Preference to buy tickets from a ticket office

[Hadders]

Well of course there are many such journeys. The sort of journeys I was referring would not involve travel between London and Reading nor into South Wales. All moot anyway it seems.

Realistically you couldn't have staff offering split tickets on some routes and not others. That would be farcical.

 

[sheff1]

Realistically you couldn't have staff offering split tickets on some routes and not others. That would be farcical.

The way various railway related documents are written results in farcical situations. The way some people interpret said documents produces more farcical situations.

 

[Krokodil]

I also get the impression from this Forum's disputes and prosecutions section that mishaps linked to online tickets are significantly more frequent than those linked to booking office transactions.

Worth noting that the bulk of cases on said forum are not mere "mishaps", but deliberate fraud. It's a bit more tricky to doughnut when buying tickets from a human (though short-faring still happens if only the origin station is barriered). They're also more likely to want to see a railcard before selling a discounted ticket.

 

[modernrail]

The main reason I use ticket offices is to book a ticket with bike reservation. Online booking for this is still often either impossible or clunky with some operators. Again Trainline seems to be starting to make this easier (well done being worse again public sector/TOCs).

I always thought that any station ticket office should be able to sell a ticket for any operator and arrange bike reservations and have generally had okay experiences, but recently found that this had changed, with some ticket offices saying they can’t do it.

But it gets weird, because for instance, Herne Hill does do it, Tulse Hill claims they cannot. Same operator, 1 station apart.

What is the basic principle here. Should any ticket office be able to sell a ticket for any operator, with bike space, seat reservation etc?

What infuriates me with some of the attitudes at ticket offices is that some of the same culprits and their unions then expect passengers to become exercised on their behalf when there is a threat of ticket office closures. I would be much more tempted if I didn’t feel I was interrupting that persons day in at least 80% of interactions. Not to say that there are not some honourable exceptions.

 

[redreni]

Some people will be honest about the fact they don't know how to do something and will be willing to give it a go.

A worrying proportion of ticket office staff, however, will just insist it's impossible and refuse to try. I'm not even sure it's a minority - I rather suspect it must be somewhere in the region of half. Consequently they don't learn, and there are many tickets they could sell and services they could offer, which they don't purely because they've never bothered to find out how. (I'm not too worried about offending these people, because they're most unlikely to be on this forum). They just expect to make a living only offering very basic products and services that 95% of people don't need to get from them as opposed to elsewhere, and they will be in large part responsible for the eventual demise of ticket offices.

I have had some lovely experiences with ticket office staff who I've asked for something they haven't sold before, who seemed genuinely pleased to have learned something new.

 

[yorkie]

You shouldn't. I use ticket offices a lot, but I'm generally on my way home and buying a ticket for the following day or the day after.

I remember York ticket office would frequently refuse to sell tickets for the next day on an evening, even if there was no queue.

We really shouldn't have to ever queue at a ticket office, or hope that the ticket office doesn't refuse to sell the required tickets; all tickets should be available online, which is consistent with what the vast majority want.

There will always be that small minority who particularly want to use a ticket office, but there aren't any compelling reasons why the majority would want to.

We know the regular split points for a lot of journeys. There are websites that can use to check too

Which websites are they?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Which websites are they?

If you Google split train tickets you'll be offered several. However, unless a niche case, generally Scotrail is our goto website if we're stuck for ideas.

 

[Leogilbert007]

I try to make a point of using ticket offices as a militant gesture but don’t know how effective this actually is at staving off the closure of ticket offices, and a certain member of ticket office staff at my local station has been short-tempered (sometimes bordering on nasty) whenever I need to perform tasks one can only do at a ticket office (E.g. add a 16-17 Saver to a new/renewed paper season). I go out of my way to use ticket offices in protest of them being closed, but it’s becoming increasingly common for me to not bother at my local station…. in contrast the ticket office staff at London Victoria have been nothing short of excellent whenever I’ve interacted with them.
Without sounding rude, and by no means ignoring that everyone has bad days, it feels like this staff member always has bad days, and as said upthread some staff seem to be advocating in favour of ticket office closures by way of the behaviour they display.

