Questions for people who have used e-tickets

[jfollows]

Understood, but are you able to elaborate on what bad experience(s) you had with an e-ticket?

I'm pretty sure I'm in general agreement with you that e-tickets are OK, that they're going to be even better when more widely used, and that m-tickets (or "e-tickets" which are really m-tickets) are bad.

Be that as it may, your original poll didn't ask people to vote based on their bad experiences.

However I'm happy to admit that I haven't had any bad experiences with an e-ticket, primarily because I have been fastidious in their use, only using them when I knew they were likely to be accepted without problem. Informed by many posts on this forum. To date I've only used them for Wilmslow-London Virgin/Avanti journeys. However I've commented recently in this thread that I'm about to take the plunge and use them with Northern/TPE. A year ago I'd have had more reservations and expected to run into problems, but I think next month I'll probably be OK. So things are moving on and improving. I certainly observe (from the bar above the ticket line at Manchester Piccadilly) how many people now use and presumable expect to use tickets on mobile devices.

 

[yorkie]

I'm pretty sure I'm in general agreement with you that e-tickets are OK, that they're going to be even better when more widely used, and that m-tickets (or "e-tickets" which are really m-tickets) are bad.

Be that as it may, your original poll didn't ask people to vote based on their bad experiences.

OK maybe not a bad experience, but why was it not as good as using a traditional paper ticket?

What I am increasingly finding is that many people think e-tickets are bad because the rail industry has acted in a way that causes people to distrust e-tickets. For the avoidance of doubt I 100% blame the relevant train companies and bodies for this! I am certainly not blaming people nor insulting people for being mislead!

However I'm happy to admit that I haven't had any bad experiences with an e-ticket, primarily because I have been fastidious in their use, only using them when I knew they were likely to be accepted without problem. Informed by many posts on this forum. To date I've only used them for Wilmslow-London Virgin/Avanti journeys. However I've commented recently in this thread that I'm about to take the plunge and use them with Northern/TPE. A year ago I'd have had more reservations and expected to run into problems, but I think next month I'll probably be OK. So things are moving on and improving. I certainly observe (from the bar above the ticket line at Manchester Piccadilly) how many people now use and presumable expect to use tickets on mobile devices.

I advise against buying them from TPE/Northern as you will end up with an m-ticket There are retailers who will offer e-tickets (where available) for travel with TPE/Northern though.

 

[jfollows]

I advise against buying them from TPE/Northern as you will end up with an m-ticket There are retailers who will offer e-tickets (where available) for travel with TPE/Northern though.

Agreed. Post #320; I have an e-ticket issued by Trainline from a charity for whom I do unpaid work. If I'm travelling from Wilmslow to Manchester (or Heaton Chapel, or wherever) I always buy a paper ticket on the day from the station, but I'm lucky that Wilmslow station is well staffed at the times I need to travel, and the staff are competent.

 

[jfollows]

What I am increasingly finding is that many people think e-tickets are bad because the rail industry has acted in a way that causes people to distrust e-tickets. For the avoidance of doubt I 100% blame the relevant train companies and bodies for this! I am certainly not blaming people nor insulting people for being mislead!

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this point. I have avoided e-tickets because of the incompetence of their implementation by certain train companies, well informed by this forum, and look forward to a time in the near future when their use will become as easy as it should be.

 

[Haywain]

If I'm travelling from Wilmslow to Manchester (or Heaton Chapel, or wherever) I always buy a paper ticket on the day from the station, but I'm lucky that Wilmslow station is well staffed at the times I need to travel, and the staff are competent.

Whilst TPE & Northern may actually issue m-tickets, e-tickets for that journey should be obtainable from other retailers.

 

[jfollows]

OK maybe not a bad experience, but why was it not as good as using a traditional paper ticket?

In answer to this specific question, e-tickets are not as good as a paper ticket when I only decide to travel at the time I travel, I walk to the station and can interact with another human being rather than a machine. I know some of the staff at Wilmslow station by sight, if not by name, and the interaction is almost always a pleasant experience. I have needed to use the ticket machines occasionally, and that is almost always an unpleasant experience. But the ticket format isn't the reason for this, e-tickets themselves aren't the problem here.

 

[yorkie]

In answer to this specific question, e-tickets are not as good as a paper ticket when I only decide to travel at the time I travel,

That's interesting as one of the advantages I find with e-tickets as that they are better than paper tickets when I decide to travel at short notice. I can buy them quickly without having to visit a ticket office or machine and can even buy them on board a train.

