Questions for people who have used e-tickets

[6Gman]

Bring the ticket up slightly before you get to a barrier, disable auto brightness, put brightness up, sleep the screen, then just wake it at the barrier. Not sure why faff is needed.

That would be a "faff" for me since I don't know what any of those things mean (apart from "before you get to a barrier").

 

[6Gman]

Talk of phones and mobile devices is a bit of a red herring.

Almost all tickets for concerts and sporting events have tickets which contains a barcode. This is scanned on entry. This is an e-ticket. The barcode could also be shown on a phone, tablet etc. The main thing is that however you show the barcode it has to be capable of being scanned.

The same thing will happen with railway tickets. The ticket will effectively be a barcode.

Buy a ticket from a station and the ticket will be printed onto paper (probably bog roll but it might even by orange CCST at some places to kep traditionalists happy!)
Buy a ticket from a station ticket machine and it'll be printed onto paper (bog roll or maybe orange CCST). There might also be the option for it to be emailed to you.
Buy a ticket online and it'll be emailed to you and you could either show the barcode on a phone, print it at a station ticket machine or ask for it to be posted
Buy a ticket over the phone and it'll be emailed to you could either show the barcode on a phone, print it at a station ticket machine or ask for it to be posted

Whichever format the passenger chooses will displays the ticket details in readable form, along with seat reservations as per current practice.

The main issue that needs to be resolved is TfL for cross London journeys and travelcards.

There will be no requirement to own a smartphone to purchase or use a railway ticket.

I really don't get what the fuss is all about.....

I am grateful for that explanation. I had assumed that an e-ticket was something which existed only in electronic form (hence the 'e').

The industry can put barcodes, magnetic strips, QR codes, braille or pretty floral designs on my ticket for all I care.

Just let me buy them from a human being without recourse to my laptop, phone, I-phone, I-pad or any other bit of such technology.

Thank you.

 

[sheff1]

Talk of phones and mobile devices is a bit of a red herring.

Almost all tickets for concerts and sporting events have tickets which contains a barcode. This is scanned on entry. This is an e-ticket. The barcode could also be shown on a phone, tablet etc. The main thing is that however you show the barcode it has to be capable of being scanned.

The same thing will happen with railway tickets. The ticket will effectively be a barcode.

Buy a ticket from a station and the ticket will be printed onto paper (probably bog roll but it might even by orange CCST at some places to kep traditionalists happy!)
Buy a ticket from a station ticket machine and it'll be printed onto paper (bog roll or maybe orange CCST). There might also be the option for it to be emailed to you.
Buy a ticket online and it'll be emailed to you and you could either show the barcode on a phone, print it at a station ticket machine or ask for it to be posted
Buy a ticket over the phone and it'll be emailed to you could either show the barcode on a phone, print it at a station ticket machine or ask for it to be posted

Whichever format the passenger chooses will displays the ticket details in readable form, along with seat reservations as per current practice.

The main issue that needs to be resolved is TfL for cross London journeys and travelcards.

There will be no requirement to own a smartphone to purchase or use a railway ticket.

Thanks for that. If true, and I have no reason to believe it is not, then the industry poster who suggested that, in the not too distant future, I would need a smartphone if I wished to travel by train was clearly talking **** - I rather suspected as much when they failed to respond to my request for clarification.

 

[FQTV]

Although I have voted that I prefer eTickets, I am aware that they still have some significant weaknesses, mostly caused by inconsistent description, the failure (as described above) to make eTicketing a standard across all vending platforms, and shoddy development and/or implementation.

Train operating companies' seeming inability to engage with customers to understand issues and route/escalate them appropriately is a particular further frustration.

Take LNER for example: any kind of Anytime or Super/Off Peak return eTicket that they issue will have the words 'No Reservation' on the inbound coupon equivalent, even when seats have been reserved. It has been like this ever since the company started issuing eTickets five months ago.

 

[jthjth]

One way of solving the flat battery problem is to issue people with a permanent card. Think of something like a Nectar card. Tie that against your account for your online purchase. Then if your phone dies you can wave the card at the guard. He can scan it and the back end database can tie the card against the original purchase. Keep the card in your wallet. You might even call it a “rail-card”.....

 

[Haywain]

One way of solving the flat battery problem is to issue people with a permanent card. Think of something like a Nectar card. Tie that against your account for your online purchase. Then if your phone dies you can wave the card at the guard. He can scan it and the back end database can tie the card against the original purchase. Keep the card in your wallet. You might even call it a “rail-card”.....

Should we also issue a paper coupon to show what's on this card in case it can't be read?

 

[Joe Paxton]

Bring the ticket up slightly before you get to a barrier, disable auto brightness, put brightness up, sleep the screen, then just wake it at the barrier. Not sure why faff is needed.

