Rescheduled strike dates

[Bristol Rover]

I presume the RMT will reballot on strike action - is there any early news on potential dates?

What is the minimum notice they must serve? 10 days?

I have a number of travel plans this month, some of which I have already booked, and it'd be useful to know asap so contigency plans can be made.

 

[attics26]

another ballot without getting the members database updated would presumably be pointless so I would imagine it would be quite awhile before that stage is reached again.

 

[merlodlliw]

I presume the RMT will reballot on strike action - is there any early news on potential dates?

What is the minimum notice they must serve? 10 days?

I have a number of travel plans this month, some of which I have already booked, and it'd be useful to know asap so contigency plans can be made.

It is my opinion, strike dates will be published , but an agreement will be reached for Mr Crow to say he got something, as a face saver.

 

[TDK]

It is my opinion, strike dates will be published , but an agreement will be reached for Mr Crow to say he got something, as a face saver.

Mr. Crows response was pathetic, if I was in the RMT I would stop my subs and look elsewhere. However apparently there were I think a dozen or so signal boxes included that do not exist and some left out completely, this is a shambles by the RMT and to update their database will take quite a while, I still cannot see the connection between the signallers and the job losses (the reason for the strike). I think if there is another ballot it won't be this month.

 

[merlodlliw]

Mr. Crows response was pathetic, if I was in the RMT I would stop my subs and look elsewhere. However apparently there were I think a dozen or so signal boxes included that do not exist and some left out completely, this is a shambles by the RMT and to update their database will take quite a while, I still cannot see the connection between the signallers and the job losses (the reason for the strike). I think if there is another ballot it won't be this month.

I agree, I was an FOC in the old sogat print union,If Baroness Brenda Dean, had acted like Mr Crow in public, we would all have torn up our cards.
balloting a box closed 50 years ago says it all.

 

[313103]

I am in the RMT and i would like for TDK to 1 explain why i should leave? and 2 if i do leave where do i go?

Appaently and think do not represent FACT, so it might be a good idea to find out first before making wild accusations.

 

[Max]

As far as I'm aware reballoting cannot occur until the court case has finished, which could be as long as several months.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

As far as I'm aware reballoting cannot occur until the court case has finished, which could be as long as several months.

Eh?
An injunction preventing the Union from authorising members to strike was applied for, and an injunction preventing them from doing that was granted. That's that.
If an Appeal by the RMT is requested and granted, (and I'm not aware that it has been, as yet) then I still don't understand how that precludes the Union from announcing and beginning another ballot. The dual strategy of an Appeal and simultaneously re-balloting would, I'm sure, be challenged by NR as the Respondents to the Appeal, when we get round to hearing the Appeal, and the Union may be asked to decide which one of the two strategies they wish to pursue, one or the other, but until that time . . . . I'm struggling to see why the Union cannot.

However, I think we're agreed that they have a more pressing need, and that is to update their database of Members' place of work. I'm sure we all accept that the Union must now pursue that task as a matter of urgency.
Sadly for the RMT, that urgent flurry of activity would also be used by the Respondent as evidence of failure (ie, if they are seen to be suddenly busy updating their records it suggests that they agree that they were faulty - which was precisely the evidence which made the strike unlawful and so what are they doing Appealling against the decision if they're acknowledging that the records are faulty?). This is the point on which the RMT and their advisors will be stuck.
If they do NOT Appeal, and instead simply update all Membership records ASAP, then they can go straight to another ballot.

But as I've asked elsewhere (and no one has answered) why are we, and the Union, not busying themselves with the 3 issues that brought them into dispute?
I asked in this post on the Network Rail Signallers: Strike Action thread yesterday,

I'm surprised that no one is asking about the underlying issues of disagreement that led to the ballot in the first place:-
Staff's PTR&R arrangements, the challenge to local rostering, the arrangments for T3 possessions.
THESE were the matters of dissagreement between members and the employer - so why are they not being discussed now?

If these changes mattered a few weeks ago, surely discussion of these matters is even more pressing now?

I'm finding it quite depressing to read so much commentary about Union members and Bob Crow as a personality, and a virtual silence about these 3 issues that were so important that a ballot had to be held about a strike.

 

[Metroland]

I agree, I was an FOC in the old sogat print union,If Baroness Brenda Dean, had acted like Mr Crow in public, we would all have torn up our cards.
balloting a box closed 50 years ago says it all.