 

[sad1e]

in contrast the ticket office staff at London Victoria have been nothing short of excellent

Ticket offices at large stations and London terminals tend to be much more experienced staff from my experience. (Well apart from st pancras Thameslink)
I've never really had the greatest experience with ticket offices outside of London and at small stations , a lot of staff there seem quite inexperienced.

At Bedford I remember having to list off the code (EM1) of the East midlands day ranger to a member of staff that continuously tried to refute the existence of ranger tickets.

 

[Killingworth]

I cant help reading this thread with wry smiles. Most Northern stations don't have ticket offices, on my line not since 1969.

Northern regularly run promotions for cheap tickets in conjunction with newspaper groups and collection of tokens from their papers. They tend to appeal to an older age group who wouldn't use Internet applications and are wary about ticket machines.

I tecently met an older rail enthusiast who lives within 150 yards of such a station. He'd taken the bus with his OAP pass into Sheffield to arrange tickets from the ticket office for a trip to York.

I don't know who is arranging split tickets for journeys using the Hope Valley stopping trains but it would be helpful if it was made more clear that they shouldn't leave the train at the split point. I assume this must he happening in similar fashion across the nation. Unfortunately many of the victims seem to have limited English so may have been helped by a friend rather than a booking office.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Which websites are they?

It is also worth noting that a number of customers have checked fares online and quote the split fare, so we just need to find the same-or better-split.

 

[Haywain]

It is also worth noting that a number of customers have checked fares online and quote the split fare, so we just need to find the same-or better-split.

So, if I come into your ticket office and say I want to go from A to B, 200 miles away, and online it said it was £35.00, how long should I expect it to take for you to find me a suitable ticket?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Some years ago, I watched people from a world-wide area at the booking office at Manchester Airport railway station booking rail tickets and receiving much help on associated matters concerned with their onwards travel.

My late wife and I made many rail journeys from that station to destinations such as Durham, York and Windermere (when TPE ran that service) and always called in there at less busy times a few days in advance of the proposed journey and were issued with the credit card sized rail tickets and seat reservation tickets. First Class was the preferred option and was something to look forward to.

 

[Sonic1234]

They just expect to make a living only offering very basic products and services that 95% of people don't need to get from them as opposed to elsewhere, and they will be in large part responsible for the eventual demise of ticket offices.

It depends if you think a job where you spend most of your day staring at your phone/out the window is heaven or hell. A lot seem to be in the former category. A suburban ticket office job would be a good idea if you were doing a distance learning course.

The number of times I've seen people use suburban London ticket offices is single digits. At one station, the ticket office clerk looked overjoyed whenever someone knocked the large teddy they were raffling for charity off its seat - meant they had a job to do for the next 30 seconds. Mind you, these are the sort of stations where they could stop accepting anything except Oyster and Contactless and barely lose any business.

 

[sad1e]

The number of times I've seen people use suburban London ticket offices is single digits. At one station, the ticket office clerk looked overjoyed whenever someone knocked the large teddy they were raffling for charity off its seat - meant they had a job to do for the next 30 seconds. Mind you, these are the sort of stations where they could stop accepting anything except Oyster and Contactless and barely lose any business.

My experience too , the ticket office staff at my local station seem to be employed more to scowl at fare evaders then to issue tickets.

I can't remember one time where anyone but me has used the ticket office to buy a ticket, and I only use the ticket office for rangers and other tickets that can't be brought online.

Very surprised many London suburban station ticket offices are still open. I wonder how many non enthusiasts would notice if all London ticket offices were closed apart from offices at London Terminals.

 

[redreni]

My experience too , the ticket office staff at my local station seem to be employed more to scowl at fare evaders then to issue tickets.

I can't remember one time where anyone but me has used the ticket office to buy a ticket, and I only use the ticket office for rangers and other tickets that can't be brought online.

Very surprised many London suburban station ticket offices are still open. I wonder how many non enthusiasts would notice if all London ticket offices were closed apart from offices at London Terminals.