I regard the above as a bit of a faff. The option to disable (and later re-enable) auto-brightness is often buried in the settings menu.

e-tickets are rightly agnostic as to the technology with which they are displayed - but nonetheless, having the option to use a decent app which can store and display e-tickets (with full screen brightness), seems no bad thing.

 

[jthjth]

Should we also issue a paper coupon to show what's on this card in case it can't be read?

Well I presume you are pulling my leg here. In my job we have to provide redundancy in systems, but we only have to tolerate a single failure. Here you are suggesting a two failure case. In reality, a plastic card with a well etched in bar code, together with a well printed number, lasts for years.

e-tickets work well for air travel, because there is redundancy. If your phone packs up at the gate they look your name up against your passport (ie the card I’m on about) on the computer and let you on. For rail travel there is currently no redundancy, with possible threats of dire consequences if your phone can’t be read. As an e-ticket is basically a token that points to the back end data base, there is no real reason why there can’t be a secondary token that also points to the same data.

 

[Wallsendmag]

If you think dealing with you phone a bit of a faff print out the ticket and do t go anywhere near you electronic device

 

[Wallsendmag]

I regard the above as a bit of a faff. The option to disable (and later re-enable) auto-brightness is often buried in the settings menu.

e-tickets are rightly agnostic as to the technology with which they are displayed - but nonetheless, having the option to use a decent app which can store and display e-tickets (with full screen brightness), seems no bad thing.

Sorry for the repetitive narrative but some people don’t seem to get it. e-Tickets are so agnostic about the device type that they don’t even require a device .PRINT THE TICKET IF YOU DON’T TRUST YOUR PHONE

 

[yorksrob]

Er - except a printer perhaps.

 

[Hadders]

Er - except a printer perhaps.

Print it at a TVM.... That will be available in future.

 

[yorksrob]

Print it at a TVM.... That will be available in future.

Well, there is that.

But then there's the whole:

-negotiating different screens to find the right ticket.
-Hoping it doesn't freeze if buying on your own computer.

I just have far more confidence in the process of having a conversation at the ticket window. Even if they're not immediately familiar with the ticket type, I can usually talk them through as they search.

 

[Bletchleyite]

e-tickets work well for air travel, because there is redundancy. If your phone packs up at the gate they look your name up against your passport (ie the card I’m on about) on the computer and let you on

This would be an advantage of requiring names on train tickets. But they aren't presently required and there are also disadvantages. I wonder if it should be an option to do so, with the benefits (e.g. showing ID instead of a ticket for a reprint) only available if you choose it.

 

[ashkeba]

If you think dealing with you phone a bit of a faff print out the ticket and do t go anywhere near you electronic device

6gman claims not to know what it means to display an e ticket, which would make printing it out difficult.

 

[ashkeba]

-Hoping it doesn't freeze if buying on your own computer.

What if it freezes? Turn it off and back in and open the link or email again.

I just have far more confidence in the process of having a conversation at the ticket window. Even if they're not immediately familiar with the ticket type, I can usually talk them through as they search.

I don't. I've yet to have a computer decide that my discounted ticket doesn't exist, refuse to believe a disabled foreigner and demand that I buy an Anytime ticket.

 

[smsm1]

Print it at a TVM.... That will be available in future.

I've noticed some e-tickets suggest you can take a code to Paypoint to get your ticket printed.

 

[crablab]

As an e-ticket is basically a token that points to the back end data base, there is no real reason why there can’t be a secondary token that also points to the same data.

This is incorrect. e-tickets are designed to contain the same data as on a paper ticket, which doesn't require any lookup at the gateline.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

If you think dealing with you phone a bit of a faff print out the ticket and do t go anywhere near you electronic device

Yes, because everybody carries a portable printer with them at all times, don't they?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is incorrect. e-tickets are designed to contain the same data as on a paper ticket, which doesn't require any lookup at the gateline.

However for an e-ticket (other than a bog-roll barcoded one) to exist a record in a database referring to it also exists (in the seller's database). This isn't used for revenue protection (though there is a database of inspections which is separate), but it is a thing.

 

[yorksrob]

What if it freezes? Turn it off and back in and open the link or email again.


I don't. I've yet to have a computer decide that my discounted ticket doesn't exist, refuse to believe a disabled foreigner and demand that I buy an Anytime ticket.

For a start, you don't know if its gone through or not, so you risk buying twice.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For a start, you don't know if its gone through or not, so you risk buying twice.

If you've received the email with the e-ticket attached within a minute or so it went through, if you haven't it didn't? Or if you have your bank's app you can check.

 

[ashkeba]

If you've received the email with the e-ticket attached within a minute or so it went through, if you haven't it didn't? Or if you have your bank's app you can check.

Indeed. This is only a problem if the computer freezes at the exact moment between pressing the final button and the purchase confirmation is displayed, plus you then don't get an email receipt or ticket copy. For paper/card tickets, you have the exact same problem, except online you only get a collection code instead of the ticket.