In fairness

The media treatment of RMT and Bob Crow over the last 48 hours over the Network Rail strike ballot has been the worst example of a concerted campaign of media bias against a trade union that we have seen since the 1980s miners' strike. John Humphrys's interview of Bob Crow, with his references to ballot-rigging, and the BBC's subsequent headline of "RMT's Bob Crow denies ballot rigging", was that disgusting classic of the old hack lawyer's tactic of asking the defendant: "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Even the Guardian's editorial (2 March) ignorantly weighed in with "No union that conducts its ballots properly according to the reasonable requirements of the law … would be in danger of being injuncted." This reference to "reasonable requirements of the law" is patent rubbish. To hold a ballot the union must construct and supply the employer with a detailed and complex matrix of information setting out which members it is balloting, their job titles, grades, departments and work locations. The employer is under no obligation to co-operate with the union to ensure this is accurate. If there is the slightest inaccuracy, even where it did not affect the result, the ballot is open to being challenged by the employer and quashed by the courts.

There can be no question of the union ballot-rigging or interfering in the balloting process because it is undertaken by an independent scrutineer, usually the Electoral Reform Society, and all ballot papers are sent by post to the homes of the members being balloted, and returned to the ERS for counting. The union at no time handles the ballot papers.

On at least four occasions in the last three years I have tried in parliament on behalf of RMT and other TUC-affiliated unions to amend employment law to require employers to co-operate with unions in the balloting process so these problems can be overcome. Employers' organisations, the Conservatives and the government have all opposed this reform.

The result is not fewer strikes but a deteriorating industrial relations climate as people become increasingly angry that their democratic wishes are frustrated by one-sided anti-trade-union laws.

John McDonnell MP

Lab, Hayes and Harlington

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/03/undermining-the-right-to-strike

 

[WatcherZero]

However its the Union which gives the ERS the names and addresses of members to be balloted.

 

[Hampshire Unit]

I presume the RMT will reballot on strike action - is there any early news on potential dates?

What is the minimum notice they must serve? 10 days?

I have a number of travel plans this month, some of which I have already booked, and it'd be useful to know asap so contigency plans can be made.

The law of the land requires seven days notice.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Mr. Crows response was pathetic, if I was in the RMT I would stop my subs and look elsewhere. However apparently there were I think a dozen or so signal boxes included that do not exist and some left out completely, this is a shambles by the RMT and to update their database will take quite a while, I still cannot see the connection between the signallers and the job losses (the reason for the strike). I think if there is another ballot it won't be this month.

Please don’t get dragged in by the media coverage. Yes the Database was out of date but it’s the same staff members who are still eligible to vote. The location of his work being wrong is irrelevant. Signallers change locations all the time as Network Rail create larger areas for boxes to control and anyone leaving the rail industry would have been removed simply due to the fact they would no longer be paying union fees.

As for the Reason ….. The Signallers main purpose is Safety and with the Network Rail proposals it is felt that Safety of both staff and the travelling public could not be guaranteed.

 

[TDK]

I am in the RMT and i would like for TDK to 1 explain why i should leave? and 2 if i do leave where do i go?

Apparntly and think do not represent FACT, so it might be a good idea to find out first before making wild accusations.

There are no accusations in my post, it is fact that signal boxes now closed were balloted, it is fact that some signal boxes were not included, this is down to the RMT not doing their homework and notupdating their database, one signal box has been closed for 10 years and was balloted, my response was regarding Bob Crows inerview and his response, not once did he mention the reasons why the signallers were balloted but he did mention the safety of the railway and to be honest he has no evidence that the railway is not as safe as it was 5 years ago, he mentioned accidents happening but it was not NR that had the blame but Jarvis ans other contractors and we now see what has happened to them, I am sorry but the man is trouble for all the RMT members and will drag your union into the pits, I agree, you have no alternative but you do have a right to vote on who you feel as a mamber who your general secretary should be.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The law of the land requires seven days notice.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


As for the Reason ….. The Signallers main purpose is Safety and with the Network Rail proposals it is felt that Safety of both staff and the travelling public could not be guaranteed.

So, what safety risk is there as the NR staff being made redundant are the extra staff taken on for the WCML upgrade, unfortunately NR did want to contract the work out but had to directly employ the workers. Now the WCML contract has finished these workers do not have work so are not needed. Now this is what I have read and have been told by an NR official whether this is 100% accurate I am not sure, if it is accurate and I belive it is it then shows that the union has fed false information to its members, if the track workers strike there is not a huge impact on the running of the railway, if the signallers strike then the railway comes to a stand, work it out for yourselves. I have noted the post above regarding T3, PT & R etc, surely this can be sorted out under negociation. PT & R, and t3 possesion,will these affect the travelling passengers safety as quoted by the unions?

