Purse stolen before TOD

Status
Not open for further replies.

Max

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
5,369
Location
Cardiff
A friend has had her purse stolen and is travelling tomorrow from Sheffield to Peterborough. She bought the ticket online from EC but hasn't collected it yet, but the card it was booked on is now gone. She called EC customer services who said she would have to pay to travel to Doncaster (nearest EC station) and take photo ID, but the ID has been stolen! Any thoughts on how she can get this sorted?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

tannedfrog

Member
Joined
26 Jun 2010
Messages
537
She should take any other ID she can find, passport etc, proof of address, printout of booking confirmation. She can try this first at Sheffield station. If not, she can buy the ticket to Doncaster and try again there.
 

Clip

On Moderation
Joined
28 Jun 2010
Messages
10,616
Can only echo above..

Though with a TOC that I used to work for if a ticket was bought via them with a card then they just unrestricted the card so that any could be used if a manager could verify the person matched with the print out and ID..

i dont see why more TOCs dont do this.
 

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
8,767
What happens if you get pickpocketed on the train, with the ticket stolen and no money to pay for a new ticket?
 

AlterEgo

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
12,124
Location
No longer here
Though with a TOC that I used to work for if a ticket was bought via them with a card then they just unrestricted the card so that any could be used if a manager could verify the person matched with the print out and ID..

i dont see why more TOCs dont do this.

Because the rail industry got hit by an almighty fraud in Manchester run by Nigerians.

To the OP - contact the retailer of your ticket, who should be able to update the status of your booking to either allow collection with a different card, or collection at a booking office.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
What happens if you get pickpocketed on the train, with the ticket stolen and no money to pay for a new ticket?

Depends - strictly speaking it's a UFN.
 

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
8,767
Depends - strictly speaking it's a UFN.

What happens if you only realise you have lost your ticket and wallet when you get to ticket barriers at the other end? I would be very concerned about getting a life ending criminal record through no fault of my own.
 

Mike395

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
23 May 2009
Messages
2,389
Location
Bedford
What happens if you only realise you have lost your ticket and wallet when you get to ticket barriers at the other end? I would be very concerned about getting a life ending criminal record through no fault of my own.

I would hope that a barrier attendant/RPI would be to read body language to ascertain that the wallet really did go missing, and in my view a UFN should be issued (although how they would verify your address if your wallet had been stolen I don't know....)
 

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
8,767
(although how they would verify your address if your wallet had been stolen I don't know....)

That's the problem. You can't prove anything if you haven't got your wallet. I wonder if there are precautions one can take against this. Maybe if you take a picture of your ticket and upload it to the internet while on the train. Buying your ticket online would give you an audit trail, and if you have to buy at a ticket office then if you buy with a card then there will be some proof you bought a ticket.
 

Clip

On Moderation
Joined
28 Jun 2010
Messages
10,616
That's the problem. You can't prove anything if you haven't got your wallet. I wonder if there are precautions one can take against this. Maybe if you take a picture of your ticket and upload it to the internet while on the train. Buying your ticket online would give you an audit trail, and if you have to buy at a ticket office then if you buy with a card then there will be some proof you bought a ticket.

But that is frought with problems as someone could easily do that with a ticket they have bought on their mates phone and then bingo - 2 for the price of one can travel
 

ian13

Member
Joined
17 Jul 2008
Messages
166
That's the problem. You can't prove anything if you haven't got your wallet. I wonder if there are precautions one can take against this. Maybe if you take a picture of your ticket and upload it to the internet while on the train. Buying your ticket online would give you an audit trail, and if you have to buy at a ticket office then if you buy with a card then there will be some proof you bought a ticket.

I'd consent to BTP being called, and a search being performed / crime report taken.
 

barrykas

Established Member
Joined
19 Sep 2006
Messages
1,579
To the OP - contact the retailer of your ticket, who should be able to update the status of your booking to either allow collection with a different card, or collection at a booking office.

In general, all this consists of is updating the remarks on the booking with the details (if they bother at all)...The CTR itself will still be flagged in the ToD system as "Same Card Collection", and not all Ticket Offices can issue ToDs.

Cheers,

Barry
 

Flamingo

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2010
Messages
6,818
What happens if you get pickpocketed on the train, with the ticket stolen and no money to pay for a new ticket?

I get people who claim this about once a fortnight on average.

Usually I issue a UFN (unless they qualify for an oscar) if somebody I have had before with the same story (which often happens), or on ringing to confirm address I find they already have an outstanding UFN, then off at the next stop and if available, revenue or BTP.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
What happens if you only realise you have lost your ticket and wallet when you get to ticket barriers at the other end? I would be very concerned about getting a life ending criminal record through no fault of my own.

A UFN is simply an invoice to pay the fare within 10 days. It's only if it is not paid that the possibility of any further action exists.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'd consent to BTP being called, and a search being performed / crime report taken.

Well, that would be up to you to arrange, but you would still need to buy another ticket / pay a UFN
 
Last edited:

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
24,489
Location
Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
I had a similar issue in London before i was due to travel to York. I was pick pocketed on the underground and my wallet was stolen with all of my ticket detials in it. I was really worried about it as the only ID i had left was my season ticket picture card.

I went to the BTP office at Kings Cross, made a crime report and spoke to a police officer. They then went with me to the Kings Cross station manager who arrnaged with the EC manager on duty and the train gaurd for me to be allowed to travel on the next EC service to York (which i wasnt booked on as i had missed my booked train reporting the crime) and arranged me a replacement return ticket.

They were really, really good, kind & helpful people. Perhaps the key was that i had reported the crime but they couldnt do enougth to help.
 

