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Removal of Luton-Dunstable railway bridges for Busway

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Trog

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The slow lines are on the east of the fasts and services would have to cross the fasts. Are there paths available on the fasts to allow this? If not, there needs to be a flyover.

Jason


Extend the reopening southwards until the branch runs under the MML at Chiltern Green, then join the MML from the slow side. Most of the track bed was still there last time I looked apart from a short section with some commercial units and a road on it north of the old Luton Hoo station.

But it is not going to happen. :cry:
 
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asylumxl

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A bit off topic, but my mum was recently on a bus and heard someone ranting about this very subject, whom appeared to be a train enthusiast. Was it anyone from this thread? :)
 

Greenback

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I am sure none of our esteemed members would ever indulge in a rant in public on a bus!
 

hairyhandedfool

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....There is no way to extend the line westwards to Leighton Buzzard. There's a new housing development in Dunstable itself on the trackbed, the A505 has pinched a few miles and the approach into LB has been heavily built on. It'd be essentially a new build on a different allignment.
V. expensive and it doesn't fill a strategic need....

IIRC, there was never a plan to extend beyond Dunstable, I don't believe NSE had plans for that when they put 'Dunstable' on the NSE destination blinds, and the council's original plan ideas never covered it.

Even if they did want to extend it, they could re-route it to follow the A505 until it reaches the West Coast Mainline just south of Leighton Buzzard.

....The link to the main line at Luton would be difficult. Even if the Luton FCC terminators were extended to Dunstable along a reopened branch line, how wold they get there?
The slow lines are on the east of the fasts and services would have to cross the fasts. Are there paths available on the fasts to allow this? If not, there needs to be a flyover. This'd be expensive for a short branchline with 1 station....

I believe the terminators (that use platform 2) can still access the Up Fast upon departure, when the semi-fast (Bedford-Brighton) trains are delayed by a few minutes. They swap back to the slows at Harpenden Junction. When they terminate in 3 that is the only way out.

In any case it shouldn't be hard to put a junction in for the branch, the fast lines (IIRC) see one or two FCC trains an hour (northbound as far as Leagrave Junction) and three or four EMT services each way.

Infact there is still a signal from the branch at Luton in place, but there was a direct link form the MML to the branch as freight used to use it for a while and on carnival days there used to be a unit that shuttled up the branch (it wasn't kept on the branch as far as I know).

The station car park would have to be sacrificed to re-build Bute St. Station but there is no reason the carpark couldn't be built on top of it. It wasn't that long ago (5-10 years ago) that they planned to rebuild the station area entirely with better links to the bus station and Arndale centre.

....A re-build as light rail or tram would be a single run of a few miles from Luton into Dunstable. There'd be little or no expansion potential at a sensible cost. The system would be small and all of the maintainence infrastructure would have to be built to service a small number of tram/light rail cars.
It'd be prohibitally expensive....

A tram system would also be subject to traffic in the centres, but it could be extended to Houghton Regis, Farley Hill and Caddington, Limbury and Sundon Park, Stopsley, and London Luton Airport (providing an alternative to the shuttle bus from Luton Airport Parkway and VTs service from Milton Keynes, aswell as the local buses from the town centre)

....If the route is used as a busway, then at least the route is used. It has low costs as the maintainence of the buses can be undertaken at existing depots and they can be used on normal roads.
Even though I think rail should be used wherever possible, I think that this is the best that can be achieved for this route. Sad but ecomonics are the key driver....

And when the busway needs maintence or a bus breaks down and buses end up on the roads they were supposed to avoid?....

The busway was the easiest option, not the best one. The council were pledged £78m by government alone for it back in the late 90s/early 2000s.

It is not a question of it is used, I don't believe that it would simply have been left to rot any longer, however, I do believe the Luton Borough Council had no other intentions for it after the failure of the relief road.

Trains could be maintained in a depot that is probably already in existance (Cauldwell Walk or Selhurst), maintenance of the line would be infrequent or overnight/on Sundays when demand is less anyway), journey times would be faster than for a bus and the people of Dunstable would have a direct link to London instead of having to change in the centre of Luton, possibly with a walk from the town hall to the station (only the 31 and X31 route buses went to the station when I was down there).
 

Deerfold

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Trains could be maintained in a depot that is probably already in existance (Cauldwell Walk or Selhurst), maintenance of the line would be infrequent or overnight/on Sundays when demand is less anyway), journey times would be faster than for a bus and the people of Dunstable would have a direct link to London instead of having to change in the centre of Luton, possibly with a walk from the town hall to the station (only the 31 and X31 route buses went to the station when I was down there).

Ah, now the crap connections between buses and trains in Luton are a different matter. Arriva seemed to have some sort of fall out with the council so stopped using the (fairly crap) bus station which was at least somewhere near the train station.
 
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Proposed heritage railway in Dunstable

There is a scheme for a short length of the Luton to Dunstable railway to be retained as a heritage attraction as part of the ongoing environmental evaluation of the Bus way.

