Railcard discounts to be reduced to 33.4%

[Adam Williams]

I believe it is actually for tickets purchased from that date, a slight difference.

I'm not sure I agree.

 

[OscarH]

I believe it is actually for tickets purchased from that date, a slight difference.

It is supposed to be travel from that date, the "sell from" has passed

 

[island]

I have just gone on LNER to purchase discounted tickets for the 27th and have been offered the current price, which supports what I have said.

 

[alistairlees]

I have just gone on LNER to purchase discounted tickets for the 27th and have been offered the current price, which supports what I have said.

Which is wrong. The sell by date was a few weeks ago, the 9th August or something. Try a larger sample.

 

[Hadders]

The cost of my railcard discounted Travelcard at the weekend increases by 1% as a result of this.

Many will say not an issue, in the grand scheme of things, but on top of the sneaky price increases the train companies impose it all adds up.

For example:

3% additional increase on Travelcards
Increase due to LNER single leg pricing
Increases due to LNER trial between London and Newcastle/Edinburgh

 

[Adam Williams]

I, for one, think LNER should be applauded for doing the customer-friendly thing of interpreting the fares data completely incorrectly

Guess I know where to buy my railcard discounted tickets for future travel for the next few weeks

I have just gone on LNER to purchase discounted tickets for the 27th and have been offered the current price, which supports what I have said.

Alas, I can't actually reproduce this behaviour:

Booking Engine

www.lner.co.uk

Booking Engine

www.lner.co.uk

5p increase, as you'd expect.

 

[westv]

Just renewed my three year Senior card for the same £70 and nothing on the website suggesting it might be increasing. Rather frightening this will be the fifth 3-year one I have had...

I renewed mine in June but only for a year because I was using Tesco vouchers.
The reduction in the discount does come across as very petty.

 

[brad465]

On the plus side, the annual Railcard price of £30 is not going to change this year. With inflation, it really should be towards £40-£50 (and would still be incredible value).

I'd see these minor changes to the discount % as a net positive - a way to avoid raising the price of the Railcard price itself.

How common do workplaces offer to pay the expense of a railcard, thus don't notice the cost regardless? Mine does, provided one spends at least £125 in business travel a year (which is easy to do usually).

 

[Alex C.]

How common do workplaces offer to pay the expense of a railcard, thus don't notice the cost regardless? Mine does, provided one spends at least £125 in business travel a year (which is easy to do usually).

Good employers will, my last one offer to pay for it even without a minimum business travel spend. I've also worked for employers who've flat out refused to consider it, even when I've demonstrated that a single ticket + railcard purchase would be cheaper than the undiscounted ticket because their internal policy is that you can't benefit personally from expenses.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How common do workplaces offer to pay the expense of a railcard, thus don't notice the cost regardless? Mine does, provided one spends at least £125 in business travel a year (which is easy to do usually).

Mine bought me a Swiss Halbtax and an easyJet Plus card as it saved them a packet.

Technically no personal use or it's be taxable but realistically it's de minimis and unenforceable.

 

[trainophile]

My regular Advance that I buy a few times a month has gone up 5p for purchases made from a couple of weeks ago. I did wonder, and now realise the reason.

 

[Adam Williams]

My regular Advance that I buy a few times a month has gone up 5p for purchases made from a couple of weeks ago. I did wonder, and now realise the reason.

Quite a few customers are beginning to notice and ask questions.

At least there's a BBC News article about it now that they can be pointed at

Railcard train travel to offer less of a discount

The discount will be trimmed from 34% to 33.4% from the middle of September after system changes.

www.bbc.co.uk

The train fare discount being offered to Railcard users is being cut by operators this month.

Savings are advertised as being one-third and are currently applied at a rate of 34% for Railcards held by people including those aged 16-30 and over 60.

The discount will be trimmed to 33.4% from the middle of September as the rail operators looks to boost income from fares.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Good employers will, my last one offer to pay for it even without a minimum business travel spend. I've also worked for employers who've flat out refused to consider it, even when I've demonstrated that a single ticket + railcard purchase would be cheaper than the undiscounted ticket because their internal policy is that you can't benefit personally from expenses.

