Railcard discounts to be reduced to 33.4%

[Hadders]

That is exactly why it is in place! Railcards are intended for off-peak leisure travel not making going to work in peak time cheaper!

Not always. It's also designed to allow younger people, at the start of their careers and on lower wages commuting relatively long distances into London and other cities, relief on their rail fares and to pay as they go.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not always. It's also designed to allow younger people, at the start of their careers and on lower wages commuting relatively long distances into London and other cities, relief on their rail fares and to pay as they go.

I wouldn't agree that it is, rather the minimum fare in preference to total bar is just about keeping long distance midweek leisure trips feasible.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If the discount was advertised as 34% at the time of purchase and it ended up being 33.4% it is a blatant breach of contract that general customers will definitely notice.

Except it wasn’t advertised as 34%, it was advertised as 1/3, and has been since at least 2001.

It's been advertised as 1/3 in many places, yes. But the examples of savings on the RDG's own Railcard website showed a 34% discount, and the NRE page clearly showed a 34% discount being offered.

The railcard website has said 1/3 for 23 years. Whilst the ticket T&Cs stated this was calculated as a 34% discount, and some TOCs offered 50%, the advertised discount by National Railcard is and has long been 1/3.

It’s sneaky but entirely within what is promised when the railcard is sold.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The railcard website has said 1/3 for 23 years. Whilst the ticket T&Cs started this was a 34% discount, and some TOCs offered 50%, the advertised discount is and always has been 1/3.

As the T&Cs are what is being sold for anything like this, I think one would quite easily say it was part of the decision to purchase.

It is a bit de-minimis, though, other than on the most expensive fares. It's surprising they did put 34% in the T&Cs really, "at least one third" would have done the job fine and allowed them to implement as they saw fit.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I wouldn't agree that it is, rather the minimum fare in preference to total bar is just about keeping long distance midweek leisure trips feasible.

I’d agree with that, and the minimum fare is far preferable to the absolute block you get with the Two Together Railcard.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With regard to the NSE, didn't it originally only discount "Cheap Day Singles and Returns" i.e. what we'd now call (Super) Off Peak? So it's gained wider scope over the years?

Certainly it being useful to buy a single in and a discounted single back is very much a new thing as I mention above, and this is only useful on a widespread basis with the coming of single-fare pricing.

 

[Tetchytyke]

As the T&Cs are what is being sold for anything like this, I think one would quite easily say it was part of the decision to purchase.

It is a bit de-minimis, though.

It’s definitely de minimis, although 0.6% is a big enough sum- it’s in line with what some cashback sites offer as an incentive to purchase.

But I don’t think it is part of the decision to purchase. Some TOCs offered a 50% discount for using some railcards. If you get a bigger discount than 1/3 then it is a bonus not an entitlement.

 

[Watershed]

Except it wasn’t advertised as 34%, it was advertised as 1/3, and has been since at least 2001.

It was advertised as 1/3 in some places, and 34% in others. Consumers are of course entitled to rely on the more favourable term - 34%.

The railcard website has said 1/3 for 23 years.

Yet the examples it provided showed a 34% discount!

Whilst the ticket T&Cs stated this was calculated as a 34% discount

The ticket T&Cs are clearly a core part of the terms - for example they dictate the ticket types you can get a discount on (e.g. that you can't get a discount on First Class walkups on a 16-25 Railcard). By any reading, they must be incorporated as part of the contract.

some TOCs offered 50%

That's a separate matter. Nobody is obliging them to offer 50% and they can choose to discontinue this enhanced discount rate at their discretion, just as they can offer sale fares (with or without Railcard discount) as they see fit.

the advertised discount by National Railcard is and has long been 1/3.

There have been many instances where it's been advertised as 34%.

It’s sneaky but entirely within what is promised when the railcard is sold.

It's not.

 

[gray1404]

Is there any serious suggestion that the purchase price of Railcards is going to increase?

