Refusal to use ticket barriers

[fowler9]

I think you only need your valid ticket to not work a few times before the average member of the public starts to wonder if they are quicker going through a manned barrier. A similarity may be the self service tills at supermarkets. On the whole they are probably slightly quicker but people just get a few examples in their head of when it isn't and its game over. I have a valid Trio ticket in Merseyside at the minute so it is a none starter and I have to use a manned barrier. I'd be quite happy with a smart card if I knew it would work.

 

[drbdrb]

When I travel on expenses, I simply ask for a receipt when I purchase rail ticket/car parking. Rail tickets may not be acceptable as receipts.

A receipt doesn't show what sort of ticket was bought, only that money was paid.

Many employers have restrictions on the type of ticket someone may be reimbursed.

 

[34D]

The majority of counterfeit tickets (all weekly Travelcards printed on NR/RSP stock) which I have come across work the ticket gates fine.

In that case, how did you detect them as fakes?
(it may be inappropriate for you to answer this, which we will of course understand)

 

[Marton]

A receipt doesn't show what sort of ticket was bought, only that money was paid.

Many employers have restrictions on the type of ticket someone may be reimbursed.

It seems to depend on the type of receipt.

When I buy on line or at a ticket machine all i get is a collection receipt for the total value of the tickets.

When I buy at the station booking office it's an itemised receipt by class, type and journey.


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[Chrisgr31]

I find that in the mornings at Charing Cross it tends to be quicker to go through the manned barrier, because invariably someone in the queue, (or several people) will have a problem with the ticket, either it doesn't work, or they have swiped it and let the person in front through by mistake.

In the evening it tends to be quicker to go through the automated barrier, assuming my ticket works.

However I am already on my 3rd replacement ticket since the beginning of the year so te chances of my ticket not working are high!

 

[anme]

no barrier retains tickets on entry, that would be silly. trc666 talks of people buying tickets then not trying the barrier. If an antry barrier retained your ticket you would have bigger problems than expenses.

I have had entry barriers retain my ticket twice, in the course of probably a couple of thousand journeys. Both times the ticket was valid with a starting point of that station on one occasion, and a travelcard on the other (so not something weird or unusual).

The barrier staff took out the 'waste bin' from the barrier, and my ticket was found quite quickly (as it was near the top). It seemed to be a routine operation.

It's not common, but it does happen. If my experience is typical, probably every few thousand entries - maybe every 3-4 twelve coach peak time trains.

 

[47802]

A receipt doesn't show what sort of ticket was bought, only that money was paid.

Many employers have restrictions on the type of ticket someone may be reimbursed.

My former employers wouldn't accept only receipts you needed to have at least the outward or return half of the Tickets as well.

The bottom line is the railway companies might love them but most passengers don't so its hardly surprising that many passengers will avoid them if they can

 

[Michael.Y]

I have had entry barriers retain my ticket twice, in the course of probably a couple of thousand journeys. Both times the ticket was valid with a starting point of that station on one occasion, and a travelcard on the other (so not something weird or unusual).

The barrier staff took out the 'waste bin' from the barrier, and my ticket was found quite quickly (as it was near the top). It seemed to be a routine operation.

It's not common, but it does happen. If my experience is typical, probably every few thousand entries - maybe every 3-4 twelve coach peak time trains.

That sounds more like a mechanical failure than a computer failure - like when a pool table doesn't return the white ball when it's been potted? Your ticket could have been accidentally sent the wrong way in the internal mechanism.

 

[David Sinnett]

Do the barriers recognise individual tickets, especially seasons? Can a Rail co tell when or how often a particular ticket holder travels?

If so, the Rail Co could offer an incentive for using the barriers. Perhaps family ticket or similar?

 

[scotsman]

Could it not be a psychological thing? Person sees path blocked, follows line until they find a way through?

 

[Deerfold]

Do the barriers recognise individual tickets, especially seasons? Can a Rail co tell when or how often a particular ticket holder travels?

