Questions about driving trains.

[Rich McLean]

Driving through tunnels is just route knowledge. Signals are often lower down, normally at cab height. Some tunnels with gradients, such as the Severn Tunnel, have blue marker lights. The blue lights in the Severn Tunnel indicate the bottom of the gradient as an aid for the driver to take power for the incline.

Other than that as said above, its the same as driving a night

 

[A-driver]

The only example I can think of where additional training is given is the northern city line between Drayton park and moorgate. A seperate set of rules and regs operate down there but mainly to do with communication and a few slight changes to procedures taken from how London Underground operate (eg seperate rules for passing signals at danger, assisting trains, coasting without power etc). Plus the equipment down there is slightly different such as trip cocks etc.

 

[RPM]

Do you notice any differnce in performance between a full (and standing) train and ECS?

There's a small but noticeable difference in acceleration when a train is heavily loaded. The braking is pretty much unaffected because the air suspension is linked to the air brakes so a heavier train has slightly keener brakes. This applies to modern DMUs - I can't speak for other types of traction.

 

[mainframe444]

Isle of Wight?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---.

No, guess again!!

MF

 

[SkinnyDave]

Is driving at night completely different?
How does bad fog affect your driving? Is it route knowledge that is the key to these?

 

[jopsuk]

No, guess again!!

MF

Old Dalby test driver?

 

[notadriver]

Is driving at night completely different?
How does bad fog affect your driving? Is it route knowledge that is the key to these?

For me yes completely different and fog even worse. That's why ample time is given for route learning.

 

[SkinnyDave]

For me yes completely different and fog even worse. That's why ample time is given for route learning.

Can you see the speed limit signs etc with the headlights as they done seem that bright

 

[A-driver]

Can you see the speed limit signs etc with the headlights as they done seem that bright

The night headlight is designed/provided to reflect the signs aswell as to make the train visible to others so signs are normally visible at night. Saying that, many speed signs are invisible during daylight as they are hidden by foliage, graffiti or missing altogether!

No driver should be driving by reading the speed signs. You know them all before you even climb in the cab of a train-what the speeds are and their exact locations. The signs are just there as markers as to where speeds commence so you shouldn't need to read them at night/in fog.

One major difference some people find at night is that you have less sort of depth perception when judging distance than you do during daylight so you need to know your approach speeds to platforms and signals far better. Otherwise you either end up killing off too much speed too soon and crawling into stations or even worse you end up hitting then too fast.

 

[michael769]

Otherwise you either end up killing off too much speed too soon and crawling into stations

I remember last winter being on a train where that happened. I assumed at the time that the driver was new and was struggling to keep track of where he was in the dark.

 

[W230]

I didn't know speedset was banned due to power consumption-it was strictly banned on southern whilst I was driving there but as far as I was made aware that was due to reducing issues of speeding/fails to call etc because the driver had set speedset and lost concentration.

It's certainly not banned on TL side though we've been told SET banned it after drivers were using it to slow down for reds etc and someone went through a red. No idea if it's true though!

I only use speedset when going through wash plants.

I'll sometimes use it in the core on a 377 if only because it can make for a smoother ride between Kings Cross and Farringdon - the track rises and drops quite a bit through there and a nibble of the brakes on a 377 can sometimes be quite lumpy. It's quite popular with drivers on the AC side though as the 377 has a tendency to go well over 100mph if not kept an eye on!

 

[A-driver]

One issue that arises occasionally with 365 speed sets is that it's not in a very obvious location (at knee level) and can easily be knocked which means you try leaving a station and can't get above 3mph, even in full power. The light indicating it is active can be very dim in bright sunlight and so it can take a bit of fault finding to work out that the train isn't broken, it's just that the speedset had accidentally been activated! At least it's more obvious on 377s.

And I believe the southern banned speedset after a 70 mph spad not helped by its use-may be wrong though.

 

[JoeGJ1984]

It's been said on here before that TOCs don't like too much use of the highest braking steps, but I was wondering what drivers do when driving at 125mph have to stop - surely the best thing to do would be to kill off as much speed as possible as it takes a long time to stop from 125mph. Say put it in the highest brake step to reduce the speed to, say, 30mph, where they can then coast until near the station/red signal. Because by braking more slowly, you would increase the risk of overrunning?

