Recovery and Prosecution Letter

[455driver]

Name, age and date of birth are a safe way to ensure they are dealing with the right person and should be enough information for there not to be any mistakes without giving away too much personal information.

But then I dont go around looking for conspiracy theories everywhere either.

 

[silencio]

Just they didn't have it previously so why ask for it (as it cant be match to anything)?

Trust me, i have no plans to "reoffend". I also have no plans to use Northern ever again. I dont need to take trains often, the only plans I can forsee are a couple of trips to London that Ill be getting advance Virgin fares.

Here's to hoping for a more appropriate response from them.

 

[Tibbs]

Name, age and date of birth are a safe way to ensure they are dealing with the right person and should be enough information for there not to be any mistakes without giving away too much personal information.

But then I dont go around looking for conspiracy theories everywhere either.

Very true, but they're not entitled to either age or date of birth, so they shouldn't be asking for it. Name & address should be enough to identify someone.

 

[michael769]

Very true, but they're not entitled to either age or date of birth, so they shouldn't be asking for it. Name & address should be enough to identify someone.

There is nothing wrong with asking as long as they understand that no is an acceptable answer!

 

[reb0118]

Name & address should be enough to identify someone.

No, also need date & place of birth to get accurate results back from PNC.

 

[Tibbs]

No, also need date & place of birth to get accurate results back from PNC.

Railway employees have access to PNC?

 

[michael769]

Railway employees have access to PNC?

They are not on the list:

Non-police organisations with access to PNC :
(Names file only access commensurate with their previously stated and agreed business needs)

Access Northern Ireland
Charity Commission for England and Wales
Criminal Cases Review Commission
Criminal Records Bureau
Defence Vetting Agency
Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform
Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Department for Transport
Department for Work and Pensions
Disclosure Scotland
Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency
Environment Agency
Financial Services Authority
Foreign and Commonwealth Office
Gangmasters Licensing Authority
G4S
Health and Safety Executive
Highways Agency
Her Majesty's Prison Service
Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs
Home Office
Independent Police Complaints Commission
States of Jersey Customs and Immigration Service
Mersey Tunnels Police
Ministry of Justice
National Air Traffic Service
National Health Service
Office for Civil Nuclear Security
Office of Fair Trading
Royal Mail
United Kingdom Border Agency
Vehicle and Operator Services Agency

In any event PNC Names file only has details of people "known" to the police - so it's not going to be much help in a lot of cases.

I would have thought ToCs would use CIFAS?

 

[455driver]

Very true, but they're not entitled to either age or date of birth, so they shouldn't be asking for it. Name & address should be enough to identify someone.

So you wouldnt mind being detained for an extra hour or so while they verify the details?

 

[Tibbs]

So you wouldnt mind being detained for an extra hour or so while they verify the details?

If I give you my name and address, and it checks out (I'm on the electoral roll) why would you be detaining me?

 

[455driver]

If it didnt check out and they got the feeling you were being awkward.

 

[Tibbs]

If it didnt check out and they got the feeling you were being awkward.

But it does check out - I've told you my name and address and I'm on the electoral register.

How does having my DOB help you when checking my name and address on the electoral roll?

/edit

If I give you a false name & address that doesn't check out, how does having a (likely false) DOB help you to identify me? Either way the BTP is going to be involved.

So come on you can do better than this - how would it help me to give you my DOB? Aside from your wrong assumption that every one who doens't just roll over and answer all of your questions is obviously guilty of something of course... :roll:

 

[455driver]

I could give you the name and address of 10 people on my street (they are all on the electoral register ) but I couldnt give you their dates of birth!
Well except for Steve at number 14 who turned 40 last Friday!

 

[jb]

So come on you can do better than this - how would it help me to give you my DOB?

More to the point perhaps, how does it help 455? I genuinely don't get how DOB helps.

 

[Tibbs]

I could give you the name and address of 10 people on my street (they are all on the electoral register ) but I couldnt give you their dates of birth!
Well except for Steve at number 14 who turned 40 last Friday!

Including postcodes? Around where I am postcodes only do about 6 houses each, so I'd be very impressed if you could reel off that many addresses and postcodes in a manner that would make someone think it was your own address.

All the same, you're not entitled to that information. The laws are skewed so far in favour of Rail companies and their employees that it doesn't seem unreasonable that they abide by the tiny limitations actually imposed upon them.