If so, the Rail Co could offer an incentive for using the barriers. Perhaps family ticket or similar?

No. Most barriers retain no information about what types of ticket have passed through them, certainly not individual tickets.

I'm not sure how a "family" ticket relates to the rest of your comment.

 

[David Sinnett]

No. Most barriers retain no information about what types of ticket have passed through them, certainly not individual tickets.

I'm not sure how a "family" ticket relates to the rest of your comment.

I was thinking of an incentive to get people using the barriers. Frequent flyer style.... More days passing through the barriers equals free trips for ticket holder and family......

 

[Deerfold]

I was thinking of an incentive to get people using the barriers. Frequent flyer style.... More days passing through the barriers equals free trips for ticket holder and family......

And more complaints from people with tickets which won't work the barriers who now also miss out on the rewards

 

[Holly]

A rather obvious case against electromechanical ticket barriers is that they diminish the amount of employment of human ticket inspectors.

Humans who benefit from wages and who are flexible enough to do all sorts of helpful and pleasant things that machines cannot as and when the need arises.
Not to mention smile and exchange courtesies with passengers that brighten everyone's day and make life just that little bit more worth living.

And when, soon enough, we have rolling blackouts and extended internet failures due to insufficient generating capacity, humans will cope much better than machines.

 

[Deerfold]

A rather obvious case against electromechanical ticket barriers is that they diminish the amount of employment of human ticket inspectors.

Humans who benefit from wages and who are flexible enough to do all sorts of helpful and pleasant things that machines cannot as and when the need arises.
Not to mention smile and exchange courtesies with passengers that brighten everyone's day and make life just that little bit more worth living.

And when, soon enough, we have rolling blackouts and extended internet failures due to insufficient generating capacity, humans will cope much better than machines.

Now you just need to convince the TOCs - who are mostly on relatively short franchises

 

[D1009]

A rather obvious case against electromechanical ticket barriers is that they diminish the amount of employment of human ticket inspectors.

Humans who benefit from wages and who are flexible enough to do all sorts of helpful and pleasant things that machines cannot as and when the need arises.
Not to mention smile and exchange courtesies with passengers that brighten everyone's day and make life just that little bit more worth living.

And when, soon enough, we have rolling blackouts and extended internet failures due to insufficient generating capacity, humans will cope much better than machines.

Well down in FGW land, where there are gatelines there are usually at least 3 members of staff manning them whereas in BR days there were neither gatelines nor staff. Although gateline staff these days rarely smile or exchange courtesies.

 

[londonboi198o5]

What Victoria Nr Station were doing for a whole was when people got off the train they made a run for the manual gate. Normally staff let them through however this morning they were not and handed everyone whose ticket "didn't work" a gate ticket which was a Orange NR ticket that they inserted into the barriers to let themselves out. It amazed me how many of the people that were rushing to show there tickets got them out there ticket wallets and used them today when they saw that staff were not allowing them through the manual gate and handing them these orange tickets

 

[Goatboy]

Well down in FGW land, where there are gatelines there are usually at least 3 members of staff manning them whereas in BR days there were neither gatelines nor staff. Although gateline staff these days rarely smile or exchange courtesies.

Except at Cheltenham Spa, where there is a stupid video link you need to faff around with just to pop out to the shop whilst changing trains.

No place for barriers at a station like Cheltenham, where there is ample time for ticket inspection on virtually every service that calls there.

 

[anme]

That sounds more like a mechanical failure than a computer failure - like when a pool table doesn't return the white ball when it's been potted? Your ticket could have been accidentally sent the wrong way in the internal mechanism.

That could well be - obviously I couldn't tell and anyway it makes no difference to the passenger whether the failure is mechanical, electronic or software.

BTW, I remember that both tickets worked fine at subsequent barrier checks.

 

[MyFriendMary]

Do those of you in gateline or revenue roles just let them through or do you insist they put it in the barrier?

