Qualified driver to London underground

[anglian96]

Hi all was just wondering if London underground take on already qualified mainline drivers? I know for trainees it's all internal and stuff but didn't know if it was different for qualified. Any infomation would be great. Thanks

 

[Aivilo]

No different sadly. Feel free to pm me

 

[Halfway Boy]

Full time drivers is internal only.

You can’t currently transfer licences between national rail and LU, however, there is progress being made on that front what I’m told but it will be internal only.

The present idea that the unions are pushing for and is gaining some traction, is that drivers can nominate overground and TfL Rail as depot transfers just like they can with other underground lines, this would also work the other direction.

Then they would simply be put on the training course without having to apply when their spot comes up.

So you would have to re-do the training, but you wouldn’t have to apply and you should be kept on your current salary rather than the trainee rate until you qualify.

 

[anglian96]

Full time drivers is internal only.

You can’t currently transfer licences between national rail and LU, however, there is progress being made on that front what I’m told but it will be internal only.

The present idea that the unions are pushing for and is gaining some traction, is that drivers can nominate overground and TfL Rail as depot transfers just like they can with other underground lines, this would also work the other direction.

Then they would simply be put on the training course without having to apply when their spot comes up.

So you would have to re-do the training, but you wouldn’t have to apply and you should be kept on your current salary rather than the trainee rate until you qualify.

Thanks for the infomation

 

[anglian96]

No different sadly. Feel free to pm me

Will do thanks

 

[up1989]

Full time drivers is internal only.

You can’t currently transfer licences between national rail and LU, however, there is progress being made on that front what I’m told but it will be internal only.

The present idea that the unions are pushing for and is gaining some traction, is that drivers can nominate overground and TfL Rail as depot transfers just like they can with other underground lines, this would also work the other direction.

Then they would simply be put on the training course without having to apply when their spot comes up.

So you would have to re-do the training, but you wouldn’t have to apply and you should be kept on your current salary rather than the trainee rate until you qualify.

Where did hear about this? It would be great if they did that, as I’ve heard conflicting information and as you may know the underground is notorious for rumours!

Personally I’d love it to be the case as it is stands myself a Bakerloo line driver isn’t considered qualified to drive for London overground on the Watford DC even though we sign most of the route (Harrow to Kilburn high road.)

 

[bramling]

Hi all was just wondering if London underground take on already qualified mainline drivers? I know for trainees it's all internal and stuff but didn't know if it was different for qualified. Any infomation would be great. Thanks

The answer is no, however it goes without saying that a mainline driver would stand a very good chance of getting through the selection process. The snag is that there’s no external vacancies at the moment.

 

[anglian96]

The answer is no, however it goes without saying that a mainline driver would stand a very good chance of getting through the selection process. The snag is that there’s no external vacancies at the moment.

Thanks

 

[up1989]

Hi all was just wondering if London underground take on already qualified mainline drivers? I know for trainees it's all internal and stuff but didn't know if it was different for qualified. Any infomation would be great. Thanks

You’d definitely be at an advantage with the selection process, however the most likely route in is either as a CSA or externally via the night tube route. There is a long waiting list, but there is a good turnover at some depots. My depot is relatively small by LUL standards and we’ve had 5 people leave the job since March, mainly retirees.

 

[anglian96]

You’d definitely be at an advantage with the selection process, however the most likely route in is either as a CSA or externally via the night tube route. There is a long waiting list, but there is a good turnover at some depots. My depot is relatively small by LUL standards and we’ve had 5 people leave the job since March, mainly retirees.

Thanks

 

[up1989]

Thanks

Out of interest who do you drive for at the moment and what makes you want the change?

 

[anglian96]

P

Out of interest who do you drive for at the moment and what makes you want the change?

Pm you mate

 

[baz962]

Where did hear about this? It would be great if they did that, as I’ve heard conflicting information and as you may know the underground is notorious for rumours!

Personally I’d love it to be the case as it is stands myself a Bakerloo line driver isn’t considered qualified to drive for London overground on the Watford DC even though we sign most of the route (Harrow to Kilburn high road.)

You still probably wouldn't sign the dc, as only Watford and Euston drivers plus a very small Willesden link sign it. Watford and the dc link would take years, though Euston has had some movement recently.