My disabled persons Railcard runs out in a month so I am deciding if I should renew it for 1 or 3 years. I have been doing 1 year renewals with Tesco clubcard points but if the Railcard price is seriously going to increase I might opt for a 3 year renewal at the current price.

However if it's not going to increase I'll stick to one year renewals.

 

[Llandudno]

Not a good look for the new Labour Government if one of the first things they oversee is a back door way of sneakily putting train fares up and eroding the discount and/or validity and cost of Railcards…

 

[JonathanH]

Not a good look for the new Labour Government if one of the first things they oversee is a back door way of sneakily putting train fares up and eroding the discount and/or validity and cost of Railcards…

Better to do it now before the railway is 'nationalised'.

 

[gray1404]

Not a good look for the new Labour Government if one of the first things they oversee is a back door way of sneakily putting train fares up and eroding the discount and/or validity and cost of Railcards…

Does anyone know when the change from 34% to 1/3 will take effect. Not good at all for a new government.

 

[paul1609]

Though, of course, those products are available to everyone, all the time with no minimum fares. The current Railcards are restricted to specific groups. If you wanted to introduce a National Railcard then by all means make it expensive but it seems unfair to substantially increase the price (I'm not necessarily opposed to a small increase) on a product which is heavily restricted.

If the Tories had won and implemented Rishis National Service plan everyone would have been entitled to a Veterans Railcard so we would have had a national railcard

 

[Tetchytyke]

Does anyone know when the change from 34% to 1/3 will take effect. Not good at all for a new government.

The ticket T&Cs have already been updated, so one would presume immediately.

 

[yorksrob]

If the Tories had won and implemented Rishis National Service plan everyone would have been entitled to a Veterans Railcard so we would have had a national railcard

Nice idea, although I suspect I'd have been too long in the tooth to "benefit" !

 

[gray1404]

The ticket T&Cs have already been updated, so one would presume immediately.

I wonder if retailers have been instructed to change their pricing accordingly.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I wonder if retailers have been instructed to change their pricing accordingly.

Given discounts are defined as part of the fares data, there should be no need for retailer intervention in the event of a change.

 

[arb]

It seems that the change to railcard discounted prices takes effect from sometime around the middle of this month. But in some cases it's not just the percentage change on the railcard discount, the undiscounted price is being increased as well.

A weekend super-off-peak return from Cambridge to London with a travelcard and railcard discount will increase from £20.35 on Saturday 14th September to £20.55 on Saturday 21st September (that's a 1.0% increase). The full price ticket is unchanged at £30.90, so the discount has changed from 34.1% to 33.5%, which seems in line with what was expected from this thread.

But the "Greater Anglia only" version of the same ticket is increasing from £14.30 to £16.25 with railcard discount (13.6% increase), or £21.70 to £24.40 for the full price ticket (12.4% increase). Those numbers mean that the percentage discount has changed from 34.1% to 33.4%, which again is in line with expectations, but was anybody expecting the base ticket price to get such a large increase at the same time?

 

[alistairlees]

The decrease in discount takes place for travel on or after 15 September.

 

[Hadders]

But the "Greater Anglia only" version of the same ticket is increasing from £14.30 to £16.25 with railcard discount (13.6% increase), or £21.70 to £24.40 for the full price ticket (12.4% increase). Those numbers mean that the percentage discount has changed from 34.1% to 33.4%, which again is in line with expectations, but was anybody expecting the base ticket price to get such a large increase at the same time?

The main fares increase usually takes place in January each year (although the last few years implementation has been delayed until March).

There are also fares revisions in May and September, so it looks as though Greater Anglia are increasing some of their fares.

 

[yorkie]

It seems that the change to railcard discounted prices takes effect from sometime around the middle of this month. But in some cases it's not just the percentage change on the railcard discount, the undiscounted price is being increased as well.

