Refusal to use ticket barriers

[trc666]

I've noticed recently that more and more passengers are requesting to be manually let through ticket barriers despite having working tickets to the point where I have even seen people buy tickets from TVMs and walk straight up to a member of staff claiming it does not work without actually attempting to try it.

I'm not talking about non working seasons or Gold Cards here but standard singles, returns and Day Travelcards being used by able bodied passengers with no bags or children, bikes etc.

Do those of you in gateline or revenue roles just let them through or do you insist they put it in the barrier?

 

[user15681]

A lot, especially on the Underground, will insist you put it through the barriers. There has been a thread on this recently which you may find through the search function or someone may be able to provide a link.

 

[tsr]

Sometimes, at a local station, I buy a ticket from a Southern TVM from a station further down the line & start short on it (don't worry - I do check that this is permitted, etc.). Unfortunately, the gateline's systems will reject my ticket, as it is not from the named station where I purchased the ticket, nor of any of the consecutive stations on the local routes. It doesn't help that the barriers are also very old (indeed, they are about to be replaced) and don't seem to have as many flexible options for the staff to decide which tickets can be accepted.

I am well aware of this issue for tickets starting at certain alternative locations, and so will always request to be let through by default. On rare occasions, I absent-mindedly do ask to be let through on tickets which start at the barriered station in question, and I am asked to put them into the barriers, which I have no problem with doing, once my mistake has been pointed out!

 

[aleph_0]

Not answering your question, but us passengers usually pick the most convenient option. There are many ticket/gateline combinations where perfectly valid tickets are rejected. I think a lot of the distrust of ticket barriers can be put down to this. Maybe the spread of barriers, and more selective programming is causing this - a passenger only needs to be inconvenienced once or twice before they decide humans are better.

Of course, passengers shouldn't say "this (particular) ticket doesn't work", when they haven't tried it, but I can understand someone saying/thinking "this ticket (type) didn't work last time I tried".

As a passenger, I think gateline staff encouraging passengers to put the ticket through is a good idea. If it is rejected, though, the ticket should be noted and the barriers fixed.

 

[Parallel]

I did see someone at a station with barriers the other day with a ticket who was refusing to put it through the barrier - Then I noticed it had yesterday's date on it but the gateline staff member put it through for him and then when it declined, he said it was because it was an off peak ticket and not an anytime one not realising that it had yesterday's date on it. That's all I saw but he probably realised someone was trying to travel through on the previous day's ticket upon closer inspection. At least, I hope he did!

Can't fool the machine so why not try to fool the member of staff instead?!

 

[nickswift99]

I've noticed recently that more and more passengers are requesting to be manually let through ticket barriers despite having working tickets to the point where I have even seen people buy tickets from TVMs and walk straight up to a member of staff claiming it does not work without actually attempting to try it.

I'm not talking about non working seasons or Gold Cards here but standard singles, returns and Day Travelcards being used by able bodied passengers with no bags or children, bikes etc.

Do those of you in gateline or revenue roles just let them through or do you insist they put it in the barrier?

In my experience, there is a near 100% failure rate of magnetic stripes on tickets issued on FGW using portable machines. I've heard various excuses from poor ticket stock through to alignment of the stock in the machine.

When your local station only has one ticket machine and it doesn't work when it's raining, has been raining, or even thinks about raining, I can tell you from bitter experience that using a Travelcard with a non-functioning mag stripe is not fun or efficient.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Of course, passengers shouldn't say "this (particular) ticket doesn't work", when they haven't tried it, but I can understand someone saying/thinking "this ticket (type) didn't work last time I tried".

I can't quite agree with that.
Say I use my ticket to get through the barriers to use station facilities. I then try to return through the barriers a couple of minutes later. I know that the barriers will reject the ticket. Why on earth should I be forced to waste my time (and the gateline assistants time)?

 

[talldave]

I had the opposite problem this week at Victoria. Trying to get to an imminently departing train on platform 16, a member of staff was trying to prevent people using the ticket barriers and making them join a queue to go through the staffed barrier onto platform 15. Those people who ignored him (not me, I hasten to add) and put their tickets through the barriers sailed through without any problem.