I also live in suburban London. If the ticket offices in the stations nearest to me were to close and the staff were dispensed with, the stations would be entirely unstaffed. The trains that call at the stations are DOO. There would be nobody to assist disabled passengers to board or alight, nobody to deploy wheelchair ramps, nobody to ask undesirables to move on, and so on.

When the ticket office closure consultation happened there was a great deal of hot air about maintaining staffing levels (by replacing salaried and unionised ticket office staff with insecure casual labour), but of course whether the stations continued to be staffed in the future would have been entirely at TOCs' discretion, rather than a regulatory requirement as it is now. So my view on it is you need those people there and they might as well be based in the ticket office where people can find them if they need them, whether or not they actually sell any significant number of tickets. Perhaps if I were involved in online ticket retailing I would have more of a preference for the ticket retailing role to be discontinued.

 

[sad1e]

I also live in suburban London. If the ticket offices in the stations nearest to me were to close and the staff were dispensed with, the stations would be entirely unstaffed. The trains that call at the stations are DOO. There would be nobody to assist disabled passengers to board or alight, nobody to deploy wheelchair ramps, nobody to ask undesirables to move on, and so on.

When the ticket office closure consultation happened there was a great deal of hot air about maintaining staffing levels (by replacing salaried and unionised ticket office staff with insecure casual labour), but of course whether the stations continued to be staffed in the future would have been entirely at TOCs' discretion, rather than a regulatory requirement as it is now. So my view on it is you need those people there and they might as well be based in the ticket office where people can find them if they need them, whether or not they actually sell any significant number of tickets. Perhaps if I were involved in online ticket retailing I would have more of a preference for the ticket retailing role to be discontinued.

Putting it that way , if it is a requirement to have station staff, you may as well give them the ability to sell tickets.

 

[styles]

Putting it that way , if it is a requirement to have station staff, you may as well give them the ability to sell tickets.

Presumably when they're selling tickets though they can't just close the ticket office to help a disabled passenger can they? That could be 15 minutes say, during which somebody is stood there waiting for the ticket office to reopen? It makes a ticket office far less useful if you have to hang around for an unknown period of time waiting for a staff member to reappear.

Also if they weren't bound to a ticket office before the barriers, they could be more proactive in dealing with undesirables and disabled passengers or being available on platforms for people who need travel information etc.

I suspect the ticket offices are less used for ticket sales than general enquiries. At which point you could do away with the physical counter and have staff roam, with the ability to sell tickets. A passenger help point before the barriers could connect to the staff member for when they're roaming.

 

[Deafdoggie]

So, if I come into your ticket office and say I want to go from A to B, 200 miles away, and online it said it was £35.00, how long should I expect it to take for you to find me a suitable ticket?

We'd normally start with our best guess at a split. Usually this is right. So, no time at all is the answer. Most people have used trainline and we know where they split most journeys. Very rarely someone says "I found it even cheaper online" so we ask to see what that journey was. Either they miraculously can't now find that journey or it's not the exact same journey.
Splitting tickets at a ticket office really isn't hard, mainly because most people are buying tickets that start at your station and you know the flows and you know the split points. It's very rare someone comes in and asks for a ticket between two random places.

 

[Hadders]

Putting it that way , if it is a requirement to have station staff, you may as well give them the ability to sell tickets.

What's the additional cost of:

The ticketing equipment
Training staff
Cash collection and payment reconciliation
Security equipment eg safes, intruder alarms etc

In many cases stations in London only sell a handful of tickets each year.

I'm all for leeoing stations fully staffed but we do need to consider whether doing it under the guise of ticket offices is the best way to achieve it.

 

[stadler]

The main reason I use ticket offices is to book a ticket with bike reservation. Online booking for this is still often either impossible or clunky with some operators. Again Trainline seems to be starting to make this easier (well done being worse again public sector/TOCs).

I always thought that any station ticket office should be able to sell a ticket for any operator and arrange bike reservations and have generally had okay experiences, but recently found that this had changed, with some ticket offices saying they can’t do it.