I walk to the station and can interact with another human being rather than a machine. I know some of the staff at Wilmslow station by sight, if not by name, and the interaction is almost always a pleasant experience. I have needed to use the ticket machines occasionally, and that is almost always an unpleasant experience. But the ticket format isn't the reason for this, e-tickets themselves aren't the problem here.

You're right that this isn't really a matter of using e-tickets but a preference regarding whether you buy from a ticket office or not. While you have pleasant experiences at Wilmslow, some members are keen to avoid awkward interactions at some other stations where the staff are less friendly and/or you may have a lengthy queue. That's a whole new topic!

 

[ashkeba]

In answer to this specific question, e-tickets are not as good as a paper ticket when I only decide to travel at the time I travel, I walk to the station and can interact with another human being rather than a machine. I know some of the staff at Wilmslow station by sight, if not by name, and the interaction is almost always a pleasant experience. I have needed to use the ticket machines occasionally, and that is almost always an unpleasant experience. But the ticket format isn't the reason for this, e-tickets themselves aren't the problem here.

Many of us use unstaffed or mostly unstaffed stations and live far enough away that we can buy the train e ticket while on the bus to the station (having paid contactless on the bus) or walking to it.

 

[ashkeba]

I have to faff about with my phone because the QR scanners don't like how dark my phone's brightness is.

Bring the ticket up slightly before you get to a barrier, disable auto brightness, put brightness up, sleep the screen, then just wake it at the barrier. Not sure why faff is needed.

 

[td97]

I advise against buying them from TPE/Northern as you will end up with an m-ticket There are retailers who will offer e-tickets (where available) for travel with TPE/Northern though.

Regarding TPE, did you miss #306? It appears to me that they now issue fully compliant e-tickets when purchased from their website?

TPE are now issuing proper e-tickets;

• either in-app (as previously),
• PDF on confirmation email

View attachment 74644

• PDF to download on booking confirmation screen.

View attachment 74643

 

[krus_aragon]

I believe many of the people who chose the ' I prefer orange paper tickets' response have actually chosen that option mistakenly and have actually not used e-tickets, which was the first option of the poll. Some of those have got confused between m-tickets and e-tickets.

Or some may have intentionally selected both, implying they've never used e-tickets because they prefer orange paper tickets?

 

[yorksrob]

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I have used tickets that one must print out at home, which I assume is an e-ticket.

That said, even if I had never used any type of electronic ticket, I would still prefer CC size tickets because you either have to print electronic tickets out somewhere - and I don't have a printer and wouldn't be able to justify the cost of one or its consumables, or you have to rely on an electronic device functioning correctly all the time you're travelling - which I don't.

So even if I had never used any type of electronic ticket, I would still be correct in selecting that I prefer CC size tickets.

 

[yorkie]

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I have used tickets that one must print out at home, which I assume is an e-ticket.

That's not the case; the old P@H format is outdated technology which some train companies used as far back as 2008.

An actual e-ticket can be stored on multiple devices; you may choose to print it but you don't have to.

If someone only has one device and no access to a printer, I can see why they may be reluctant. But that's arguably something the rail industry could easily address by converting or replacing existing CCST TVMs at stations with machines that can print e-tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If someone only has one device and no access to a printer, I can see why they may be reluctant. But that's arguably something the rail industry could easily address by converting or replacing existing CCST TVMs at stations with machines that can print e-tickets.

I think that will happen in due course (just as the Dutch have done with single use Chipkaarten) - the machines will look the same, but what they'll print on the credit card sized cardboard is barcoded e-tickets.

Replacing ToD with a "reprint my e-ticket" feature (possibly at a nominal fee) is then not a massive step.

 

[Kilopylae]

I sometimes worry that I will run out of charge using an e-ticket, particularly in the case of disruption. On delayed T.f.W. and S.W.R. services I've had my phone run out of battery and then been asked for my ticket - had I been using an e-ticket and not a paper ticket, I'd have been screwed! I'd feel a lot more comfortable if passengers had specific rights in situations where trains without plug sockets are delayed; the obligation to keep one's phone or laptop charged so as to present an e-ticket should only cover the advertised journey time. As things stand, I am not aware of any such right.

Consider a journey using multiple operators where the delay using the first operator means one's phone or laptop runs out of charge earlier in the journey than anticipated, and then a guard on an on-time train run by the second operator asks to see an e-ticket. In that situation, the passenger at the moment would have no choice but to throw themselves on the mercy of the guard in question and hope their story is believed!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I sometimes worry that I will run out of charge using an e-ticket, particularly in the case of disruption. On delayed T.f.W. and S.W.R. services I've had my phone run out of battery and then been asked for my ticket - had I been using an e-ticket and not a paper ticket, I'd have been screwed! I'd feel a lot more comfortable if passengers had specific rights in situations where trains without plug sockets are delayed; the obligation to keep one's phone or laptop charged so as to present an e-ticket should only cover the advertised journey time. As things stand, I am not aware of any such right.