 

[Parallel]

In my experience, there is a near 100% failure rate of magnetic stripes on tickets issued on FGW using portable machines. I've heard various excuses from poor ticket stock through to alignment of the stock in the machine.

Usually if I have to buy a ticket on the train they do work, but I have had a couple of occasions when a perfectly valid ticket I had just bought doesn't go through the barrier... FGW as well funnily enough!

 

[aleph_0]

I can't quite agree with that.
Say I use my ticket to get through the barriers to use station facilities. I then try to return through the barriers a couple of minutes later. I know that the barriers will reject the ticket. Why on earth should I be forced to waste my time (and the gateline assistants time)?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I don't think you should. I meant if someone had a ticket that should work, then making sure the ticket goes through the barrier is a good idea (checks ticket, reassures passenger gates work). In your example, clearly telling the gateline assistant you have just passed through should be sufficient.

 

[zoneking]

Yesterday my perfectly good annual Zones 2-6 Gold Card was rejected by the barriers at Heathrow Terminal 5 (Piccadilly Line). No wonder people mistrust the barriers - half the time they do not work.

 

[317666]

I used to have a mobile phone case which had a magnet in, presumably to hold the phone in place. Of course this meant whenever it ended up in the same pocket as my ticket (which always ended up happening, even if I tried not to!) the ticket would have the magnetic data stripped off of it and would no longer work in barriers! So I got into the habit of not even trying it, until the day that I ended up with a different phone.

 

[swj99]

Isn't it just the case that people would prefer to deal with another human being rather than a machine ?
Despite some of them occasionally behaving like twunts, humans are social and it is normal to want to interact. But you can't do this if you make your purchases from a machine. And if you speak to it, it either makes a silly noise, or comes out with some sort of recorded message about how the next train is delayed due to the wrong type of fare dodgers, or that it's grateful you've shopped at Sainsburys.

 

[DeeGee]

Let's say I have bought an expensive ticket myself and need to keep it to claim it back on expenses or against Income Tax or something.

In my experience some ticket gates retain single tickets.

If that single ticket cost a lot of money, would you take the risk?

 

[mullin]

What if your employer wishes to see copies of tickets for expenses?

 

[jopsuk]

no barrier retains tickets on entry, that would be silly. trc666 talks of people buying tickets then not trying the barrier. If an antry barrier retained your ticket you would have bigger problems than expenses.

 

[reb0118]

Then you present your receipt that you requested when purchasing your ticket. (NB to avoid going off topic this matter has already been done to death! )

 

[87019Chris]

I use Leeds station daily, and when ever I have to go through the ticket barriers I always approach the staff member stood by the gate, they never seem to have a problem and I don't have to stop, or slow down (I walk very fast I'm a commuter). Why I do this; sometimes feel like cattle being counted if I put my ticket through the actual barrier, and also I hate the fact that whenever I seem to use the barrier and its busy I always follow someone that gets stuck or isn't let through or is slow and confused by them and so delays me whereas when I just go to the person and I show my ticket, I know its valid, they see it is valid and there is no problem, and personally we wouldn't need barriers if everyone was an honest person that just paid for there ticket and didn't try to evade fares hock:

 

[grid56126]

Let's say I have bought an expensive ticket myself and need to keep it to claim it back on expenses or against Income Tax or something.

In my experience some ticket gates retain single tickets.

If that single ticket cost a lot of money, would you take the risk?

Will be interesting to see the tax man's reply

 

[DXMachina]

One of my employers usefully suggested that rail transport users take photos of their tickets with their phones and email it in as an expense claim immediately - this has the added benefit of faster processing / recording, which is good for the company and the employee

 

[DeeGee]

Will be interesting to see the tax man's reply

He'd say "so you're self-employed and travelling on business!"

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/factsheets/expenses-allowances.pdf

 

[nrturner]

This morning an RPI was at Bradford Interchange, in addition to the regular gateline operators, and was making almost everyone put their tickets through the barriers. Thankfully not mine as it's a MetroCard with no magnetic strip!

Last week I managed to get to Leeds without being able to buy a ticket so I bought one from the desk on the platform side - and it wouldn't work with the barriers.