A weekend super-off-peak return from Cambridge to London with a travelcard and railcard discount will increase from £20.35 on Saturday 14th September to £20.55 on Saturday 21st September (that's a 1.0% increase). The full price ticket is unchanged at £30.90, so the discount has changed from 34.1% to 33.5%, which seems in line with what was expected from this thread.

But the "Greater Anglia only" version of the same ticket is increasing from £14.30 to £16.25 with railcard discount (13.6% increase), or £21.70 to £24.40 for the full price ticket (12.4% increase). Those numbers mean that the percentage discount has changed from 34.1% to 33.4%, which again is in line with expectations, but was anybody expecting the base ticket price to get such a large increase at the same time?

This is a completely separate matter to the Railcard discount changing; on a fares revision date, various changes can occur.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

On the plus side, the annual Railcard price of £30 is not going to change this year. With inflation, it really should be towards £40-£50 (and would still be incredible value).

I'd see these minor changes to the discount % as a net positive - a way to avoid raising the price of the Railcard price itself.

 

[trainophile]

On the plus side, the annual Railcard price of £30 is not going to change this year. With inflation, it really should be towards £40-£50 (and would still be incredible value).

I'd see these minor changes to the discount % as a net positive - a way to avoid raising the price of the Railcard price itself.

Does that apply to the 3-year one as well?

 

[davews]

Just renewed my three year Senior card for the same £70 and nothing on the website suggesting it might be increasing. Rather frightening this will be the fifth 3-year one I have had...

 

[trainophile]

Just renewed my three year Senior card for the same £70 and nothing on the website suggesting it might be increasing. Rather frightening this will be the fifth 3-year one I have had...

I'm more worried that the Gov't will find some way to scrap them! Not due to renew until next Feb, if I hear any rumours I'll buy one early.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Does that apply to the 3-year one as well?

No plans to increase the 3 year one either, as far as I'm aware.

Also no plans to withdraw any Railcard (although there may be some consolidation). Perhaps more accurate to say that the people eligible for a Railcard will still be able to get one that is broadly similar to the one they can get now.

There have been some suggestions about reforming some Railcard terms and conditions - and to the process as to how disconnected tickets are retailed.

The new RDG API to validate Railcards was optional and retailers have not been particularly interested in it.

 

[ScotsRail]

STV have put something up from the PA about it, so it may pop up elsewhere over the next day or so.

Train operators are preparing to trim railcard discounts, with a pro-rail group describing the move as “a step in the wrong direction”.

The PA news agency understands fare reductions will be reduced from 34% to 33.4% from September 15.

Railcards which will be affected include those held by passenger groups such as people aged 16-30 or 60 and over, families travelling with children, people with a disability and military veterans.

Discounts are currently calculated as 34%, but train operators will take advantage of an easing of system limitations to apply a smaller reduction of 33.4%.

Examples of Anytime Return fare increases for railcard holders include from £194.15 to £195.90 from Cardiff to London, and from £72.60 to £73.25 from Birmingham to Manchester.

A section on railcard discounts on the National Rail Enquiries website was updated in June to remove references to 34%.

Train firms to cut railcard discounts without telling passengers

The PA news agency understands fare reductions will be reduced from 34% to 33.4% from September 15.

news.stv.tv

 

[Haywain]

and to the process as to how disconnected tickets are retailed.

What do you mean by disconnected tickets?

 

[Adam Williams]

The new RDG API to validate Railcards was optional and retailers have not been particularly interested in it.

I would not consider this to be an accurate characterisation of what actually happened. One (larger) retailer did not appear to show much interest from where I was sitting.

Another smaller retailer expressed interest, put time in the diary to speak to RDG about potential trials and offered up engineering time to integrate with the API.

Unfortunately a lot of people in govt and other central organisations seem to equate "retailers" with one particular large, teal-coloured company.

 

[island]

The decrease in discount takes place for travel on or after 15 September.

I believe it is actually for tickets purchased from that date, a slight difference.