received a letter from Prosecution Department

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by kye_612, 9 Jun 2015.

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  1. kye_612

    kye_612 New Member

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    hi,
    so today i got a letter in the mail that said.

    "On (date) a person giving the above N and A was questioned by a member of rail staff about an indecent that occurred whilst on (train company) property. subsequently the matter has been reported to this office.

    all the evidence available is being considered as to whether legal proceedings are appropriate. if you consider that there are further mitigation factors that may influence any decisions that may be made about this matter you are invited to respond, in writing only, within 14 days. "

    im a bit unsure of what this letter is saying, whether it is a pre warning and they are going to prosecute me, or if an apology/written response will actually prevent anything further. i haven't been fined yet. and the letter states "THIS IS NOT A REQUEST FOR PAYMENT".

    i catch the train 5 days a week, my ticket is roughly £9 im an A level student. i have a lot of tickets lying around 30-50 showing that i pay for tickets on a regular, however disorganization usually results in me getting into trouble, and i arrived at the station as the train was about to leave and didn't have a ticket. i got stopped at my connection there where rail officers waiting at the station.
     
  2. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    Please can you give the full details ... journey made, time, date. which service you caught and stations involved. Please also advise what happened exactly and what you said when you were stopped. How is the letter from too, which train company?
     
  3. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    No. At this stage it isn't definite that they are going to prosecute you. This letter is an invitation to put your side of the story - a well crafted letter of apology may make the difference between being prosecuted or being 'let off' with a penalty.

    It isn't possible to advise which is more likely, nor on the size of any potential penalty without further information. What would help is the Train Operating Company (TOC) on whose service you travelled, the TOC who have sent you this letter (if different from the first), the stations involved, the details of any ticket that was held and a brief recap of the conversation you had with the staff member.
     
  4. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    We require that posts made in this section on prosecution threads stick to the topic at hand. I have deleted a number of off-topic posts and would ask from here on posts are made only to assist the OP reach a resolution to their problem.

    Any issues with thread titles should be reported ([​IMG]) to the Forum Staff for us to address.
     
  5. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    If you were being indecent then you are lucky you were not arrested at the time!
    Now if you mean incident that is a different matter. ;)

    If you travelled without a ticket then that is an easy prosecution, the fact you normally buy tickets is irrelevant, your actions on the day in question is all that matters.

    The letter is asking you to write back to them explaining why you didn't have a ticket on the occasion you were stopped, they will then decide what to do.
     
  6. Sparky-

    Sparky- Member

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    The fact you had no valid ticket to produce on the day of inspection is the issue.
    The evidence, to them, is simple, you had no valid ticket to produce on demand to an authorised revenue protection officer.

    They will move to prosecute if you do not reply to them, avoid their letters or become an unpleasent person to them, they have enough evidence.

    They will try to prosecute you probably (i'm not a lawyer), as I understand, under Railway Byelaw 18:

    18. Ticketless travel in non-compulsory ticket areas

    (1) In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel.

    (2) A person shall hand over his ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person.

    (3) No person shall be in breach of Byelaw 18(1) or 18(2) if:
    16

    (i) there were no facilities in working order for the issue or validation of any ticket at the time when, and the station where, he began his journey; or
    (ii) there was a notice at the station where he began his journey permitting journeys to be started without a valid ticket; or
    (iii) an authorised person gave him permission to travel without a valid ticket.

    I'm going to make an assumption that there were facilities in working order at the origin station - If you haven't checked then check if they were working or not! If they were, this counts against you.

    It is your responsibility to seek out the ticket inspector if you do not have a valid ticket for your train journey - I'm going to assume you sat down and didn't do this either.

    I assume there was no notices or authorised persons giving you permission either.

    So you have breached Byelaw 18 by travelling without a valid ticket. You need to give your side of the story, explain how it is out of charecter and make a sincere apology to them, say that you didn't realise it was an offence and you would like to pay for the ticket in full and any admin costs. You need to make a really good apology, they have you red-handed.

    If they offer you an out-of-court settlement, no matter the amount, take it. You can pay in installments and if you go to court, they'll throw the book at you and you'll be in a worse situation.

    Now both you and I know that if you really wanted to you could have bought a ticket or sought out the ticket inspector and you didn't. But now you have to give them reasonable doubt that it was a genuine and honest mistake, it can be done. Keep reading these forums, theres some good outcomes.

    But most of all, be genuinely sorry!

    Also, could I have more information.
    The station from and to. If you had to make changes, the ticket type and cost etc...?

    Many Thanks,
    Sparky-
     
  7. Ritson

    Ritson Member

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    Northern Rail went immediately for the Regulations of Railway Act 1889 with me - I was not unpleasant, happily gave my details to them, etc.

    In the end, like, it never went to court.

    But it doesn't appear to be a guaranteed "first move" by the Rail Companies-at least in my case.
     
  8. DaveNewcastle

    DaveNewcastle Established Member Fares Advisor

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    It is very unwise to suggest to anyone seeking advice following an incident that the outcome might be the same as another person's outcome from a different incident.
    We don't know enough from kye_412's resport to tell whether the circumstances would be captured by the RoRA or by the Railway Byelaws (or even by one of the other statutes which are occasionally prosecuted against non-paying passengers).

    It isn't. Unless the evidence is adequately persuasive to secure a prosecution without any further clarification from the passenger.
     
  9. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Technically this isn't true. If you board at a station without ticket vending facilities (or if the they don't accept your chosen method of payment) then your responsibility is to purchase a ticket at the earliest possible opportunity. If you are able to, then that is the guard/ticket inspector. If not (e.g. the guard doesn't make him/herself available due to other duties), then you can purchase it from a ticket machine/office at the destination station.
     
  10. Sparky-

    Sparky- Member

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    You're right. I was just saying, it is your responsibility, of course if the TI is not available then that is waived. But ultimately, you should get a ticket before boarding the train unless it's an impossibility to do so.

    Ultimately without more information I'm going to assume there was at least a working TVM on the station, that he didn't use and that the TI was available and he didn't go find him/her.
    If both of these weren't available and there was no ticket office in operation, then all should be dropped providing he didn't pass the final chance to buy a ticket (destination ticket office) and was stopped on the train or before the final chance to buy the ticket.

    I do hope he gets an out-of-court settlement either way - You pretty much learn your lesson with one of those rather than court.
     
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