Depends on several factors. Default of which is to attempt to insert it myself to see the error code, if one does occur, and then use my own pass to allow the customer through - takes seconds.

This allows me to see if the ticket is valid and why an error code is given and if the barriers need their settings adjusted for certain types of tickets to allow them entry.

 

[GatwickDepress]

At Hastings, I was the only passenger alighting from a late night Tunbridge Wells - Hastings shuttle (engineering works), and as there were no more trains to Ore (I held an Ore - Redhill return) I left at Hastings.

As I've noted happens sometimes, the outward and return portions managed to get themselves stuck back-to-back. I showed it to the gateline assistant who insisted I put my return through the barrier. After about 30 seconds of me trying to unstick them - and a bit of small talk - he gave up and let me through.

 

[starrymarkb]

Now you just need to convince the TOCs - who are mostly on relatively short franchises

And the DfT who are writing barriers into franchise specs

 

[Drsatan]

Except at Cheltenham Spa, where there is a stupid video link you need to faff around with just to pop out to the shop whilst changing trains.

No place for barriers at a station like Cheltenham, where there is ample time for ticket inspection on virtually every service that calls there.

I've had similar issues with the remote videolink at the New North Road exit to Exeter Central and at a couple of stations, where you're left waiting for two to three minutes for someone to answer.

 

[tsr]

How about Reigate... suppose you're going to Reading but want to get to the toilet or small café counter - to do this, you have to get someone to let you through one set of the barriers to use the facilities, and then back again on return, then go down into the subway, up and through another set - where, if your ticket doesn't work, you have to use a videolink to the same person who just let you out of the station... who may then be busy...

Whilst the barriers may well significantly reduce fare evasion, it's a pity they couldn't have been positioned to only control access to the platforms. It's also a shame they couldn't build a heated waiting room into the gateline hut on the Westbound platform. The existing large canopy can be incredibly uncomfortable in winter.

 

[grid56126]

He'd say "so you're self-employed and travelling on business!"

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/factsheets/expenses-allowances.pdf

I was referring to claiming tax back. Rail travel (and indeed all public transport) has a ZERO % tax rate. You would be amazed at how many people are unaware of this. If you want to have a debate about whether you can fiddle it by claiming VAT as a consultant purchasing the ticket from a third party then you will need to seek the assistance of a lawyer as I believe this is the way it has been done in the past.

 

[Mojo]

In that case, how did you detect them as fakes?
(it may be inappropriate for you to answer this, which we will of course understand)

Because, on a visual inspection, they look and/or feel like counterfeit tickets, and on occasion the data stored on the stripe of the ticket does not match up with what is printed on the front.

 

[reb0118]

Rail travel (and indeed all public transport) has a ZERO % tax rate.

I am aware of this in the UK but does this also apply in Europe? I'm sure I've seen something like "MST 19.0%" on German rail tickets.

German VAT is called Mehrwertsteuer (MwSt). It is also sometimes known as Umsatzsteuer (UST, or UmSt). The standard rate of German VAT is 19%, but a reduced rate of 7% may apply to some supplies.

Looks like they do charge VAT on German rail tickets. Does George Osbourne know?

 

[scotsman]

Looks like they do charge VAT on German rail tickets. Does George Osbourne know?

And cement his place in history as Britain's least popular Chancellor?

 

[swj99]

I keep getting email updates to this thread. And each time I see the title, I say to myself, it's probably not a refusal to use ticket barriers, but a reluctance to use them.

Do I win a 5p permit to travel ?

 

[Marton]

I keep getting email updates to this thread. And each time I see the title, I say to myself, it's probably not a refusal to use ticket barriers, but a reluctance to use them.

Do I win a 5p permit to travel ?

No idea about the winning, but you are right about reluctance.

I need tickets for claims. If I don't know I will get it back (ie east coast station) I refuse to use it.

Barrier staff at paddington last week seemed very upset I wanted my ticket for a claim.

Perhaps a notice telling you if it swallows or regurgitates might be worth it.

Even better a national policy.....


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