Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[Railperf]

at some point, they’ll end up running north of preston but not with EPS

There was a plan to bring in a new speed profile north of Preston for TPE 397's. Has that died a death now? Clearly would be useful for any 125mph capable stock

Any news on when the new MU speed profile for the 805/807's goes live south of Weaver Jn? I guess that will be an important element for testing and driver training. Is there special dispensation to test at 125mph currently on certain 'straight' sections of track?

 

[Efini92]

There was a plan to bring in a new speed profile north of Preston for TPE 397's. Has that died a death now? Clearly would be useful for any 125mph capable stock

Any news on when the new MU speed profile for the 805/807's goes live south of Weaver Jn? I guess that will be an important element for testing and driver training. Is there special dispensation to test at 125mph currently on certain 'straight' sections of track?

@Bald Rick is your man to answer that.
As for places that are 125 I can think of two off the top of my head that are already 125 MU. Between Rugby and Coventry. Between Wolves and Stafford.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

As for places that are 125 I can think of two off the top of my head that are already 125 MU. Between Rugby and Coventry. Between Wolves and Stafford.

Based on https://www.openrailwaymap.org/ those two areas are the only ones on the WCML

 

[The Planner]

There was a plan to bring in a new speed profile north of Preston for TPE 397's. Has that died a death now? Clearly would be useful for any 125mph capable stock

Any news on when the new MU speed profile for the 805/807's goes live south of Weaver Jn? I guess that will be an important element for testing and driver training. Is there special dispensation to test at 125mph currently on certain 'straight' sections of track?

I would suggest dormant is the correct word for it. South of Weaver is still not signed off properly.

 

[YourMum666]

Based on https://www.openrailwaymap.org/ those two areas are the only ones on the WCML

so when the 805/7s come out they will be limited to 110 on most of the line?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

so when the 805/7s come out they will be limited to 110 on most of the line?

Depends how many speed limits get increased.

 

[Efini92]

so when the 805/7s come out they will be limited to 110 on most of the line?

In some places lower. I can’t see them being able to do more than 90 through linslade tunnel.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There was a plan to bring in a new speed profile north of Preston for TPE 397's. Has that died a death now? Clearly would be useful for any 125mph capable stock

Any news on when the new MU speed profile for the 805/807's goes live south of Weaver Jn? I guess that will be an important element for testing and driver training. Is there special dispensation to test at 125mph currently on certain 'straight' sections of track?

The Western Sectional Appendix says that class 80x is an HST (along with 91/Mk4, 22x, 180 and others) rather than MU.
I don't know if that is different to MU for 80x.

 

[Efini92]

The Western Sectional Appendix says that class 80x is an HST (along with 91/Mk4, 22x, 180 and others) rather than MU.
I don't know if that is different to MU for 80x.

I’m pretty sure they can use both.

 

[hexagon789]

The Western Sectional Appendix says that class 80x is an HST (along with 91/Mk4, 22x, 180 and others) rather than MU.
I don't know if that is different to MU for 80x.

80x can use MU speeds as well.

 

[The Planner]

In some places lower. I can’t see them being able to do more than 90 through linslade tunnel.

Will dig out the profile, but I dont think its that low.

 

[Railperf]

I would suggest dormant is the correct word for it. South of Weaver is still not signed off properly.

You mean dormant in the sense that it is more than a reposting exercise requiring extensive civils and no business case to pay for it until London to Glasgow HS2 trains require it. Probably no business case for TPE to fund it for just few mins gain each way between Preston and Glasgow/Edinburgh.

 

[The Planner]

You mean dormant in the sense that it is more than a reposting exercise requiring extensive civils and no business case to pay for it until London to Glasgow HS2 trains require it. Probably no business case for TPE to fund it for just few mins gain each way between Preston and Glasgow/Edinburgh.

I expect a number in £ was presented and strong coughs ensued.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Has any new speed signage gone up for the Avanti 80x south of Weaver Jn?
That's going to take time even when approved.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Has any new speed signage gone up for the Avanti 80x south of Weaver Jn?
That's going to take time even when approved.

are you saying they should put signs up before they're approved? If so, is that even allowed?

 

[hexagon789]

are you saying they should put signs up before they're approved? If so, is that even allowed?

EPS signs were put up on the Northern WCML in 2002 before drivers were using them.

Besides which, drivers don't drive off the signage anyway - rather memory. The signs are more to provide a clear indication of exactly where a restriction applies; they aren't an aide memoire.