Making the Railcard a subscription product/service has been considered (although not specifically in the context of business travel). I suppose it makes no difference who pays.

However, the concept of Railcard isn't supposed to be reducing the cost of business travel or regular commuting - so I suspect there will be little support for anything that makes this easier.

 

[miklcct]

I'm more worried that the Gov't will find some way to scrap them! Not due to renew until next Feb, if I hear any rumours I'll buy one early.

Isn't the Senior Railcard safeguarded during privatisation? (along with Young Persons Railcard and Disabled Railcard)

 

[miklcct]

Making the Railcard a subscription product/service has been considered (although not specifically in the context of business travel). I suppose it makes no difference who pays.

However, the concept of Railcard isn't supposed to be reducing the cost of business travel or regular commuting - so I suspect there will be little support for anything that makes this easier.

Making it a subscription will make it harder for tourists to buy one.

 

[gingerheid]

This seems like an utterly bizarre change. The negative message that it sends out is out of step with the benefit in terms of revenue generated.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

This seems like an utterly bizarre change. The negative message that it sends out is out of step with the benefit in terms of revenue generated.

So you'd prefer the cost of obtaining the Railcard to increase instead? Should be closer to £50 if it had kept pace with inflation alone, let alone rail specific inflationary costs!

It hasn't increased in such a long time, and ultimately, you're still getting the discount that you were entitled to all along. Just see the slightly more generous discount as a bonus that's been removed.

 

[bakerstreet]

So you'd prefer the cost of obtaining the Railcard to increase instead? Should be closer to £50 if it had kept pace with inflation alone, let alone rail specific inflationary costs!

It hasn't increased in such a long time, and ultimately, you're still getting the discount that you were entitled to all along. Just see the slightly more generous discount as a bonus that's been removed.

That’s great if true.
Unfortunately, nowhere in the rail industry comms can I see it say that this discount calculation change is linked to the cost of railcards not rising.

Are you saying you know this is the case? That because the discount is being reduced that the railcard prices are protected?
If so this is a positive spin which I’m surprised isn’t being pushed.

History tells us that this change might not be to protect railcard prices, but to secure more income.

When minimum fares were brought in, and when the minimum fare has been raised since, or when many railcard discounts were reduced from 50% to 34% did the cost of railcards freeze?

If so for how long were they frozen?
And was there a demonstrable link?

 

[CyrusWuff]

It is supposed to be travel from that date, the "sell from" has passed

Unlike fares changes, there is no "sell from" date for discount changes, just a "with effect from" one.

 

[alistairlees]

Unlike fares changes, there is no "sell from" date for discount changes, just a "with effect from" one.

Because of this the fares data with the railcard discount change was released at a very specific time (I think it was Friday 16th August), as it came into effect (from a selling perspective) immediately.

 

[OscarH]

Unlike fares changes, there is no "sell from" date for discount changes, just a "with effect from" one.

Indeed, I posted that after looking at a brief summary email before I'd poked the fares data properly (can never remember what has what dates off the top of my head!). As @alistairlees says, they did sell from artificially.

 

[hawk1911]

Slowly but surely I feel like I'm being pushed away from the railways, after being a regular user for over 50 years.

During Covid lockdown I purchased an electric car (massive discount, as it was stuck on a forecourt) and the fuel savings are eye opening and I've only partly returned to the railways since.

As a Bradford City season ticket holder I have a round trip of exactly 200 miles for home matches. The current cost by rail is £28.95 (with split ticketing and a railcard). By car the same journey costs £3.80.

It's getting harder and harder to justify using the train for all but, perhaps, the odd journey into central London.

 

[Hadders]

lowly but surely I feel like I'm being pushed away from the railways, after being a regular user for over 50 years.

I have to agree with this.

I travelled to Sheffield for a day trip last Saturday and I would always use the train for such a trip - but fares (even with my extensive knowledge) were £80+).

