northwichcat
Veteran Member
Which stock cascade do you think is the worse since privitasition?
EMT/LM split that removed class 170's off the Liverpool - Norwich runs and gave commuter routes in Birmingham a mixture of gangwayed and non gangwayed units.
AFAIK the only reason it didn't happen was Scottish politicians being unhappy (since the 158s had been refurbished more recently)
I think it was more to do with they funded the refurbishment
442s for 460s by far.
There seems to be absolutely no logic there whatsoever (Then again, it's the railway, so it's not exactly a surprise), replacing specific airport trains with older ones that were not designed as airport trains.
I do wonder who it was that thought it would be a good idea, though.
170s taken off the Liverpool to Norwich route and replaced with 158s.
Again depends on how you look at it, I am baised as I prefer the 158. But it is going to work out for the best, as EMT will be operating most services as 4 car as a 4 car 158 is better than a 4 car 170 because of the corridor connection.
I can see why they are doing it, a 460 on a peak hour Brighton - London service would seriously overcrowd (yes we can debate about getting rid of the Gatwick express in the first place). But I agree send the 442's back to SWT and bring the 458's over instead! Maybe break them up to make the 460's longer rather than the other way around.
170s with their 1/3, 2/3 doors are better suited to Birmingham suburban work than 158s would be.
Turbostars were more than anything ordered to replace the last Slammers around Birmingham, and also should have kept 156s off Norwich and Stansted (and 150s of Lincoln and Skegness) but in practice anything could run anywhere.
It's why EMT should be getting 156s from Northern instead of 150s, as they don't really have any 150 suitable routes (although CT have used them to Lincoln and Skegness).
I thought EMT were getting 6 156s from Northern who will get 8 150s from LooRoll.
I don't see all the fuss about EMT not getting the 170 units. There not as good as the 158s for a long distance service which links the east with the west. Class 170s door layout is for shorter distance routes and I feel there suited quite well to the Birmingham - Rugeley Trent Valley, Hereford & Shrewsbury trains. The 158s wouldn't really fit onto these local services due to their slow doors, lower speeds and door layouts.
Of course your always going to get the commuters between Liverpool & Manchester moaning about overcrowding with 158s being used, but at the end of the day its a Semi-Fast service which isn't really supposed to have masses of commuters travelling on it!
Not a cascade but Northern stealing NH's 158s and allocating them to Neville Hill.
Once these routes were taken over by the 185, was there any other routes which the 158's would have been suited to in the Manchester area?