Right but since nobody knows which weeks that will be or how long that will you can't plan anything around it, which is not much use to anyone. So basically you can't plan any trip at all involving it.
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Rail strikes discussion
- Thread starter Cowley
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Right but since nobody knows which weeks that will be or how long that will you can't plan anything around it, which is not much use to anyone. So basically you can't plan any trip at all involving it.
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2021_Signaller
Member
I sympathise, but strike action is a last resort i.e. enough people have serious concerns about the proposals from government for the industry.
I don't have a difficult signalling job currently, but I can't fathom how I would deal with the consequences of modernisation if I worked at a busy box for a 12 hour shift with no S&T or P-Way until the service ended. If you had point or signal failures you would be constantly giving safety critical information to drivers and managing level crossings and the workload would be intolerable. Mistakes would happen. Serious accidents could happen. Why should we even contemplate this as progress?
I want to have confidence that as soon as problems occur, that someone is on hand to start fixing them so that I only have to manage them for as short a period as possible. I cannot do this for 3 hours straight nevermind 12. This is crazy. The stress would be incredible and just not worth it.
diffident
Member
It is without doubt that I have sympathy with those who, like yourself, work in the rail industry. I'm extremely concerned however, that if there is a protracted summer of disruption, I won't be the only one to not return afterwards. Many have said to me, once you've got a car, you'll seldom use public transport again.
I do honestly feel for rail staff, my overriding concern is if people like me who have a love for the railways and spend a significant amount of income using them - and have stood by the network through all sorts of stuff, are actively looking at alternatives, I can only fear for what the future holds. I hope I'm being over the top, but if passenger numbers don't recover, the cutting axe could well be swung.
2021_Signaller
Member
I think you make a reasonable point, but this is a question of priorities and the priority should be safety rather than the long-term future of the service which though important isn't something that is within my control. I can also tell you from signallers, much more seasoned than I on my route, that this will be the first strike they have joined since 1994, so hardly something that happens routinely. The experienced staff, that I look to for guidance, are very concerned about what is coming down the track.
Not if they make them solely applicable to rail unions...
I am not advocating anything, just pointing out that the unions should be careful how much they push.
diffident
Member
For once, I think two differing views on this forum might just have found a bit of common ground!
What's more relevant are the dates of the rmt industrial action & who is involved.
21st / 23rd / 25th with 50 000 staff and 13 Tocs involved, this is a very coordinated action.
So in reality the railways are shut down on them days and non strike days will struggle to run decent services.
This shows the damage the dft & govt are willing to inflict on the railways, this is a premeditated & planned course of events.
How can people not realise the cuts in network rail staff are very dangerous indeed, do we want more accidents & incidents on our railway.... safety in the most important thing of the railways but these kinds of cuts frighten me & many others in the industry.
This govt is creating a toxic country turning everyone against each other, people talk about driverless train on here. What's that to do with this dispute ? Why not educate yourself & look beyond the smoke & mirrors the vile right wing press pump out full of inaccuracies.
The railways are modernising look at the roll out of ertms, investment in new trains. Tocs working towards a full 7 day service, huge recruitment drives etc etc which will all go in reverse if shapps has his way. The guy is clueless & this industrial action can stop if they work with the unions not against them.
21st / 23rd / 25th with 50 000 staff and 13 Tocs involved, this is a very coordinated action.
So in reality the railways are shut down on them days and non strike days will struggle to run decent services.
This shows the damage the dft & govt are willing to inflict on the railways, this is a premeditated & planned course of events.
How can people not realise the cuts in network rail staff are very dangerous indeed, do we want more accidents & incidents on our railway.... safety in the most important thing of the railways but these kinds of cuts frighten me & many others in the industry.
This govt is creating a toxic country turning everyone against each other, people talk about driverless train on here. What's that to do with this dispute ? Why not educate yourself & look beyond the smoke & mirrors the vile right wing press pump out full of inaccuracies.
The railways are modernising look at the roll out of ertms, investment in new trains. Tocs working towards a full 7 day service, huge recruitment drives etc etc which will all go in reverse if shapps has his way. The guy is clueless & this industrial action can stop if they work with the unions not against them.
These comments from experienced staff should make people sit up & realise what's happening.
We all think strikes are the last resort & I am genuinely scared by these proposed cuts in network rail.
We have a very safe railways & this will change if these cuts happen.
I'm neither for the strike nor actually against it, the claims and concerns have some merit but the irony is; the dispute will be settled, no matter how long it takes, even if it drags on for months, some form of settlement will emerge. Even in BR days all the pay disputes were ultimately settled.
The position now seems to be that the union thinks paralysing the country for a week will concentrate the minds of Government and employers.
The Government thinks that when loss of earnings begins to bite, the union will retreat somewhat from their current position.
For both to be holed up in the trenches for the long term is totally wrong and ridiculous.
The sad thing is, the greatest losers will be us, the travelling public because the DfT are already engaging in frequency reductions and closures by stealth with service suspensions.
Encouraging people to make greater use of public transport is nothing more than a pathetic joke!
The position now seems to be that the union thinks paralysing the country for a week will concentrate the minds of Government and employers.
The Government thinks that when loss of earnings begins to bite, the union will retreat somewhat from their current position.
For both to be holed up in the trenches for the long term is totally wrong and ridiculous.
The sad thing is, the greatest losers will be us, the travelling public because the DfT are already engaging in frequency reductions and closures by stealth with service suspensions.