And yes, I'd be prepared to wait. We have few enough civil liberties nowadays that it's worth it to defend those we have.

 

[jon0844]

I think there's more than 10 addresses with the same post code on my road. Should check next time I order something and enter my post code!

 

[snail]

I think there's more than 10 addresses with the same post code on my road. Should check next time I order something and enter my post code!

There are 27 on my street. You can check by entering just your postcode here: http://www.royalmail.com/postcode-finder

 

[silencio]

Yeah, i thought a post code covered a whole street (on estates anyway).*

* probably not applicable to a main road.

 

[furlong]

Furthermore why do they require my occupation? This is none of their business as it has nothing to do with the events that day.

It might be one factor (amongst many) that could help them to decide whether or not a prosecution is worthwhile. It's possible that their experience shows some level of correlation between occupation and the results of cases.

For example - and this is just a possibility for which I have no evidence - if a criminal conviction would destroy a defendant's career, perhaps, statistically, the conviction rate turns out lower.

 

[soil]

surely they would rather threaten to prosecute a professional, who is motivated to pay, than an unemployed person with no career?

 

[Yew]

surely they would rather threaten to prosecute a professional, who is motivated to pay, than an unemployed person with no career?

On the other hand, they may have suitable capital to hire a good railway lawyer.

 

[silencio]

So, my last contact regarding this issue was when I called them on 8th April and they advised to hold off on the penalty letter I received and that they would issue a full response to the points I had provided them in my letter to them. They approximated that this may take "2-3 weeks", we are now on over 8 weeks.

So is it advisable that I sit this out with the seemingly likely scenario that they are not going to respond within the next 4 weeks or so (end of the 6 month period) or would it perhaps be more ideal for me to chase them yet again and find out where they are upto with this?

The service from them is getting poorer by the day.

 

[island]

Yeah, i thought a post code covered a whole street (on estates anyway).*

* probably not applicable to a main road.

It's technically one per "walk", which is often one side of a street.

So, my last contact regarding this issue was when I called them on 8th April and they advised to hold off on the penalty letter I received and that they would issue a full response to the points I had provided them in my letter to them. They approximated that this may take "2-3 weeks", we are now on over 8 weeks.

So is it advisable that I sit this out with the seemingly likely scenario that they are not going to respond within the next 4 weeks or so (end of the 6 month period) or would it perhaps be more ideal for me to chase them yet again and find out where they are upto with this?

The service from them is getting poorer by the day.

It seems to me like you have little to gain by chasing it as opposed to waiting.

 

[Cookie94]

Hi, silencio
This seems a bit of a strange question, but when you received the letter, was it just in a plain envelope?

 

[silencio]

I cant remember sorry. EDIT - not entirely sure what you're asking for but there were no major markings on the envelope, not like debt recovery or anything. Maybe just a return address on the back.

6 months is up from tomorrow so Ill call them on Monday and see what's the crack.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So...a little update. I called them up today as I hadn't had any response since that phone call nearly 3 months ago. I spoke to the same women that I spoke to back then and queried why I still had not received a response to my letter as she said I would. She stated that nothing further had been done since my phone call and I should wait another 2-3 weeks for a response and if I hadnt heard anything still, to call back. I then challenged her and asked whether it was correct that they have a 6 month time period to put a case before the courts which she agreed was correct. I then advised her that this time period had therefore elapsed. She put me on hold for about 5 minutes and checked with a colleague, came back and advised "that's the end of the matter". I advised that I wasnt happy and that I would still like a response to my letter and tried to push this for a quick response which she said would be a few weeks. I also took an Email address for customer services that I will be putting in a complaint to.

I felt a little bad for the woman I spoke to as she was pleasant and helpful (and I must have been challenging) however, even though I got away with "fare evading", this is the poorest example of customer services Ive ever come across. The threats of prosecution are ridiculous and the attempted bullying into trying to get me to pay over £80 more for something I consider their mistake is just infuriating.badd to that the fact that this has been hanging over me for 4 months just annoys me to no end.

So, that's where were at right now. Some of you will think Im bitter and should count myself lucky that Ive got away with it but as far as Im concerned this has not been brought to a satisfactory conclusion. I shall keep you updated.

Thanks to all that took part or offered advice in this thread.

 

[yorkie]

Thanks for getting back to us.