Pronunciation of Shrewsbury

[Proud Salopian]

Just seen the earlier discussion in this thread re: Salop etc. As a Salopian I'll point out the basics:

Salop = Shrewsbury or Shropshire (the county of Shrewsbury/Salop)
Floreat Salopia = the motto of both the county and the town ("may Shrewsbury/Shropshire flourish")
Salopian = somebody from either Shrewsbury or Shropshire

The origin seems to be from the Norman conquerers - they couldn't pronounce either Shrewsbury or Shropshire, so instead said "Salop"... which, yes, is "bitch" in French. Quite possibly they did this as the English names were so hard for them to say!

Salop/Salopian is still used quite a bit within the county, for example many companies are called "Salopian..." or "Salop..." and fans of Shrewsbury Town FC will chant "come on Salop" "Salop Salop Salop!" etc. Milestones, etc, use "Salop" to mean the distance to the centre of Shrewsbury. "Wellington Salop" is Wellington railway station in Shropshire - now usually written as "Wellington Shropshire" though. The "Floreat Salopia" motto is also well used and well known, including for Shrewsbury Town FC.

As for the pronunciation of Shrewsbury - it is either Shroosbury or Shrowsbury. Remember that until quite recently (mid-20th century) "ew" in writing could mean an "ow" sound. The only word (that I can think of) that still uses this is "to sew a button". Until the 1950s or so, the word "show" would usually be spelled as "shew". I'm saying all this as a partial/possible explanation of the Shrowsbury variation, as the "ew" in Shrewsbury historically could readily be immediately regarded as an "ow" sound by many English speakers. What is actually correct is hotly debated and frankly there is no answer. Another connection/explanation of the Shrowsbury variation is that the county's name Shrop-shire does hint at that variation of the town's name being historical.

Someone mentioned Leominster being in the county... Herefordshire! Sorry!

 

[Wolfie]

Just seen the earlier discussion in this thread re: Salop etc. As a Salopian I'll point out the basics:

Salop = Shrewsbury or Shropshire (the county of Shrewsbury/Salop)
Floreat Salopia = the motto of both the county and the town ("may Shrewsbury/Shropshire flourish")
Salopian = somebody from either Shrewsbury or Shropshire

The origin seems to be from the Norman conquerers - they couldn't pronounce either Shrewsbury or Shropshire, so instead said "Salop"... which, yes, is "bitch" in French. Quite possibly they did this as the English names were so hard for them to say!

Salop/Salopian is still used quite a bit within the county, for example many companies are called "Salopian..." or "Salop..." and fans of Shrewsbury Town FC will chant "come on Salop" "Salop Salop Salop!" etc. Milestones, etc, use "Salop" to mean the distance to the centre of Shrewsbury. "Wellington Salop" is Wellington railway station in Shropshire - now usually written as "Wellington Shropshire" though. The "Floreat Salopia" motto is also well used and well known, including for Shrewsbury Town FC.

As for the pronunciation of Shrewsbury - it is either Shroosbury or Shrowsbury. Remember that until quite recently (mid-20th century) "ew" in writing could mean an "ow" sound. The only word (that I can think of) that still uses this is "to sew a button". Until the 1950s or so, the word "show" would usually be spelled as "shew". I'm saying all this as a partial/possible explanation of the Shrowsbury variation, as the "ew" in Shrewsbury historically could readily be immediately regarded as an "ow" sound by many English speakers. What is actually correct is hotly debated and frankly there is no answer. Another connection/explanation of the Shrowsbury variation is that the county's name Shrop-shire does hint at that variation of the town's name being historical.

Someone mentioned Leominster being in the county... Herefordshire! Sorry!

What an erudite and informative response (even if completely off topic!) - I learned a whole lot new there and had other things which I had known before linked in a new way, thank you.

I go Shrewsbury, Shrove sounds wrong and incorrect to me. Although am originally from the Somerset so it could be why. Most in Shropshire at least in Bridgnorth, Highley say it as Shrove

Well, as a Salopian myself, I would say "Shrew" every time...

 

[PHILIPE]

Another story I have heard is that it is as in "Shrove" on the banks of the Severn and "SHREW" anywhere else.

 

[merlodlliw]

Another story I have heard is that it is as in "Shrove" on the banks of the Severn and "SHREW" anywhere else.

how do Virgin staff announce the town

 

[Proud Salopian]

Another story I have heard is that it is as in "Shrove" on the banks of the Severn and "SHREW" anywhere else.

Nobody says "Shovesbury" though - it's either Shroos (or even Shooos) or Shrows -bury.