Encouraging people to make greater use of public transport is nothing more than a pathetic joke!
brick60000
Member
- Joined
- 18 Apr 2013
- Messages
- 451
Very refreshing to read a post appreciating the work that is & will be going into getting these plans put together!!
Makes a change to comments along the lines of ‘can’t be bothered’ & ‘gives up easily!’
That said, ultimately, the work required to get it to work isn’t really for those affected to care about - so it’s even more refreshing to see comments like this.
Why would they make them solely applicable to railway unions?
If this Tory government could get away with it, every last employee in the country would be on zero hour contracts with no annual leave entitlement, no sick pay entitlement, no pensions and no employment rights whatsoever. They’d be picked up and spat out on the whim of employer’s everywhere.
The amount of posters here that are are advocating the sacking of workers for engaging their right to industrial action is absolutely shameful. Those are the people who should be careful what they wish for because when the dust settles it won’t be train drivers, signallers or any other safety critical railway staff that are replaced by agency workers. It will be the people who can least afford to lose their jobs and won’t necessarily all be railway workers.
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Sadly this appears to me to be the case.
People keep saying this but this is a Tory government with an 80 seat majority. They can do this right now if they wanted, but they don't. Loads of us have what appear to be better conditions than unionised industries without union representation. I've never worked in a unionised job and my pay and conditions have only ever got better over the years. If a company starts doing something I don't like or doesn't pay enough, I leave and get a different job, simple as that.
Peterthegreat
Established Member
Eurostar staff are not involved in this dispute. However Network Rail operate HS1 and their signallers are in dispute. It would appear HS1 will be open for around 10 hours on strike days. If you look at doing a Eurostar booking on a strike day you will see only the trains they hope to be able to run.
Because that would make such laws easier to pass.
diffident
Member
Precisely, *if* the Government wanted to go down that road, they would pass an act making railway workers essentially equivalent to Police Officers, who can only strike on very very specific conditions. Through parliament, it is a scarily simple move for them to make.
Egg Centric
Established Member
I don't know enough to really understand the rights and wrongs of specific grievances.
All I know is that if the rail staff go for a proper balls to the wall strike they will (as a collective) lose long term. The public are not with them. The government are not with them. The opposition are not with them. I do not begrudge their pay but it is generally higher than similarly skilled jobs. There is huge untapped supply of replacement staff which could be taken up. There are archaic practices on the railway and if starting from scratch other ways of working could be introduced (even if less safe - there is a lot of safety to "play with" - we don't have to be as safe as we currently are).
It's so sad to see turkeys voting for Christmas like this. Especially when they appear to be led by Bernard Mathews.
All I know is that if the rail staff go for a proper balls to the wall strike they will (as a collective) lose long term. The public are not with them. The government are not with them. The opposition are not with them. I do not begrudge their pay but it is generally higher than similarly skilled jobs. There is huge untapped supply of replacement staff which could be taken up. There are archaic practices on the railway and if starting from scratch other ways of working could be introduced (even if less safe - there is a lot of safety to "play with" - we don't have to be as safe as we currently are).
It's so sad to see turkeys voting for Christmas like this. Especially when they appear to be led by Bernard Mathews.
diffident
Member
I know this dispute isn't about train drivers, but railway staff in general, and pay isn't the only issue on the docket. I just wanted to point out however for context as @Egg Centric says, pay on the railways is generally higher than other industries.
Consider. A Ryanair pilot can expect a salary on average of £39,730. A train driver can expect a salary on average of £48,500. (Data: Reed/Glassdoor)
I don't want to engage in an argument that train drivers have more passengers than airline pilots etc etc, but that there is a discrepancy and a half.
Thanks for this informative info. I’m traveling on the 23/06/22 and suspected this would be the case but had my mind put at rest by Eurostar press releases stating they would not be affected.
I have just logged on to my account and everything is still saying the 21:33 Lille to London is scheduled to run but like you say the last train whizzes through the tunnel around 17:15 Europe time according to the website.
I’m in Portugal next week and their on strike too. Couldn’t make it up
Peterthegreat
Established Member
Ryanair themselves say their pilots earn around £150k per year.
diffident
Member
They really don't. Senior captains will get to that sort of figure. But not line pilots.
You could have stopped after the first sentence.
diffident
Member
Why? Do you not accept others have opinions that differ to yours?
No more marked up to longer jobs from spare either ? I mean that can add up to another days pay plus every 4 weeks .
...or stay and try and make things better for the future?
That is a starting salary for a First Officer and is expected to rise significantly with time and progression. A similarly structured EasyJet, Second and First officer can expect 40-60k a senior first Officer 75k and a Captain 115+k. Then there is the possibilities of moving to long haul carriers with larger salaries. That said, in that industry you have to pay for your own training to become a pilot.
Where are these then?
To be fair......If you're going to use the average train driver salary you should also use an average pilot salary for a comparison. Not the lowest basic salary of a Ryanair pilot.
I don't know what an average pilot earns per year but it will clearly be much more than £39k. And fair enough
Could you explain how compromising safety is s good idea please
I know plenty of people in the industry considering just that . If you start to see above average levels of staff leaving then the ability to uplift from the current emergency timetables is put at risk .
There really isn’t. Not for the roles with the most bargaining power such as drivers and signallers (and to some extent guards).
At my TOC we use don’t use agency staff but we do use sub-contractors for cleaning and dispatching at some locations and the turnover is extremely high. It seems that nobody actively wants to be cleaning human waste off a toilet cubicle wall on a Saturday night or dispatching a train at 2am on a Tuesday for £9.90 an hour.
I prefer “Electorate voting for Boris” as a more accurate way of describing the current mess
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