I've had vending machines crash between payment and printing but happily the bank has always been ok with cancelling the duplicate card charge. I wonder what those paying cash for paper do when that happens.

 

[ashkeba]

I regard the above as a bit of a faff. The option to disable (and later re-enable) auto-brightness is often buried in the settings menu.

e-tickets are rightly agnostic as to the technology with which they are displayed - but nonetheless, having the option to use a decent app which can store and display e-tickets (with full screen brightness), seems no bad thing.

Well, PassAndroid is free and will do it all for you from a passbook (pkpass) download, including turn up the brightness but other phones are available. It's been some time since I saw one without brightness control on the pull down by default, maybe six or so years.

While checking https://www.eurostar.com/be-en/travel-info/your-trip/getting-your-ticket I see eurostar call passbook files "wallet" files, which I think was Microsoft's sub-betamax alternative. So it's not only UK TOCs that are annoyingly confusing about e tickets?

 

[crablab]

I wonder what those paying cash for paper do when that happens.

This happens to be a bug with a very specific software version on one manufacturers TVMs and is only happens with card payments. Not ruling out issues with cash, but I think the issue you describe is a consequence of that known issue.

 

[CrispyUK]

I see eurostar call passbook files "wallet" files, which I think was Microsoft's sub-betamax alternative. So it's not only UK TOCs that are annoyingly confusing about e tickets?

Apple now call their app ‘Wallet’ rather than ‘Passbook’ so I suspect Eurostar are just keeping up with this

 

[smsm1]

I regard the above as a bit of a faff. The option to disable (and later re-enable) auto-brightness is often buried in the settings menu.

I've found with the newer Android versions I don't need to disable or enable the auto brightness, just increase the brightness or let the app to it for me. The OS uses several factors to auto set the brightness through machine learning rather than just light level such that increasing the screen brightness and then reducing the light by placing it on the barcode reader doesn't suddenly reduce the brightness again.

One pain point I had with the GA app when the current design first came out was the screen rotating cutting off the barcode as you put it down to be read, which was fairly quickly fixed when I pointed it out.

 

[robbeech]

A decent e-ticket app should automatically adjust brightness to an appropriate level. I don't know if there are any that do though.

Apple wallet put the phone on full brightness when you display an e-ticket on it.

 

[jagardner1984]

Two interesting points here.

Firstly I think there are always going to be exceptions / people who can't or won't use e-ticketing. However just as mobile banking was unheard of 20 years ago, and its now increasingly difficult to find branches to transact your business (I can't remember the last time I was sent a cheque, for example), its now the absolute norm. A smartphone has become the primary device most people have with them and use during most travel. So some method of keeping your travel pass on your smartphone seems to be extremely wise, and eTickets (I've used Avanti and Caledonian Sleeper's in recent weeks) seems pretty simple and well implemented. I suspect it will become increasingly the norm, and the amount of station concourses occupied by inefficient, clunky TVMs and ticket offices will naturally reduce over time. I am surprised given all the back end systems exist for eTicketing, that more TOCs don't incentivise its use with a nominal discount. I suspect that would rapidly drive growth and reduce costs for them.

That said, in this part of the world, it amazes me given the cost penalty for using a paper ticket on Glasgow Subway, and the widespread marketing of the free smartcards, how many people still queue in a line at a poorly staffed ticket office missing trains to collect their disposable ticket.

 

[infobleep]

Talk of phones and mobile devices is a bit of a red herring.

Almost all tickets for concerts and sporting events have tickets which contains a barcode. This is scanned on entry. This is an e-ticket. The barcode could also be shown on a phone, tablet etc. The main thing is that however you show the barcode it has to be capable of being scanned.

The same thing will happen with railway tickets. The ticket will effectively be a barcode.

Buy a ticket from a station and the ticket will be printed onto paper (probably bog roll but it might even by orange CCST at some places to kep traditionalists happy!)
Buy a ticket from a station ticket machine and it'll be printed onto paper (bog roll or maybe orange CCST). There might also be the option for it to be emailed to you.
Buy a ticket online and it'll be emailed to you and you could either show the barcode on a phone, print it at a station ticket machine or ask for it to be posted
Buy a ticket over the phone and it'll be emailed to you could either show the barcode on a phone, print it at a station ticket machine or ask for it to be posted

Whichever format the passenger chooses will displays the ticket details in readable form, along with seat reservations as per current practice.

The main issue that needs to be resolved is TfL for cross London journeys and travelcards.

There will be no requirement to own a smartphone to purchase or use a railway ticket.

I really don't get what the fuss is all about.....

The other issue that needs to be dealt with all the pairs of stations that don't offer e-tickets between them and don't go through TfL areas

Are there any figures as to what percentage of train tickets that can be purchase can be done so as e-tickets? What about the station to station travel. What percentage is covered?