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
8,767
A UFN is simply an invoice to pay the fare within 10 days. It's only if it is not paid that the possibility of any further action exists.

But what about if you encounter 'zero-tolerance' FCC-type RPIs? Judging by posts made on here, they seem to go straight for prosecution.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I had a similar issue in London before i was due to travel to York. I was pick pocketed on the underground and my wallet was stolen with all of my ticket detials in it. I was really worried about it as the only ID i had left was my season ticket picture card.

I went to the BTP office at Kings Cross, made a crime report and spoke to a police officer. They then went with me to the Kings Cross station manager who arrnaged with the EC manager on duty and the train gaurd for me to be allowed to travel on the next EC service to York (which i wasnt booked on as i had missed my booked train reporting the crime) and arranged me a replacement return ticket.

They were really, really good, kind & helpful people. Perhaps the key was that i had reported the crime but they couldnt do enougth to help.

Did you have a ticket to get outside the Tube barriers? I'm not particularly worried about my wallet being stolen outside the Tube/rail system as the worst that can happen is that you have to get a new ticket. I'm far more concerned about not being able to show RPIs/ticket barrier staff a ticket when I have already travelled.
 

tannedfrog

Member
Joined
26 Jun 2010
Messages
537
But what about if you encounter 'zero-tolerance' FCC-type RPIs? Judging by posts made on here, they seem to go straight for prosecution.

I thought that as long as they got their £20 penalty fare paid on the spot they are usually happy to take it no further
 

Flamingo

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2010
Messages
6,818
Unfortunately, one of the most common excuses offered for having no ticket / railcard is "my wallet was stolen", which also neatly answers the next two questions (have you money / card to buy a new ticket. have you any ID to issue a UFN).

I DO see the same people giving it as an excuse, one paticular chap travelling around Bristol used to go one stage further and actually come find the guard and say "My wallet / bag has been stolen, can you help". The first time I was new, and running up and down the train, phoning stations, BTP etc, by the last time it was "Not you again, get the **** off my train".
 

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,370
Location
Llanelli
The best advice is probably to do your utmost to prevent being robbed or pickpocketed in the first place, but even then it can still happen, as I know to my cost.

However, when I was pickpockete din Amsterdam, I had placed my wallet and cash in a zipped inside pocket of my jacket, so the thief only laid hands on a bit of loose change (a 10 and 5 guilder note) from my trouser pocket.

I have also been physically attacked, but at least that left a mark on the side of my face which meant that people could see I had been assaulted (mind you, I wouldn't put it past some chancers to hit themselves to try and get away with free travel). But if you are set upon there's little you can do except keep your valuables as out of the way as possible.
 

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
8,767
I can live with an UFN as that does not lead to prosecution. But there are so many posts on here from people saying that proceedings are being taken against them, for reasons less serious than having no ticket or money.

Out of interest, is it possible to pay for an UFN over the phone or online?
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
24,489
Location
Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
Did you have a ticket to get outside the Tube barriers? I'm not particularly worried about my wallet being stolen outside the Tube/rail system as the worst that can happen is that you have to get a new ticket. I'm far more concerned about not being able to show RPIs/ticket barrier staff a ticket when I have already travelled.

I had my oyster card in another pocket so only found out when i got the the ticket machines
 

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
8,767
Ours have to be paid by post, send a cheque or card details along with the UNF notice.

That would concern me as I have to rely on the post arriving safely and the payment being not lost in the processing centre even if the letter did arrive. I would have no proof if I got a letter a month later saying that I hadn't paid yet.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
24,509
Location
UK
But what about if you encounter 'zero-tolerance' FCC-type RPIs? Judging by posts made on here, they seem to go straight for prosecution.

It's a bit odd with FCC, although you obviously don't know who you're going to encounter.

Many RPIs simply go for the PF when it's pretty clear and obvious (to an outsider like me that knows a little - although that can sometimes be a dangerous thing) they should be going for a prosecution. PFs are quick and easy though, and they frequently 'sell them' as a nice quick and easy way to get the person on his/her way, and then mention you can easily appeal. Sometimes I wonder why they don't just give someone with a perfectly valid ticket a PF and say 'hey, take this, give me £20 and appeal'!

RPIs on their own also seem to be the worst offenders for letting off obvious fare evaders, while happily dishing out PFs to those who offer no resistance at all. Can I blame them? Possibly not, but it still isn't helping deter the habitual offenders.

FCC also has a dedicated fraud detection team, which I have no problem with them having obviously, except my lovely friendly RPI that was harassing me joined it and he clearly loved the power. Hence holding me for nearly four hours to fill his notebook with the same question asked over and over for the whole period covered by my season ticket(s).

I haven't seen him since I complained and heard he'd been moved along the line, but if you met him then good luck - you'll need it. That said, if you were a fraudster then I'm on his side, but he still needs to be able to tell the difference and be sure he actually knows what he's doing!
 

sheff1

Established Member
Joined
24 Dec 2009
Messages
4,872
Location
Sheffield
FCC also has a dedicated fraud detection team, which I have no problem with them having obviously, except my lovely friendly RPI that was harassing me joined it and he clearly loved the power. Hence holding me for nearly four hours to fill his notebook with the same question asked over and over for the whole period covered by my season ticket(s).

Does an RPI really have the authority to hold someone for over 4 hours ?
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
24,509
Location
UK
No, but I was absolutely not going to leave and let him fill his notebook in my absence!

He did point out I was free to leave, but to do so would probably not have helped me. As it happened, however, an email sent shortly after did see it cancelled almost straight away - but that was down to me knowing who to contact and not something every customer may have been able to do.

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top