 

[Maxfly]

There are no accusations in my post, it is fact that signal boxes now closed were balloted, it is fact that some signal boxes were not included, this is down to the RMT not doing their homework and notupdating their database, one signal box has been closed for 10 years and was balloted, my response was regarding Bob Crows inerview and his response, not once did he mention the reasons why the signallers were balloted but he did mention the safety of the railway and to be honest he has no evidence that the railway is not as safe as it was 5 years ago, he mentioned accidents happening but it was not NR that had the blame but Jarvis ans other contractors and we now see what has happened to them, I am sorry but the man is trouble for all the RMT members and will drag your union into the pits, I agree, you have no alternative but you do have a right to vote on who you feel as a mamber who your general secretary should be.

Yes but what you do not realise is that it is individuals that are balloted not the signal boxes!! What has to be know is how many at a location voted etc and if someone has not updated their details then it may come up as them working at a box that closed years ago

 

[TDK]

Yes but what you do not realise is that it is individuals that are balloted not the signal boxes!! What has to be know is how many at a location voted etc and if someone has not updated their details then it may come up as them working at a box that closed years ago

Yes I understand that, but how many were balloted that no longer work in those Signal Boxes or for NR. It shows up the whole balloting process and it needs to be either changed or monitored by the unions more efficiently, it was deemed by the courts as having discrepencies. Is there a list of reasons for the strikes? It's all OK the RMT mentioning safety but there are no accurate details on how safety is going to be breached, if we allknew this then maybe we could understand the rantings of Mr. Crow!

 

[merlodlliw]

In fairness


http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/03/undermining-the-right-to-strike

I note your comments, I should point out I was in news production not editorial.

I watched Bob Crow wnen he came out of court,what he said, thats all.

The ERS is an honourable organisation & totally independent,however it is the RMT that supplied the information, as a trade unionist I know many unions have not a clue who the members are or where

A few years ago subs were deducted out of pay, to stop this & make sure
the union did in fact get the subs. A elected boss of a union on a huge salary
does no favours to his members in 2010 using 1970s spin.

My opinion

 

[Metroland]

Bob Crow's main complaint was that some boxes had been retained merely as work places, for example as S&T or Pway stores.

To give a taste of the complexity here is a list of boxes and their codes: Although I agree for the money the union leaders are paying themselves, they ought to be able to sort this issue out.

http://deaves47.users.btopenworld.com/signal/signal_boxesa.htm

 

[Z12XE]

Mr. Crows response was pathetic

Indeed, the interview on BBC News 24 was brilliant - he didn't answer any questions

We dont get the Matrix, they can shut down the company but we dont see the matrix, its like painting the forth bridge once you've updated the databse they've shut down another company and we dont see the Matix. Its a insult to the trade union movement.

and so forth

 

[merlodlliw]

Bob Crow's main complaint was that some boxes had been retained merely as work places, for example as S&T or Pway stores.

To give a taste of the complexity here is a list of boxes and their codes: Although I agree for the money the union leaders are paying themselves, they ought to be able to sort this issue out.

http://deaves47.users.btopenworld.com/signal/signal_boxesa.htm

A very in depth complex map, indeed they do need to sort themselves out,but
the RMT should have known where its members work and have an up to date database, which for whatever reason was lacking and poor admin for its membership, never mind Bob Crow complaining, this cock up should have been foreseen after Unite was caught out. ignore attention to detail at your peril

M

 

[barrykas]

A very in depth complex map, indeed they do need to sort themselves out,but
the RMT should have known where its members work and have an up to date database, which for whatever reason was lacking and poor admin for its membership, never mind Bob Crow complaining, this cock up should have been foreseen after Unite was caught out. ignore attention to detail at your peril

It's up to individual members to tell their union if they change jobs/locations, not for the union to chase after them! Hence why the RMT send out a form once a year asking members to check their details, and have an option in the members area of the website to update them.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[jon0844]

Where do they send the forms? The same place as the ballot papers?

If some of these forms were being sent to the wrong places, presumably none of them came back? If they did, then there was some form of vote rigging.

If not, they simply need to tidy up the membership database and try again.

 

[Daniel]

They send the forms to the members' home address

It's up to individual members to tell their union if they change jobs/locations, not for the union to chase after them! Hence why the RMT send out a form once a year asking members to check their details, and have an option in the members area of the website to update them.

It's obviously difficult for union's to keep members' details up to date considering how quickly it changes, however they don't help themselves with certain things, for instance, they don't believe my job exists, no matter how many times I tell them.

 

[merlodlliw]

They send the forms to the members' home address





It's obviously difficult for union's to keep members' details up to date considering how quickly it changes, however they don't help themselves with certain things, for instance, they don't believe my job exists, no matter how many times I tell them.

Well if sections of the RMT decide to strike, the union had better have the correct backup, as you say, you tell them of your job, but the union ignores
you, in 2010 you need 2010 data, as for keeping up to date being difficult,
others don't have this problem. My union sends my ballot forms to my home
address via the ERS