 

[Boodiggy]

In some places lower. I can’t see them being able to do more than 90 through linslade tunnel.

Without checking I think the DF is 90 PS 100 MU and 125 EPS while the UF is 90 PS 125 EPS and no MU. Both lose the EPS differential. The DF has a higher speed for Voyagers than the UF currently.

Unless it’s a GBRF train.

They’ll go as far north as Blackpool in theory.

The trains will yes, but not the new MU speed profile.

 

[Efini92]

Without checking I think the DF is 90 PS 100 MU and 125 EPS while the UF is 90 PS 125 EPS and no MU. Both lose the EPS differential. The DF has a higher speed for Voyagers than the UF currently.


The trains will yes, but not the new MU speed profile.

DF is 90 ps 115/125 EPS. There’s no MU speeds south of Rugby.

 

[Boodiggy]

DF is 90 ps 115/125 EPS. There’s no MU speeds south of Rugby.

I know.
What I wrote is what the new speed will be when the MU speed profile is introduced and the EPS differential is removed, according to the proposed Table A diagrams.

 

[Meerkat]

I know.
What I wrote is what the new speed will be when the MU speed profile is introduced and the EPS differential is removed, according to the proposed Table A diagrams.

Are you saying that the 390s will have to go slower just so a sign can be put up for the new trains to go a bit faster?

 

[Meyrick]

Are you saying that the 390s will have to go slower just so a sign can be put up for the new trains to go a bit faster?

I don't think so, you can have multiple speed limit boards. There'll be a PS, EPS and MU board most likely.

 

[hexagon789]

Are you saying that the 390s will have to go slower just so a sign can be put up for the new trains to go a bit faster?

No, they'll still use the EPS speed of 125.

The differential being removed is the differing EPS speeds for 221s and 390s.

 

[Boodiggy]

Are you saying that the 390s will have to go slower just so a sign can be put up for the new trains to go a bit faster?

No - 390s will still go at 125mph. There will be no Voyagers so no EPS differential. The new trains (and other trains classified as MU) will run at the new MU profile and everything else at the existing PS speeds.
It really is simple not sure how I have managed to confuse everyone .

 

[Some guy]

Are you saying that the 390s will have to go slower just so a sign can be put up for the new trains to go a bit faster?

No that won’t be the case it will just mean every 125mph capable train can run on the WCML where allowed

 

[Meerkat]

No - 390s will still go at 125mph. There will be no Voyagers so no EPS differential. The new trains (and other trains classified as MU) will run at the new MU profile and everything else at the existing PS speeds.
It really is simple not sure how I have managed to confuse everyone .

Ah, I get you. I took it as differential from PS not differential between two EPS speeds. Thanks

 

[Boodiggy]

Ah, I get you. I took it as differential from PS not differential between two EPS speeds. Thanks

Perfect. Apologies if I could have explained it better - and didn’t.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Besides which, drivers don't drive off the signage anyway - rather memory. The signs are more to provide a clear indication of exactly where a restriction applies; they aren't an aide memoire.

The signs are expensively installed on gravity pads, and there are likely to be more of them with the new profile (maybe not at Linslade).
And there will be a period, as now, when 80x are limited to 110 while Voyagers have their EPS profile, then an overnight(?) switch with a new more complicated profile with MU speeds and no EPS differentials.
That seems like a lot of new "memory" to learn. Or am I being overdramatic?
EPS speeds were introduced gradually as new sections of line were upgraded, while this change looks like a big bang.

 

[hexagon789]

The signs are expensively installed on gravity pads, and there are likely to be more of them with the new profile (maybe not at Linslade).
And there will be a period, as now, when 80x are limited to 110 while Voyagers have their EPS profile, then an overnight(?) switch with a new more complicated profile with MU speeds and no EPS differentials.
That seems like a lot of new "memory" to learn. Or am I being overdramatic?
EPS speeds were introduced gradually as new sections of line were upgraded, while this change looks like a big bang.

There will still be three speed profiles.

Simply Voyager EPS gets replaced by an new MU profile. The speeds are different but the number of profiles is the same.

Partly comparable to having to learn a whole new profile from scratch when the EPS speeds came in originally presumably?

 

[YourMum666]

can the new trains do 115 on the wcml without eps

 

[Bald Rick]

can the new trains do 115 on the wcml without eps

They can do whatever the new MU profile permits, with A maximum of 125.