 

[SF-02]

A lot, especially on the Underground, will insist you put it through the barriers. There has been a thread on this recently which you may find through the search function or someone may be able to provide a link.

I'm not surprised they force it on the tube. I've just read about a massive fraud scheme where they were printing passports, drivers licenses, and tickets. Out of those ones tickets must be easy to fake and then just show it to get through. Seeing an RPI on a train is a once in a year thing, if that, in parts of London. Even then loads of people suddenly move carriage when they appear so aren't questioned - not dodgy at all that! With most stations ungated the only obstacle to a fake would be London terminal station barriers.

 

[Greenback]

He'd say "so you're self-employed and travelling on business!"

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/factsheets/expenses-allowances.pdf

When I was self employed I was advised that the receipt or sales voucher would be sufficient, and it was not necessary to keep the actual ticket.

 

[Mojo]

I'm not surprised they force it on the tube. I've just read about a massive fraud scheme where they were printing passports, drivers licenses, and tickets. Out of those ones tickets must be easy to fake and then just show it to get through. Seeing an RPI on a train is a once in a year thing, if that, in parts of London. Even then loads of people suddenly move carriage when they appear so aren't questioned - not dodgy at all that! With most stations ungated the only obstacle to a fake would be London terminal station barriers.

The majority of counterfeit tickets (all weekly Travelcards printed on NR/RSP stock) which I have come across work the ticket gates fine.

 

[Marton]

I can't quite agree with that.

Say I use my ticket to get through the barriers to use station facilities. I then try to return through the barriers a couple of minutes later. I know that the barriers will reject the ticket. Why on earth should I be forced to waste my time (and the gateline assistants time)?

Or when you start or finish short and know it won't work.


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[SPADTrap]

I have to agree with many who have said it's often the easiest option, especially if one is rushing for a train! I've found that people really do prefer the human interaction this creates and when I was on the gate line for a short period of time it is what passed the day! I also personally felt that for my generous salary and benefits if the occasional passenger flashed their ticket at me, usually a gold card that they'd forked out 4 figures for I was plenty happy to open the gates manually for them! It's embarrassing how frequently these things don't work considering the price!

I never understand gate line staff who insist on putting them through the barriers every single time, I always prefer looking with my own eyes! I know of the problems that can arise if every single person expects it but that's the job really.

 

[drbdrb]

Or you get the situation at one station I pass through, where every night one (and only one) of the gate staff puts on every single rejection they can. Every night.
So those who are regular travellers, as soon as they see this person, they know they have to go and queue at the manual gate if they have any kind of discounted ticket.

Meanwhile those of us with normal tickets know that there will be delays at the barriers, as irregular travellers with discount tickets will try to put their ticket through several times wondering why it doesn't work. And does the gate guard standing 3' away seeing a teenager repeatedly inserting their ticket say anything. Do they heck.

And as it is a commuter train, add in a few Brompton bike owners needing to use the wide gate as well.

And how many people does this person catch that all the other gate guards miss, because they don't put the restrictions on? I am always one of the last to pass through the barriers, and I have never seen anyone stopped.

UK Railways delivering excellent customer service.

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[Cherry_Picker]

I'd seek a bit of clarification on the original question/statement. I mean, is it true? If so, what bits? I don't spend anywhere near enough time on a ticket barrier to have an informed opinion, I pass through them several times a day and sometimes I will have a chat with colleagues who work on barriers at various stations but I've not noticed a marked increase in anti ticket barrier feeling amongst the passengers over the years.

I guess it is possible that more people are asking for a manual inspection, I mean more people are travelling by train these days than at any point in living memory (well, in about 80 years which is essentially the same thing) and barriers are being installed at an ever increasing number of stations so obviously more people will encounter barriers these days than they would say, five, ten or twenty years ago but does that mean that there has been an attitude change towards barriers or does it just mean we are dealing with economies of scale?

 

[Andrewlong]

One of my employers usefully suggested that rail transport users take photos of their tickets with their phones and email it in as an expense claim immediately - this has the added benefit of faster processing / recording, which is good for the company and the employee

When I travel on expenses, I simply ask for a receipt when I purchase rail ticket/car parking. Rail tickets may not be acceptable as receipts.