 

[A-driver]

It's been said on here before that TOCs don't like too much use of the highest braking steps, but I was wondering what drivers do when driving at 125mph have to stop - surely the best thing to do would be to kill off as much speed as possible as it takes a long time to stop from 125mph. Say put it in the highest brake step to reduce the speed to, say, 30mph, where they can then coast until near the station/red signal. Because by braking more slowly, you would increase the risk of overrunning?

Knowing your route and traction should reduce overruns anyway. You learn approach speeds to stations so you shouldn't need to use higher brake steps as you describe- you know that you can use step 1 at the signal, need to be under 80 by the bridge, under 60 by tesco, about 40 at the next signal etc and can use other brake steps to adjust the braking as you go.

I don't drive at 125 but regularly approach stations at 100 and wouldn't go for the step 3 to kill off speed approach as you describe. The idea if using lower brake steps is that not only is it more comfortable and less likely to slide but also it leaves the higher steps free should you need them. So if, as I described above, you end up passing tesco at 85 as the brakes arnt that hot on that unit you still have step 2 and 3 to use to kill off that bit extra speed.

 

[notadriver]

It's been said on here before that TOCs don't like too much use of the highest braking steps, but I was wondering what drivers do when driving at 125mph have to stop - surely the best thing to do would be to kill off as much speed as possible as it takes a long time to stop from 125mph. Say put it in the highest brake step to reduce the speed to, say, 30mph, where they can then coast until near the station/red signal. Because by braking more slowly, you would increase the risk of overrunning?

The fastest i go is 100 mph. The braking point for the station at that speed is a long way before and only requires step 1 or 25% braking. That means I have masses in reserve if something were to go wrong such as a bit of sliding. There's a compromise between braking too early but the step 1 curve is what managers like to see on a download. Slowing down too quickly means a lot of wasted time running into the platform.

 

[455driver]

There's a compromise between braking too early but the step 1 curve is what managers like to see on a download.

Not on our lot, step 2 is normal (disc braked EMU fleet) and 3 used when required/late/bored etc!

 

[notadriver]

This is going to sound silly but whilst I sign a few routes as I'm still route learning 4 days and only driving one day a week, I haven't really gotten the chance to know the routes well enough to use step 2 braking points with confidence.

 

[Kneedown]

There's a small but noticeable difference in acceleration when a train is heavily loaded. The braking is pretty much unaffected because the air suspension is linked to the air brakes so a heavier train has slightly keener brakes. This applies to modern DMUs - I can't speak for other types of traction.

That'll be the "Variable Load Valve". Increases or decreases brake pressure relative to the loading of the vehicle.

 

[mainframe444]

Old Dalby test driver?

Correct.

It's part of my job to drive the SSL stock currently being tested.

MF

 

[notadriver]

Correct.

It's part of my job to drive the SSL stock currently being tested.

MF

Oh interesting. Are you qualified to drive on the main line as well ?

 

[mainframe444]

Oh interesting. Are you qualified to drive on the main line as well ?

Sadly not, though we are assessed to mainline standards.

Qualified to drive an 08, 47, and SSL on our infrastructure.

So 47714 sometimes gets a chance to stretch its wheels on our mainline, 75mph.....

MF

 

[DarloRich]

I have a question that has been rolling around in my mind for a while:

I have often wondered how/if driving style changes when driving a train from a DVT as compared with a locomotive? Is the control layout the same in the DVT as on the locomotive? Which "end" do you prefer driving from?

Finally, how does driving from a DBSO compare with driving form a true DVT – there doesn’t look to be to much space on the DBSO I have been in!

 

[Lockwood]

If you have to be signed on traction before you can use it, or use it under supervision (I'm guessing by someone signed on it already), how do you get to use new stock?

 

[notadriver]

If you have to be signed on traction before you can use it, or use it under supervision (I'm guessing by someone signed on it already), how do you get to use new stock?

You need to go on a training course to learn and then be passed out on the new stock. Passing out involves a theory exam, practical exam in the depot (faults and failures) and a drive on the mainline.

 

[david_VI]

I was going to ask something similiar to the braking steps..

I write activities for Train Sim, using the real timetables. I've noticed a lot of the time the physics of a particular train are just about spot on with the timetables being achievable without having to adjust things. It's quite amazing.

However I also notice a train that's timing is usually spot on will have a few stops where it would get to the station way earlier than timetabled. I thought this might be a flaw in Train sim with the route having an incorrect speed or grade between those stops.. (which is unlikely due to other times it being spot on).. Or it's because there is a lot of free time to allow for various things..

