Freightmaster
Established Member
- Joined
- 7 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 3,496
Kindly leave the stageTomFoolery?
MARK
Yes, it's not quite grammatically right, whichever way you read it. The text for reversals more correctly says "service reverses here".Something that bugs me on RTT
View attachment 112488
Shouldn't it be "Service passes another here" rather than "Service passed another here"?
Has anyone else noticed a bug today with a lot of Northern EMU cars appearing in nonsensical orders (i.e. with two driving cabs at one end and none at the other)?
View attachment 113721
I wonder what could be causing this? It's rather strange!
Quite normal, not every schedule that gets entered into the system has every intermediate station listed, hence some appearing to be missing when you search a certain station. What I do for my location is pick a nearby junction, which happens to be included in all schedules on my line. The times will be slightly out obviously, but at least all services are there.Not sure if this is a RTT specific question or just a general question about how trains are signalled through station or something but thought I'd ask here first!
I've noticed some stations don't list trains going past - despite them doing so. So for example.. at Ambergate Junction you can see all these services -
Realtime Trains | Departures from Ambergate Jn all day on 29/04/2022
Train information at Ambergate Jn all day on 29/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.www.realtimetrains.co.uk
And every train going through there has to also go through Belper.. but they don't show as passing when I look at Belper on RTT?
Realtime Trains | Departures from Belper all day on 29/04/2022
Train information at Belper all day on 29/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.www.realtimetrains.co.uk
This is down to what's known as 'mandatory timing points', which are typically either important junctions or intermediate/major stations where there's a longer stretch without any junctions. Trains are normally only timed at mandatory timing points and locations where they stop - it would be impractical to time them at every intermediate station and junction (one factor is the data limitation of 150 timing points per train).Not sure if this is a RTT specific question or just a general question about how trains are signalled through station or something but thought I'd ask here first!
I've noticed some stations don't list trains going past - despite them doing so. So for example.. at Ambergate Junction you can see all these services -
Realtime Trains | Departures from Ambergate Jn all day on 29/04/2022
Train information at Ambergate Jn all day on 29/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.www.realtimetrains.co.uk
And every train going through there has to also go through Belper.. but they don't show as passing when I look at Belper on RTT?
Realtime Trains | Departures from Belper all day on 29/04/2022
Train information at Belper all day on 29/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Quite normal, not every schedule that gets entered into the system has every intermediate station listed, hence some appearing to be missing when you search a certain station. What I do for my location is pick a nearby junction, which happens to be included in all schedules on my line. The times will be slightly out obviously, but at least all services are there.
Hopw that helps.
This is down to what's known as 'mandatory timing points', which are typically either important junctions or intermediate/major stations where there's a longer stretch without any junctions. Trains are normally only timed at mandatory timing points and locations where they stop - it would be impractical to time them at every intermediate station and junction (one factor is the data limitation of 150 timing points per train).
In this particular case, Ambergate Junction is a mandatory timing point as it is the junction for the Matlock branch, whilst Belper is not a mandatory timing point. Therefore trains which don't stop at Belper aren't timed there. Around a day or so in advance, RTT interpolates timings for all schedules at all intermediate timing points (stations, junctions etc.). In the schedule, these are marked in grey rather than black to indicate this is the source of the timing (rather than the timetable data).
So on the day, you can generally rely on RTT to see all services regardless of whether they call somewhere or whether it's a mandatory timing point. But more than a day or so in advance, you can only see trains which are timed at that location.
Or for example Thornhill LNW Junction, which is only a timing point for trains that use the Up Huddersfield/Down L&Y - therefore trains towards Dewsbury or from Horbury won't be timed there.There are also places where a timing point (and I guess it can potentially be a "mandatory" one?) exists somewhere where there are multiple tracks in parallel, but the timing point only applies to some of the tracks. So you can look up that location but you'll only see some of the trains that actually pass. The examples I know are junctions on a 4 track line, with two pairs of running tracks, and the junction diverges only from one of those pairs.
Knottingley doesn't include trains on the station avoiding line. You need to use Knottingley West Jn to pick them up.There are also places where a timing point (and I guess it can potentially be a "mandatory" one?) exists somewhere where there are multiple tracks in parallel, but the timing point only applies to some of the tracks. So you can look up that location but you'll only see some of the trains that actually pass. The examples I know are junctions on a 4 track line, with two pairs of running tracks, and the junction diverges only from one of those pairs.
Something's changed and as of today, I no longer get the cookies message after every click. Yay! So, if the developers have solved the issue, thank you. If it's something else about which I know nothing, well, the site is easier to use so still smiles all round.Has there been a recent change 'behind the scenes' in the RTT system? Last week, I could use the site without issue. This week, on two different browsers on my home system (Mac), I get the standard 'accept cookies' message after every click. It's fine on Windows. I can still use the site, but it's very frustrating!
This has been mentioned a few times now, apparently something wrong with the data.RTT is a great resource - many thanks for providing it. I don't want to seem churlish, but one little bug seemes to have crept in recently (or have I only just noticed?) - with regard to some train formations. Example below, showing the two driving coaches at positions 3 & 4:
View attachment 114520
Of course it may be that this new formation is the root cause of the Northern 769's appalling availability?!?
Yes, it’s not that unusual. The time shown will usually be the time the train enters the signalling section containing the station, which depending on the exact signal layout may be well before the station. Another possibility is the freight train doesn’t have a timing point at your station, so RTT have interpolated it from other information.Waiting at my local station to photograph a freight and on my phone it showed it had passed the station 1 min before it actually did . Is this normal .
There will be an offset, but this will always be an estimate at the end of the day and won't be 100% accurate. Particularly so for freight services.Yes, it’s not that unusual. The time shown will usually be the time the train enters the signalling section containing the station, which depending on the exact signal layout may be well before the station. Another possibility is the freight train doesn’t have a timing point at your station, so RTT have interpolated it from other information.
I remember Tom explaining the necessity to sometimes work out his own offsets for passenger trains, but am not really sure if he would have done the same for freights?There will be an offset, but this will always be an estimate at the end of the day and won't be 100% accurate. Particularly so for freight services.
This. If you want accurate and consistent reporting of freight services (particularly vSTP workings),I remember Tom explaining the necessity to sometimes work out his own offsets for passenger trains, but am not really sure if he would have done the same for freights?
They have definitely operated in 14 car ECS formations prior to entry into service. Occurred regularly back when the ECML and TPE units were having their liveries etc applied at Eastleigh TRSMD. So you’d have to assume it’s at least possible for rescue, even if the reservation systems throw a fit.800008 is working fine as it just passed my house on the way to Carmarthen. The 5 car sets work in multiple regularly of course, but can a 5 car actually work with a 9 car? Hate to think how the seat reservation system would cope!
Been changed on RTT now, looks like they are doing a set swap at Swansea, hence why two different units are being shown.