But it gets weird, because for instance, Herne Hill does do it, Tulse Hill claims they cannot. Same operator, 1 station apart.

What is the basic principle here. Should any ticket office be able to sell a ticket for any operator, with bike space, seat reservation etc?

What infuriates me with some of the attitudes at ticket offices is that some of the same culprits and their unions then expect passengers to become exercised on their behalf when there is a threat of ticket office closures. I would be much more tempted if I didn’t feel I was interrupting that persons day in at least 80% of interactions. Not to say that there are not some honourable exceptions.

Herne Hill is a Southeastern station. Tulse Hill is a Southern station. Both stations ticket offices are run by different operators.

 

[yorkie]

So, if I come into your ticket office and say I want to go from A to B, 200 miles away, and online it said it was £35.00, how long should I expect it to take for you to find me a suitable ticket?

We'd normally start with our best guess at a split. Usually this is right. So, no time at all is the answer. Most people have used trainline and we know where they split most journeys. Very rarely someone says "I found it even cheaper online" so we ask to see what that journey was. Either they miraculously can't now find that journey or it's not the exact same journey.
Splitting tickets at a ticket office really isn't hard, mainly because most people are buying tickets that start at your station and you know the flows and you know the split points. It's very rare someone comes in and asks for a ticket between two random places.

You're avoiding the questions, especially regarding the "websites" you refer to earlier; are these websites provided by the company, or are you using third party sites to do the legwork, which you then use for your own purposes?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jun 2025 ==

If you Google split train tickets you'll be offered several. However, unless a niche case, generally Scotrail is our goto website if we're stuck for ideas.

Is this an admission that you use third party sites, during the course of your work at a TOC, to obtain split ticket information?

So to answer the question posed by @Haywain, you load up sites, such as the forum's site, and obtain the information from those sources for your own purposes?

Is your employer aware of this, and do they condone it?

This also appears to be an admission that third party sites - such as the forum's - are better than any tools you have access to, and the only way that you can match such sites is to scrape the information from them and then manually search for each individual ticket produced by the sites?

Does this fit within RDG guidelines, and are you aware of the costs that such sites will be incurring from RDG, of which your TOC is a member? This sounds like a potential, scandal and you could be setting up your TOC to be liable for a settlement...

 

[redreni]

Presumably when they're selling tickets though they can't just close the ticket office to help a disabled passenger can they? That could be 15 minutes say, during which somebody is stood there waiting for the ticket office to reopen? It makes a ticket office far less useful if you have to hang around for an unknown period of time waiting for a staff member to reappear.

That's exactly what they do. If you need a ticket that can't be issued by the TVM then you'd be well advised to buy it online rather than rely on the ticket office actually being open when it's supposed to be. Southeastern also don't roster any cover for staff breaks.

Also if they weren't bound to a ticket office before the barriers, they could be more proactive in dealing with undesirables and disabled passengers or being available on platforms for people who need travel information etc.

I suspect the ticket offices are less used for ticket sales than general enquiries. At which point you could do away with the physical counter and have staff roam, with the ability to sell tickets. A passenger help point before the barriers could connect to the staff member for when they're roaming.

Where do you look for them? What if you're blind? Knowing where to find them is surely important? The stations I am thinking of are ungated.

What's the additional cost of:

The ticketing equipment
Training staff

If they have invested significantly in the training of the regular member of staff at my local station, they are due a refund...

Cash collection and payment reconciliation
Security equipment eg safes, intruder alarms etc

In many cases stations in London only sell a handful of tickets each year.

I'm all for leeoing stations fully staffed but we do need to consider whether doing it under the guise of ticket offices is the best way to achieve it.

If they come back with a proposal that retains regulated staffing hours then I would be more receptive to that argument. As they didn't, I wasn't receptive to it. Neither was the RMT, and I can understand why.

 

[Hadders]

If they come back with a proposal that retains regulated staffing hours then I would be more receptive to that argument. As they didn't, I wasn't receptive to it. Neither was the RMT, and I can understand why.