 

[up1989]

You still probably wouldn't sign the dc, as only Watford and Euston drivers plus a very small Willesden link sign it. Watford and the dc link would take years, though Euston has had some movement recently.

I wonder why the Watford DC is so popular as it can be a bit of a bone shaker in places!

 

[baz962]

I want to sign it for variety and cos I like Euston, I will be waiting a while.

 

[theking]

If that idea come about the only Overground depot you would get into is New Cross Gate, I doubt the members would allow external employees to be able to jump them in the transfers list.

Also I doubt many train drivers would want to transfer to LUL less wages and mind numbing ato work.

 

[up1989]

If that idea come about the only Overground depot you would get into is New Cross Gate, I doubt the members would allow external employees to be able to jump them in the transfers list.

Also I doubt many train drivers would want to transfer to LUL less wages and mind numbing ato work.

Simple answer to ATO is don’t go to an ATO line, the Bakerloo is not going to see automation before the end of the 2030s. The 72ts on the line have been pegged to begin to be replaced in 2035.

I also think the plans to resign all the picc has been paused as well meaning ATO is a far off reality for two lines.

I think the main benefit of LUL is the 43 days annual leave and being able to retire at 50 and the pension is probably one of the best in the industry.

On the pay side there is negotiations underway, first offer of 57500 was turned down by the unions, I think they are aiming for just under 60k p/a

 

[Aivilo]

But no overtime

 

[Class2ldn]

Already on 60k+ at my current Toc and getting another pay rise in October.
Why any mainline driver would want to go on the underground beats me but each to their own.
Can they really retire at 50 and is that on a full pension?

 

[Aivilo]

Pretty sure it was 55 when I was there but could be wrong.

 

[bramling]

Simple answer to ATO is don’t go to an ATO line, the Bakerloo is not going to see automation before the end of the 2030s. The 72ts on the line have been pegged to begin to be replaced in 2035.

I also think the plans to resign all the picc has been paused as well meaning ATO is a far off reality for two lines.

I think the main benefit of LUL is the 43 days annual leave and being able to retire at 50 and the pension is probably one of the best in the industry.

On the pay side there is negotiations underway, first offer of 57500 was turned down by the unions, I think they are aiming for just under 60k p/a

The other advantage of LU is a wider range of career opportunities within the same company. In particular control / signalling grades on LU are generally much better paid than on the big railway, and for those who want a taste of “old railway” there are still a couple of grades which allow competence to be maintained in all of trains, station operation and signalling.

 

[bionic]

You would have to be out of your mind to want to go from a 4 day week mainline driving to a 5 day week LU job tunnel work with no variety, no OT, 3 out of 4 weekends, no priv and being in the pool with shifts and rest days for next week only published a few days before. You'd have no choice of depot so likelihood is ATO or miles from home (or both) and once SSR goes fully ATO they'll be coming for pay and conditions... its common knowledge and was published in the same document that said every ticket office will close.

You wouldnt be able to move across anyway, not directly, but even if you could you'd be sent to the most junior depots or maybe have to do night tube indefinitely. There has always been a trickle of LU drivers going to mainline but I've never heard of anyone daft enough to go the other way.

 

[Halfway Boy]

If that idea come about the only Overground depot you would get into is New Cross Gate, I doubt the members would allow external employees to be able to jump them in the transfers list.

Also I doubt many train drivers would want to transfer to LUL less wages and mind numbing ato work.

Depends on what you want.

If you’re overground you’d get slightly less money on LU, but you’d get more leave, and the mafia is one of the main attractions of the T/Op grade tbh.

Give the mafia guy your preferences - whether that’s childcare, or being at university, specific rest days and he’ll schedule your shifts accordingly. I get the shifts I want and I’ve never missed a wedding, birthday, or any family event since I became a T/Op without having to use any leave because I text the mafia guy and he sorts it. As far as shift work goes that’s pretty much unheard of.

And if you want to be a night man that is a very sweet gig, in fact that is all I will say about it in a public forum.

 

[anglian96]

After speaking to severeal people and hearing feedback on this forum I think ill stay mainline lol thanks guys

 

[up1989]

There have been a few mainline drivers I know of who have come on to the underground, as there are some benefits that worked for them. Mainly depot locations and the LRT pass.