Bus way promotors Luton Borough Council have indicated that the potential heritage value of the disused railway has been recognised.

There would be a compound (road access and sidings) on the site of the pallet store at the Oil Sidings land off High Street North, and a short running line East towards Triangle and Park.

Yahoo! Group is at
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Dunstable_Railway_Centre/

Facebook Group is at
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=101535814486

Facebook Page is at
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dunstable-United-Kingdom/South_Bedfordshire_Railway/114408429930

Web site is at
http://south_bedfordshire_railway.webs.com/

If interested in retaining part of disused line beside bus way
http://south_bedfordshire_railway.webs.com/retainlutondunstable.htm
 
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MidnightFlyer

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Bus way promotors Luton Borough Council have indicated that the potential heritage value of the disused railway has been recognised.


Aye, it would be even more potential value if it reopened fully as an operational heavy railway!!! 'Bus way promoters': my God, they actually exist.
 

asylumxl

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There is a scheme for a short length of the Luton to Dunstable railway to be retained as a heritage attraction as part of the ongoing environmental evaluation of the Bus way.

Please don't be offended, but I doubt anything will ever come of this.

And 20 years down the line, the local people will be reminiscing and saying what a shame it is that the railway no longer exists.

20 years too late. This is the story of Luton through and through.
 

hairyhandedfool

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But you could turn that round and say when a railway needs emergency maintainance or a train breaks down, the whole thing grinds to a halt...

Trains can rescue each other though, a breakdown with a 15 minute interval service might suffer 30 minute delays to a couple of trains, but you'd have to get a breakdown truck to the bus before it could be cleared up, and every bus unfortunate enough to have entered the us route would be stuck behind it or have to reverse out of it and go around. The emergency works point is fair.
 

A0

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Proposed heritage railway in Dunstable

There is a scheme for a short length of the Luton to Dunstable railway to be retained as a heritage attraction as part of the ongoing environmental evaluation of the Bus way.

Bus way promotors Luton Borough Council have indicated that the potential heritage value of the disused railway has been recognised.

There would be a compound (road access and sidings) on the site of the pallet store at the Oil Sidings land off High Street North, and a short running line East towards Triangle and Park.

Yahoo! Group is at
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Dunstable_Railway_Centre/

Facebook Group is at
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=101535814486

Facebook Page is at
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dunstable-United-Kingdom/South_Bedfordshire_Railway/114408429930

Web site is at
http://south_bedfordshire_railway.webs.com/

If interested in retaining part of disused line beside bus way
http://south_bedfordshire_railway.webs.com/retainlutondunstable.htm

I have a funny sense of deja vu about this proposal.... I'm sure there are some old threads about it :roll:

With regard to the line itself, I think there are too many obstacles to linking it up to the MML - the area which was Bute St station has been built over (both car parking and Luton Uni buildings. There's definitely a bridge missing in the town centre end. And I'm fairly sure the route south towards Luton Hoo's been obstructed by various building (retail park, A505 changes etc).

At the other end, there's office building in Dunstable on the west side of the A5, housing and also various incursions onto the formation south of Leighton Buzzard.

Whilst it's a pity, the reality is that the best opportunity to reopen it would have been under NSE in the late 80s - when the infrastructure was in place still, but even then it would only have been to Dunstable.

I think the reason Arriva stopped using the old bus station is it was due for closure as part of the town centre / Arndale redevelopment?
 

Deerfold

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I think the reason Arriva stopped using the old bus station is it was due for closure as part of the town centre / Arndale redevelopment?

Must have been 4 years ago (it's 3 since I last caught a bus to Luton...). I take it the bus station is stil there.
 

hairyhandedfool

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I thought a lot of the buses stopped using the bus station long before that, but that might be my memory playing tricks on me.
 

asylumxl

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Must have been 4 years ago (it's 3 since I last caught a bus to Luton...). I take it the bus station is stil there.

No. Was knocked down LONG ago. Now a "temporary" carpark for shoppers.

I thought a lot of the buses stopped using the bus station long before that, but that might be my memory playing tricks on me.

Yes they did. Probably about a year before it was closed and demolished.
 

DJ_K666

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I despise buses as transport, and guided busways seem to bring us all the disadvantages of tram/train without any of the advantages of bus travel. Let's see how much of a fail this turns out to be.

You despise buses as transport. You should try driving the things, you'd REALLY hate them then. I should know, I drive them for a living...

One saving grace for light rail is LR55 rail. When this scheme fails they can just cut a slot into concrete of the busway and drop it in, then grout it up with cement. Should be relatively easy to convert a failed busway into a bus and tram route.
 

Jonny

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You despise buses as transport. You should try driving the things, you'd REALLY hate them then. I should know, I drive them for a living...

One saving grace for light rail is LR55 rail. When this scheme fails they can just cut a slot into concrete of the busway and drop it in, then grout it up with cement. Should be relatively easy to convert a failed busway into a bus and tram route.

Redemption for a misguided busway then?
 
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