If you've got a bag of any kind with you, why not just carry a battery pack which removes this worry?

 

[35B]

I can see outboundary Day Travelcards going away. They are the one awkward thing in the whole scheme of things[1], and their purpose is reduced now people can use Oyster or contactless - the main point was to save people stopping to buy another ticket.

[1] Season tickets can be dealt with with smartcards and cross London transfers by fitting barcode readers at only about 20 stations.

In this industry, I can believe that might be the decision. But as someone who has found purchasing an Outboundary Travelcard extremely useful for day trips to London, avoiding the grief associated with Oyster for farepaying children on very occasional visitors, the idea of removing that offer and the convenience it represents is to me a sign of the railways moving against the customer.

 

[35B]

If you've got a bag of any kind with you, why not just carry a battery pack which removes this worry?

I might. But why should I have to bear the cost and weight penalty of this to save the railway the cost of printing tickets?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I might. But why should I have to bear the cost and weight penalty of this to save the railway the cost of printing tickets?

Because there are more reasons not to want your phone battery to run out than railway ticketing. I don't carry one because of e-tickets, I carry one because I want to use my phone for a whole plethora of things.

 

[6Gman]

Because there are more reasons not to want your phone battery to run out than railway ticketing. I don't carry one because of e-tickets, I carry one because I want to use my phone for a whole plethora of things.

And other people don't.

So leave them alone.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And other people don't.

So leave them alone.

Then perhaps a self-printed version of an e-ticket would suit you better, or an e-ticket produced from a TVM once that becomes possible.

Therein lies the media-agnostic benefit of e-ticketing.

 

[6Gman]

Then perhaps a self-printed version of an e-ticket would suit you better, or an e-ticket produced from a TVM once that becomes possible.

Therein lies the media-agnostic benefit of e-ticketing.

No, what suits me better is going into a booking office, telling them what I need and walking out with a physical ticket which I can place in my wallet.

Particularly since I often don't know what ticket I want until I reach the station.

 

[kc_]

Generated by TallPDF Evaluation? You'd think they'd pay their licence fees before rolling it out!

I bought an advanced single back in November, and had the same watermark on the 'print at home' ticket. Did bring it up with the WhatsApp team that they ought to get that sorted. I can imagine a conductor/revenue looking at that and thinking it's a fraudulent ticket. Mind you, they're probably used to it after 5 months.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, what suits me better is going into a booking office, telling them what I need and walking out with a physical ticket which I can place in my wallet.

Which, in due course, will probably be a barcoded e-ticket.

 

[krus_aragon]

Which, in due course, will probably be a barcoded e-ticket.

If it inclues a human-readable description alongside, that'd suit me just fine.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it inclues a human-readable description alongside, that'd suit me just fine.

All e-tickets, whatever the format, show a human-readable description alongside.

 

[kc_]

I'd feel a lot more comfortable if passengers had specific rights in situations where trains without plug sockets are delayed; the obligation to keep one's phone or laptop charged so as to present an e-ticket should only cover the advertised journey time. As things stand, I am not aware of any such right.

You raise an interesting point here. What if there was some kind of system, where in the case that your phone runs out of battery, you could login to your account with email address and pin number (not password) on the guard's phone, which would bring up your ticket. Maybe require ID with your name on it? Alternatively, you could write down the ticket reference number before your battery runs out and use that to retrieve the ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You raise an interesting point here. What if there was some kind of system, where in the case that your phone runs out of battery, you could login to your account with email address and pin number (not password) on the guard's phone, which would bring up your ticket. Maybe require ID with your name on it? Alternatively, you could write down the ticket reference number before your battery runs out and use that to retrieve the ticket.

I would certainly favour a means of handling that, but I'm more inclined to suggest it should be an ability to log into a TVM and for a small fee reprint there.

To me, putting names on tickets is probably the best way to handle this. The option could be given not to have a name on the ticket, then you wouldn't be able to do reprints against ID.

 

[kc_]

I would certainly favour a means of handling that, but I'm more inclined to suggest it should be an ability to log into a TVM and for a small fee reprint there.

There are certainly issues with slowing down the ticket inspection process, and trusting logging into the guard's phone. Imagine if there was a TVM/Kiosk onboard the train! That said, we've come back full circle, as the train could have had charging facilities instead.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are certainly issues with slowing down the ticket inspection process, and trusting logging into the guard's phone. Imagine if there was a TVM/Kiosk onboard the train!

You'd use the one on the station as a precaution if your phone looked low.