As for "north of the Severn".. "by the banks of the Severn"... which school.. blah blah blah - it's nothing like that. It will depend on what your parents say, what your fellow villagers say, etc. And whilst in the past people who didn't pick up a pronunciation that way would look at the spelling and think either "ow" or "oo" (as the "ew" element in the name could work either way) these days most will look at the place name and think immediately "oo" is correct, as the writing of "ew" for that "oo" sound no longer is used (with the exception of "to sew a button").

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Used to be a good old boy train announcer who emphasised the "Shrow - sbury" - a good introduction to a nice station and city ! ....

Am talking 1977 here BTW !

 

[krus_aragon]

Just seen the earlier discussion in this thread re: Salop etc. As a Salopian I'll point out the basics:

And very nicely put too. Thank you.

In reference to the earlier poster asking after the Welsh name, a rough guide to pronounciation of Yr Amwythig would be:

Err a-MUY-thick, where muy is pronounced as the Spanish "muy bien", or like "moo-ey" condensed into one short syllable.

The definitive article "Yr" (the) is often dropped in modern day usage, leaving just Amwythig.

As to the meaning of Amwythig, I've never been too sure, other than recognising it as being an adjective. A glance at the University of Wales Dictionary suggests amwythig or amnwythig as meaning brave or warlike (so "the brave", or "the warlike"), but I can't think of a particular historic reason why the people of Shrewsbury should be described thus.

The dictionary also lists a second meaning for the root word amwyth, meaning to contend or fight for. This sounds more likely for an ancient border town, ("the fought-over place") and dovetails with Wikipedia's suggestion that it means "fortified place".

I was interested to learn, while looking for an answer, that the University of Wales are currently doing a survey of Welsh place names in Shropshire/Salop, as a contribution the the English Place-name Society's survey of placenames of Shropshire.. They expect to finish the work next year.

 

[Proud Salopian]

...a good introduction to a nice station and city...

Town!!

The proud Salopian would say "...a first-class town, not a second-rate city..."

And very nicely put too. Thank you.

In reference to the earlier poster asking after the Welsh name, a rough guide to pronounciation of Yr Amwythig would be:

Err a-MUY-thick, where muy is pronounced as the Spanish "muy bien", or like "moo-ey" condensed into one short syllable.

The definitive article "Yr" (the) is often dropped in modern day usage, leaving just Amwythig.

As to the meaning of Amwythig, I've never been too sure, other than recognising it as being an adjective. A glance at the University of Wales Dictionary suggests amwythig or amnwythig as meaning brave or warlike (so "the brave", or "the warlike"), but I can't think of a particular historic reason why the people of Shrewsbury should be described thus.

The dictionary also lists a second meaning for the root word amwyth, meaning to contend or fight for. This sounds more likely for an ancient border town, ("the fought-over place") and dovetails with Wikipedia's suggestion that it means "fortified place".

I was interested to learn, while looking for an answer, that the University of Wales are currently doing a survey of Welsh place names in Shropshire/Salop, as a contribution the the English Place-name Society's survey of placenames of Shropshire.. They expect to finish the work next year.

It does seem that the Welsh name pertains to the place being a fort/a town fortified [by the warlike Saxons?]. The English name comes from "fortified place (borough) in the scrub [shrub]-land".

 

[eisenach]

While in the County, Lemster, some say LEOminister in full.

Leominster is in Herefordshire, not Salop. I've lived nearby for 30 years. In my experience, the only people who say LEOminster are the ones who don't live there !
Lemster for the locals, though our kids call it Lemner, amongst other unrepeatable things !

 

[Proud Salopian]

Leominster is in Herefordshire, not Salop. I've lived nearby for 30 years. In my experience, the only people who say LEOminster are the ones who don't live there !
Lemster for the locals, though our kids call it Lemner, amongst other unrepeatable things !

Yes, no-one calls it "Leo-minster" - it is universally (by those who know of the place) called Lem-ster (give or take a dialect!) Also nearby, and also in Herefordshire, is the former borough (alas, since the 1830s just a parish) of Weobley, which is also pronounced without the "o".

Interestingly, here is a milestone (now in a museum) with the town written as Lemster:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Leominster_Museum_-_2014-07-11_-_Andy_Mabbett_-_01.JPG

 

[merlodlliw]

Leominster is in Herefordshire, not Salop. I've lived nearby for 30 years. In my experience, the only people who say LEOminster are the ones who don't live there !
Lemster for the locals, though our kids call it Lemner, amongst other unrepeatable things !

I got the wrong County, I once knew a chap from Chester, who called Chichester, Chi Chester

 

[Proud Salopian]

I got the wrong County, I once knew a chap from Chester, who called Chichester, Chi Chester

:? Erm, isn't that how you pronounce it?

