Railway General Knowledge.

[Welshman]

Porthmadog?

 

[krus_aragon]

Caernarfon?

Porthmadog?

Neither of these, I'm afraid.

The criteria that were considered essential for an Irish mail port were a harbour with shelter from prevailing south-westery winds, feasability to get there by railway (with 1830s technology), and as close to Dublin as was practical. The four options gave different weightings to these criteria, of course...

 

[Marton]

A guess from looking at google earth

Port Trefor.

 

[DerekC]

Conwy, perhaps?

 

[krus_aragon]

A guess from looking at google earth

Port Trefor.

No, sorry.

Conwy, perhaps?

You're getting close to one of them...

 

[Trackman]

Llandudno?

 

[DerekC]

You're getting close to one of them...

If not Conwy then maybe Bangor?

 

[Welshman]

If Conwy is close, how about Deganwy?

 

[krus_aragon]

If not Conwy then maybe Bangor?

Further...

If Conwy is close, how about Deganwy?

Closer...

Llandudno?

Bingo!

Llandudno, or St George's Bay, was put forward as a port that was nearer to Dublin than Liverpool, but didn't involve devising railway bridges over the Conwy and the Menai Straits (a feat that Telford had done just decades earlier for horse and cart). Detractors pointed out that if boats from Dublin were expected to sail past Holyhead, why should they stop at the Orme rather than carry on to Liverpool?

(Having failed to get Parliamentary support for transforming the Llandudno area into an industrial hub, the local landowners decided to develop it as a resort instead.)

So along with Holyhead and Porth Dinlleyn, we have three of the four. (Porth Dinlleyn was the port of choice for Charles Vignoles, who surveyed a route through mid-Wales and along Cardigan Bay. He was supported by landowner William Maddocks, of Porthmadog fame.)

The remaining port was Brunel's suggestion for a route to Dublin, but based off his Great Western Railway route. When he lost out to Holyhead, Brunel turned his attention to Neyland and the transatlantic market instead. But where did he have in mind beforehand?

 

[Marton]

Fishguard?

 

[krus_aragon]

Fishguard?

No, that'd make a rather long sea crossing toward Dublin. Look further north...

 

[DerekC]

Getting a bit short of harbours … Barmouth?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Pwllheli?

 

[krus_aragon]

Neither Barmouth nor Pwllheli.

The remaining port is of a (vaguely) similar scale to Porth Dinlleyn.

 

[Snow1964]

Nefyn ?

 

[krus_aragon]

Nefyn ?

Nope, sorry.

Brunel was considering this port in 1836, as the terminus of a new railway entering Wales from the Gloucester direction. The port was on Cardigan Bay.

 

[Marton]

Aberdyfi

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Aberystwyth?

 

[krus_aragon]

Aberdyfi

Aberystwyth?

Neither is correct, but Aberystwyth is the nearer of the two.

 

[DerekC]

Aberaeron, perhaps? But it's quite a long way from Dublin. Or maybe New Quay - better shelter from the south west.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Borth?

 

[DerekC]

Borth?

I thought about that - maybe it did have a harbour then, but it's nearer Aberdyfi than Aberystwyth! I am a bit mystified!!

 

[krus_aragon]

Aberaeron, perhaps? But it's quite a long way from Dublin. Or maybe New Quay - better shelter from the south west.

Ding Ding! New Quay was the port considered by Brunel in 1836, though by April 1840 he'd changed to supporting Porth Dinlleyn via Didcot, Worcester, and then Vignoles' route through Newtown, Dolgellau and Barmouth.

I'm afraid I don't have much detail to share on the Gloucester-New Quay plan, only that it's mentioned by Peter E Baughan in both his Regional History of North & Mid Wales Railways, and his history of the Chester & Holyhead Railway.

@DerekC , that makes three out of four for you, so the floor is yours.

 

[DerekC]

It's interesting that the North Wales Narrow Gauge Railways proposal to Parliament in 1872 included a branch to Porth Dinllaen from Pwllheli, so there were obviously still aspirations to expand it, more than thirty years after Brunel's interest. Anyhow, a question based a lot further east....

What part did the Tyneside firm of Armstrong Whitworth play in the early history of the Trans-Siberian Railway?

 

[Marton]

Builders Of the ship on lake Baikall which was needed before the Mongolian
Extension was built.

 

[DerekC]

Builders Of the ship on lake Baikall which was needed before the Mongolian
Extension was built.

That's right - in fact there were two icebreaking ferries - the SS Baikal (which carried trains) and the SS Angura - both built on Tyneside in CKD form for assembly on site. They operated from 1899 to 1905, when the Circum-Baikal Railway was opened. (The Trans-Mongolian was built later, after WWII)

Your steppe.

 

[Marton]

Thank you

Which line was to be constructed by Death and Co?
The line was never nationalised and closed to passengers, but not freight in late 1948.

 

[Calthrop]

The Easingwold Railway?

 

[Marton]

Correct.

your floor

 

[Calthrop]

Thanks.

Which type of articulated steam locomotive looked superficially like a Garratt; but wasn't? -- and, what was the essential structural difference?