I am very fortunate to have An electric company car. Stevenage to Sheffield return is just within the battery range without having to recharge en-route (in summer at least!). Cost of electricity less than £5. Had only 6% charge remaining when I got back home

 

[cmovcc]

this is classic breach of contract

if they don't provide compensation I'll instruct my card provider to chargeback the original purchase

that will cost RDG the £30 plus at least £50 in fees

if they had half a brain they'd update the terms, then in a year (or three...!) they'd drop the discount

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

this is classic breach of contract

if they don't provide compensation I'll instruct my card provider to chargeback the original purchase

that will cost RDG the £30 plus at least £50 in fees

if they had half a brain they'd update the terms, then in a year (or three...!) they'd drop the discount

And your banking institute will tell you where to whistle... All you'll lose is your time.

You've been getting a greater discount than advertised simply because the systems couldn't handle the decimal places to make it a third.

You're now simply getting the advertised discount.

Your mathematics are also skewed heavily.

Your Railcard (assuming 1 year, £30) is worth about £0.08 per day. You've had use of that Railcard at a discount you've been satisfied with. So even if you were entitled to anything, it would require a pro-rata calculation. Your bank isn't going to entertain this either.

A chargeback is not costing a retailer £50 either - not remotely.

 

[RJ]

This is one of those ones where the toss can be argued on principle, but there are more worthy fights to fight. The headline discount is 1/3rd off. 34% isn't even accurate given there has always been rounding.

Maybe to placate people, a proper notice period should have been put in, with the option of a pro-rata railcard refund of the railcard if unsatisfied. I bet the take up would have been pretty low.

 

[cmovcc]

And your banking institute will tell you where to whistle... All you'll lose is your time.

what, 4 seconds on the app to click it, press dispute and select "good/services received were not as described"

if it's less that £50 it's automatically approved

You've been getting a greater discount than advertised simply because the systems couldn't handle the decimal places to make it a third.

You're now simply getting the advertised discount.

no, I was getting 34% because the terms (i.e. the contract between us) said 34%, not (100/3)%

Your Railcard (assuming 1 year, £30) is worth about £0.08 per day. You've had use of that Railcard at a discount you've been satisfied with. So even if you were entitled to anything, it would require a pro-rata calculation.

offering a pro-rata refund would be perfectly acceptable to me

but if they don't I will hit the chargeback button as they've essentially stolen from me: the product is no longer as it was described at the point I purchased it

Your bank isn't going to entertain this either.

my card provider will do what I tell them to, they will claw it back from the merchant automatically

it's then up to the merchant to challenge it, and that requires a mountain of paperwork on their end

the credit card system is set up entirely to the benefit of the consumer, not the merchant

either way, worst case I lose at most the 4 seconds to click the button, best case I get the full amount back, plus cost RDG more than the original purchase in fees

A chargeback is not costing a retailer £50 either - not remotely.

it's at least that (plus penalties if they get too many)

you can't just change the terms of a contract because you want to get more money

 

[Adam Williams]

And your banking institute will tell you where to whistle

Given the frivolous chargebacks I see, I'm not entirely convinced! Some financial institutions will let people chargeback Advance tickets simply because a refund was refused, even when the customer was advised of the terms and conditions at purchase-time. The retailer doesn't necessarily win when they point this out, either...

 

[Haywain]

this is classic breach of contract

if they don't provide compensation I'll instruct my card provider to chargeback the original purchase

Clearly, at that point you will stop using the railcard as you are not satisfied with what's being offered.

 

[yorkie]

this is classic breach of contract

if they don't provide compensation I'll instruct my card provider to chargeback the original purchase

that will cost RDG the £30 plus at least £50 in fees

if they had half a brain they'd update the terms, then in a year (or three...!) they'd drop the discount

Bear in mind, it is RDG (i.e. the train companies, acting collectively, in cahoots with the DfT) who have broken the contract, not necessarily the retailer.

If you bought it from a third party retailer, please don't do this. Alternatively, if you bought it from RDG or a TOC, then I'd support the principle, and I'd certainly like to see the TOCs get their comeuppance for this, but not all banks will entertain it (as mentioned above). Let us know how you get on!