At the end of the day both LUL and main line are very good positions to be in as depending on what suits.

Personally I’d like to go and train as a mainline driver at some point (providing I pass the recruitment process). But this would be because I’d like a new challenge and hopefully work a bit closer to home.

 

[bionic]

I think the main point here is that even if you wanted to make the switch, LU do not take full time drivers 'off the street'. So unless you want night tube or to work on platforms indefinitely then its just not an option.

A mainline driver is not a qualified LU driver any more than an LU driver is a qualified mainline driver. You have the ludicrous situation where drivers on LU lines that run parallel to NR lines are taught emergency protection for NR but don't have PTS so can't go onto the NR lines anyway. The LU lines that actually go over NR tracks have very basic and route-specific NR rules glossed over in half a day.

 

[Jimbo12345]

You would have to be out of your mind to want to go from a 4 day week mainline driving to a 5 day week LU job tunnel work with no variety, no OT, 3 out of 4 weekends, no priv and being in the pool with shifts and rest days for next week only published a few days before. You'd have no choice of depot so likelihood is ATO or miles from home (or both) and once SSR goes fully ATO they'll be coming for pay and conditions... its common knowledge and was published in the same document that said every ticket office will close.

You wouldnt be able to move across anyway, not directly, but even if you could you'd be sent to the most junior depots or maybe have to do night tube indefinitely. There has always been a trickle of LU drivers going to mainline but I've never heard of anyone daft enough to go the other way.

What document are you referring to? I can see new joiners on different pay/t&c’s in the future but not established operators. What are your thoughts?

 

[bionic]

What document are you referring to? I can see new joiners on different pay/t&c’s in the future but not established operators. What are your thoughts?

The "Operational Strategy Discussion Paper" dated July 2011. This was infamously leaked to the trade unions at the time so most LU staff saw or heard about it. The document outlined how all ticket offices would be closed and the SAMF grade abolished, it also outlined how the Train Operator grade is planned to be restructured once over 50% of the Underground is ATO.

The spectacular failure to deliver both SSR and Deep Tube upgrades in anything close to the time predicted in 2011 has put the planned restructuring of the driver role back, but the general gist of it was that the current train operator grade would be abolished like SAMF was, with a new grade of "Automatic Train Operator" as well as the interesting-sounding "Automatic Train Supervisor". Things like rest day working would be introduced and the current agreements would go out the window.

Obviously there has been 8 years and a change of mayor since then, but it will be very interesting to see what does happen once the SSR network is fully ATO. Presumably the Bakerloo will be the safest place for existing LU drivers. I wouldn't want to be on an ATO line when they eventually decide to swing the axe.

 

[bramling]

The "Operational Strategy Discussion Paper" dated July 2011. This was infamously leaked to the trade unions at the time so most LU staff saw or heard about it. The document outlined how all ticket offices would be closed and the SAMF grade abolished, it also outlined how the Train Operator grade is planned to be restructured once over 50% of the Underground is ATO.

The spectacular failure to deliver both SSR and Deep Tube upgrades in anything close to the time predicted in 2011 has put the planned restructuring of the driver role back, but the general gist of it was that the current train operator grade would be abolished like SAMF was, with a new grade of "Automatic Train Operator" as well as the interesting-sounding "Automatic Train Supervisor". Things like rest day working would be introduced and the current agreements would go out the window.

Obviously there has been 8 years and a change of mayor since then, but it will be very interesting to see what does happen once the SSR network is fully ATO. Presumably the Bakerloo will be the safest place for existing LU drivers. I wouldn't want to be on an ATO line when they eventually decide to swing the axe.

I can definitely see there being an attempt to introduce a two-tier structure. To an extent events have overtaken as there’s already a, sort of, two-tier setup with night tube drivers.

It would be quite easy to introduce a lower grade for new entrants on ATO lines, with all existing drivers on protected earnings indefinitely. Of course the savings would only emerge in the medium and longer term, so being cynical one questions whether there’s much benefit to transient short-term managements, especially considering the unrest and disruption this may well cause. It doesn’t help that the stations reorganisation hasn’t exactly turned out well.

 

[387star]

Personally I admire underground drivers

Some of the tunnels are horribly hot and dusty plus there's no daylight
60k is good but you're working in central london .