I doubt anything will be regulated after nationalisation.

 

[xotGD]

For my commute into Leeds I buy advances and collect (usually ahead of the day of travel) from a ticket machine. If I'm heading the other way ( towards Skipton) then I'm buying my ticket when I arrive at the station. As I have to walk past the ticket office, unless there is a significant queue, it is easier for me to just ask for my ticket there than poke about on the adjacent ticket machine to get my piece.

I accept that I am in a minority in my desire to have a physical ticket rather than relying on a phone.

 

[Trevor25]

To tip the scale a little in favour of positive ticket office experiences, let me share 3 ranging from normal to going the extra mile, all at Bournemouth:

1. There was a queue for the machines but bizarrely no one at the ticket office one time, so I just went there
2. I wanted a month return to Exeter that would allow travel both via Salisbury and via Dorchester (but not Reading, as it turned out that would make it more expensive than it needed to be) and I found the options displayed both online and by the machine confusing so I went to the ticket office, explained, and they sold me what I needed
3. I had bought advance tickets and paid with a virtual card (silly me) so the machine refused to print them without the matching card. So I went to the ticket office, they couldn't initially do it either, but they called somebody who pushed some magic buttons in the backend to lift the card check, then they could print the tickets

That said, although I oppose the closure of ticket offices in principle, I rarely use them in practice.

 

[Trainbike46]

Presumably when they're selling tickets though they can't just close the ticket office to help a disabled passenger can they? That could be 15 minutes say, during which somebody is stood there waiting for the ticket office to reopen? It makes a ticket office far less useful if you have to hang around for an unknown period of time waiting for a staff member to reappear.

Ticket office staff at small stations usually do various duties around the station, if you want to buy a ticket you find them and ask if you can buy a ticket. This is already standard practice at small stations.

Very surprised many London suburban station ticket offices are still open. I wonder how many non enthusiasts would notice if all London ticket offices were closed apart from offices at London Terminals.

There are some stations where I share your surprise.

I think the last government went way too far in its proposals to close ticket offices. If they'd pushed it less far, and instead proposed closing rarely used ticket offices only, I wouldn't have been opposed, and I doubt most opponents would have been.

 

[modernrail]

Herne Hill is a Southeastern station. Tulse Hill is a Southern station. Both stations ticket offices are run by different operators.

What level of service is one meant to expect. Is there a common minimum availability of ticket types/services that should be offered by any UK ticket office, or it is it entirely discretionary at the call of the operator?

 

[TUC]

If you offer splits proactively you aren’t acting impartially towards other train companies.

“The fare is £100 for that journey” (however with this trick I can circumvent that for you and save you £50).

It’s not about being impartial to the customer.

This is a very long established principle from the dawn of privatisation although perhaps it is not covered in retail training any more. It was in my training, and I didn’t even sell tickets. I did handle a lot of technical complaints relating to fares though.

In what way are not acting impartially if you proactively offer splits? Which TOCs benefit from offering several split tickets will depend upon where the splits fall and the nature of the tickets at those split points. As long as you're not doing the split with benefitting any particular TOC being in mind, only what is the best deal for the customer's needs, surely that is impartial retailing?

 

[styles]

Ticket office staff at small stations usually do various duties around the station, if you want to buy a ticket you find them and ask if you can buy a ticket. This is already standard practice at small stations.

Which makes them unreliable and ineffective. Which in turn means people won't use them as they'll have bad experiences and not want to bother again.

Be better off replacing the window with a passenger help point button which goes through to a roaming member of staff who can better spend their time proactively doing things and helping passengers around the station.

Unlike when Diamond Geezer visited Caledonian Road & Barnsbury, whose ticket office didn't sell a single ticket for 4 consecutive months this year, and was mildly tempted to buy a ticket from the ticket office just to give the staff member whose head was staring down at the desk at a slightly defeated angle something to do.

At least if they're roaming they can be picking up litter, looking out for suicidal or despondent persons, being around passengers to offer advice if there's delays or cancellations etc.