 

[Clip]

:? Erm, isn't that how you pronounce it?

no its chich ester I do think

 

[Dolge]

"I once knew a chap from Chester, who called Chichester, Chi Chester"

Everyone does. There's a Chichester St just off the town centre which everyone in my experience calls Chi Chester St.

 

[Proud Salopian]

no its chich ester I do think

Yeah, I would say it in one go, but where-ever you put a 'gap' (or not, like me) in the name, it's pretty much pronounced as it is spelled. Which is why I'm pondering a bit...

 

[muddythefish]

In case anyone goes there, Cogenhoe near Northampton is pronounced Cook know.

On the Shrewsbury debate, I've always said Shrowsbury. Sounds a bit posher.

 

[Busaholic]

I got the wrong County, I once knew a chap from Chester, who called Chichester, Chi Chester

People who live nearby say 'I'm going into Chi' even though they wouldn't pronounce the whole name that way.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On the Shrewsbury debate, I've always said Shrowsbury. Sounds a bit posher.

Now then, I live in a "very posh" area and use the ATW service from Wilmslow to Shrewsbury that just has one intermediate stop at Crewe and at the booking office, but I always refer to "Shroos-bury" as my intended destination.

 

[pne]

People who live nearby say 'I'm going into Chi' even though they wouldn't pronounce the whole name that way.

Is that Chi as in the Greek letter ("ky", rhymes with "sky")?

 

[AM9]

Now then, I live in a "very posh" area and use the ATW service from Wilmslow to Shrewsbury that just has one intermediate stop at Crewe and at the booking office, but I always refer to "Shroos-bury" as my intended destination.

Ah but that's northern posh. Home counties (AKA Radio 4) posh including some from 'Snorbens' say 'Shrowsbury'.

 

[Proud Salopian]

Is that Chi as in the Greek letter ("ky", rhymes with "sky")?

I can imagine (in the modern day) a shortened/colloquial form of Chichester as "Chy", but not a "ky" but "ch-i" (rhyming still with sky). But as Busaholic said, you wouldn't pronounce the city's full name as Chy-chester (ie the first element rhyming with sky)! I suppose if you did people would think you're somehow taking the Michael...

 

[philjo]

My Dad used to live in Shrewsbury and insists it is pronounced as Shrowsbury. He says that it was generally pronounced that way for those living in the town but those living in the surrounding county pronounced it as Shroosbury. (I also know some folks from Shropshire that call it Shoes-bury)

Good job there isn't a station at Ratlinghope !

 

[muddythefish]

Now then, I live in a "very posh" area and use the ATW service from Wilmslow to Shrewsbury that just has one intermediate stop at Crewe and at the booking office, but I always refer to "Shroos-bury" as my intended destination.

Posh but lacking class? Looks like you're wrong anyway (see above)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Posh but lacking class? Looks like you're wrong anyway (see above)

Lacking class...moi..hock: I may be descended from the historical Polish nobility for all you know...

Looking at my own county of Cheshire, how would you pronounce Cholmondeley?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

My Dad used to live in Shrewsbury and insists it is pronounced as Shrowsbury. He says that it was generally pronounced that way for those living in the town but those living in the surrounding county pronounced it as Shroosbury.

Cheshire is very much a "surrounding county"....so I fall into that category.... and you show this as a precedent for my way of pronunciation.

 

[Bevan Price]

Perhaps they could solve the pronunciation "problem" by reverting to one of the earlier versions of the name, i.e. Scrobbesbyrig, or Sciropsberie, meaning (in Old English) "Fortified place of the scrubland region" according to the Oxford Dictionary of British Place Nanes.

 

[muddythefish]

Lacking class...moi..hock: I may be descended from the historical Polish nobility for all you know...

Looking at my own county of Cheshire, how would you pronounce Cholmondeley?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

.

As a guess, Chumley ?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As a guess, Chumley ?

Rather a well phrased and correct answer. You are hereby awarded an honorary position as guest contestant on the General Knowledge Quiz..

 

[AM9]

Lacking class...moi..hock: I may be descended from the historical Polish nobility for all you know...

With all due respect, the Polish nobility would not necessarily be the first port of call for english pronunciation guidance, unless a Polish accent was required.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

With all due respect, the Polish nobility would not necessarily be the first port of call for english pronunciation guidance, unless a Polish accent was required.

Very true. French was always the court language of choice of my artistocratic ancestors, whom I am sure were partly connected to The Duchy of Courtland and Semigallia.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

"I once knew a chap from Chester, who called Chichester, Chi Chester"

There's a Chichester near Sunderland which is pronounced Chi Chester.

How do people pronounce 'pronunciation'? How many say 'pronounciation' ?