Also it relates to the braking question. In TS you can get away with speeding along and braking in high steps quite late. I suppose this is why you seem to get to some stations early. Because in real life it would take longer to get there due to the more gradual braking in step 1?

Am I assuming correctly?

Related, but the other way around... I don't know if there are any Class 90/DVT drivers here but I know with an EMU you can accelerate in high power settings (right?) but in something like a 90, do you have to really ease it up?

 

[Lockwood]

You need to go on a training course to learn and then be passed out on the new stock. Passing out involves a theory exam, practical exam in the depot (faults and failures) and a drive on the mainline.

Sorry, I wasn't quite clear on my question.
There's a new unit that's fresh out of the factory.
How does that training work? I understand that once you've got instructors trained you'd get trained and signed off. How does it work going up the chain? (How would the instructor be assessed as competent?)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
edit since replied to wrong thread

 

[W230]

In TS you can get away with speeding along and braking in high steps quite late. I suppose this is why you seem to get to some stations early. Because in real life it would take longer to get there due to the more gradual braking in step 1?

Am I assuming correctly?

No idea about TS but I wouldn't want to approach a station i'm booked to stop at with last minute step 3 braking. There's nothing in reserve if you start to slide/the unit doesn't have great brakes etc and it would be more uncomfortable for the passengers (and my trousers).

I suppose you could liken it to stopping at red traffic lights in a car. In theory you could speed right up and slam the anchors on last minute. You would still stop in time but there's no need to drive your car like this because you can't leave until the lights change (or when driving the train, until your booked time to depart).

I'm think there's a mention in our new driving policy (or somewhere) about not hurrying into stations where there is a couple of minutes wait time if you're on time, as they reckon sitting there for two minutes waiting for your booked time might upset the punters.

 

[ryan125hst]

I'm think there's a mention in our new driving policy (or somewhere) about not hurrying into stations where there is a couple of minutes wait time if you're on time, as they reckon sitting there for two minutes waiting for your booked time might upset the punters.

I can understand that. I went to University of Sheffield's open day last month and caught the 17:23 Northern Rail service back to Retford. There were four teenage girls (who had clearly come from Meadowhall as they had a few shopping bags with them) who were moaning that the train had been stopped for ages and wanted it to carry on. Looking at the timetable, it is scheduled to arrive into Sheffield at 17:05, so I can understand why, if they didn't realise this, they might moan.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Following on from DarloRich's post, how do you know when to shut of power when going through a neutral section when driving from the DVT. The pantograph is right at the back of the train, over 200 metres behind the driver. Also, how does this work when driving multiple units that are coupled together, say Class 350's or 379's? There might be three pantographs in use, so how do you know when you can apply power again. I'm guessing it's all down to route knowledge, but if you forget you are a 12 coach trains and think you are only 8 coaches, you could have a few problems.

 

[atlasduff47]

I can understand that. I went to University of Sheffield's open day last month and caught the 17:23 Northern Rail service back to Retford. There were four teenage girls (who had clearly come from Meadowhall as they had a few shopping bags with them) who were moaning that the train had been stopped for ages and wanted it to carry on. Looking at the timetable, it is scheduled to arrive into Sheffield at 17:05, so I can understand why, if they didn't realise this, they might moan.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Following on from DarloRich's post, how do you know when to shut of power when going through a neutral section when driving from the DVT. The pantograph is right at the back of the train, over 200 metres behind the driver. Also, how does this work when driving multiple units that are coupled together, say Class 350's or 379's? There might be three pantographs in use, so how do you know when you can apply power again. I'm guessing it's all down to route knowledge, but if you forget you are a 12 coach trains and think you are only 8 coaches, you could have a few problems.

Probably nothing to do with the driver, virtually everyone leaves Meadowhall feeling miserable and would probably moan at anything anyway!

 

[ryan125hst]

Probably nothing to do with the driver, virtually everyone leaves Meadowhall feeling miserable and would probably moan at anything anyway!

I know it wasn't anything to do with the driver, it was simply due to a booked 18 minute wait, but the passengers probably didn't know that. I was saying that I can see why they would prefer the train to be on the move longer but slower as passengers complain if the train is stationary for too long.

And I see what you mean about Meadowhall.