I think, have a yard at Callington) so it seems odd to tender the whole lot to one opco.

At the same time would First really take on the once per weekday services? I think that, if one operator picks up all the routes, Cornwall Council may have ended up putting all their eggs in one basket which is usually never a good idea IMO. We shall see.

Dave

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Surely this is similar to the Dorset tender package in 2011 (that both Alex Carter and Marc Morgan-Huws were involved with)?

The memory has dulled a bit but seem to recall that it was awarded in a couple of tranches and that there were some tactical commercial registrations post award by both Go Ahead and First. However, Go Ahead did get most of the work and opened up a number of outstations to accommodate that. Mind you, I think that some of the most infrequent routes were sub-contracted in the very north of the county around Shaftesbury or Sherborne???

Dorset did have some big initial problems but the council were culpable in that. AC and MMH both exited Go Ahead and seemed (at least to an outsider) to carry the can. However, it did settle down and when it came back to retendering, it didn't seem to preclude firms from tendering.

 

[matt_splat]

Could say if first won it they subcontract stuff out to have it ran on behalf of first simular to how things work in Bristol with First / Abus. I guess a lot of the 1 a day services could be worked with School work and who's to say we might see changes to services and routes

 

[83G/84D]

They’re apparently being upgraded to euro 6 and repainted.

That would explain why they are not in service yet!

 

[Goldfish62]

This to me is anti competitive against the small operator.
This timetable document gives a marker on which services by independents are currently subsidised.

There's nothing anti competitive about it. If they decided to tender all routes as one package against which a single price had to be submitted, that's their prerogative.

Likewise, if they tendered each route individually, but one operator submitted a killer combination bid priced on taking the lot, as long as the council made its decision based on the principle of the Most Economically Advantageous Tender, then that's also completely above board.

However, if it is the case that one operator is taking the lot it will be a shame for certain small operators who provide a quality service (there are one or two which I wouldn't put in this category...).

 

[Busaholic]

I think subcontracting some, or all, of the minibus routes will occur if First win the lot, so firms like Travel Cornwall and Summercourt may still be seen. After all, they can get away with non-DDA compliant vehicles, saving a lot of money. Still see on one route the driver having to get out of his 'cab' (well, seat!) to open and close the door manually.

 

[Goldfish62]

I think subcontracting some, or all, of the minibus routes will occur if First win the lot, so firms like Travel Cornwall and Summercourt may still be seen. After all, they can get away with non-DDA compliant vehicles, saving a lot of money. Still see on one route the driver having to get out of his 'cab' (well, seat!) to open and close the door manually.

I honestly can't see the council accepting such vehicles under the new eight year contract. Such vehicles do not allow the council to achieve its stated aim of improving vehicle quality and in any case most are probably pre-Euro V, ruling out their use anyway.

 

[Busaholic]

I honestly can't see the council accepting such vehicles under the new eight year contract. Such vehicles do not allow the council to achieve its stated aim of improving vehicle quality and in any case most are probably pre-Euro V, ruling out their use anyway.

You're probably right - could still see them being sub-contracted, though, possibly to a new (to buses) operator.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You're probably right - could still see them being sub-contracted, though, possibly to a new (to buses) operator.

If you’ve an 8 year contract (even as a subby), it’ll allow firms the ability to buy or lease appropriate vehicles.

 

[Goldfish62]

If you’ve an 8 year contract (even as a subby), it’ll allow firms the ability to buy or lease appropriate vehicles.

Yes, eight years is a good leasing term as well.

 

[DaveHarries]

I realise that this is the wrong side of the Tamar (sorry) but I couldn't find a thread for south west independent operators so I put this here. I see, from Traveline SW, that Tally Ho! are taking Service 94 (Plymouth - Noss Mayo) from Target Travel wef 17-Feb-2020. No changes to the timetable.

Dave

 

[83G/84D]

I realise that this is the wrong side of the Tamar (sorry) but I couldn't find a thread for south west independent operators so I put this here. I see, from Traveline SW, that Tally Ho! are taking Service 94 (Plymouth - Noss Mayo) from Target Travel wef 17-Feb-2020. No changes to the timetable.

Dave

Dave there are separate threads for Cornish independents and smaller Devon operators but as they don’t get many postings you would need to look well into the buses and coaches section to find them.

 

[Megabus]

Plymouth Citybus (Go Cornwall/Go Ahead) have won ALL tendered work in Cornwall beginning in April.

 

[Goldfish62]

Plymouth Citybus (Go Cornwall/Go Ahead) have won ALL tendered work in Cornwall beginning in April.

Wow!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Plymouth Citybus (Go Cornwall/Go Ahead) have won ALL tendered work in Cornwall beginning in April.

Interesting, I wonder why they've done that? First probably won't be very happy

 

[Kevpbus]

Plymouth Citybus (Go Cornwall/Go Ahead) have won ALL tendered work in Cornwall beginning in April.

The EU Journal also records that First have won the Park & Ride in Truro. No result is given for the school contracts.

 

[richw]

The EU Journal also records that First have won the Park & Ride in Truro. No result is given for the school contracts.

Citybus have briefed their staff they’ve won the school buses too, with a total 130 extra vehicles needed!

 

[richw]

This has been shared on several public Facebook groups

 

[DaveHarries]

Nothing about this on Cornwall Council's news releases, or on the PCB website. A good win for PCB / GCB if true and it sounds as if they will be in need of a few more outstations, especially around Penzance, Truro / St. Austell and Newquay if there are any routes down in those parts: I can't see them working the whole lot out of their Plymouth and Callington yards!

Dave

 

[Goldfish62]

Nothing about this on Cornwall Council's news releases, or on the PCB website. A good win for PCB / GCB if true and it sounds as if they will be in need of a few more outstations, especially around Penzance, Truro / St. Austell and Newquay if there are any routes down in those parts: I can't see them working the whole lot out of their Plymouth and Callington yards!

Dave

I don't think there's any "if true" about it. From the staff notice it's obviously true.

In the Penzance area alone the 5 and 16/A are fully supported, plus all winter Sunday services and some early morning journeys on other routes. Then there's the other operators' routes around Land's End, St Erth and Lamorna.

This means GoAhead will be covering the whole of Cornwall.

 

[Trainfan061193]

Plymouth Citybus (Go Cornwall/Go Ahead) have won ALL tendered work in Cornwall beginning in April.

So does this mean First Kernow will cease to exist from April 1st?

 

[Goldfish62]

So does this mean First Kernow will cease to exist from April 1st?

No. They retain most of their work.

 

[iantherev]

No. FK has an extensive commercial network which will continue and may even be expanded if there are some marginal tendered routes which First might consider taking on commercially.

 

[Goldfish62]

No. FK has an extensive commercial network which will continue and may even be expanded if there are some marginal tendered routes which First might consider taking on commercially.

Which is exactly what I'd do.

I'm told that First have just informed staff that there'll be no redundancies.

 

[richw]

Which is exactly what I'd do.

I'm told that First have just informed staff that there'll be no redundancies.

This is what the staff notices Told us a long with intentions

A citybus manager has commented on a open Facebook group they’ll be needing to double their driver numbers. There simply isn’t that many spare and unemployed drivers sat around so will be interesting where the drivers come from.

 

[overthewater]

First are not sacking anyone, and Go-Ahead will need to find some new drivers? Has First done this so scupper Go ahead? Also how many contracts were held by small coach firms?

 

[Goldfish62]

First are not sacking anyone, and Go-Ahead will need to find some new drivers? Has First done this so scupper Go ahead? Also how many contracts were held by small coach firms?

I believe the majority of contracts are with small operators.