Retford Low Level Station

[sheff'd victoria]

In a few weeks our rail group will have a meeting with East Coast Trains and the Retford community to discuss the way forward for Retford Low Level Station.

For anyone who does not know about this station it is a 1965 rebuild with a fly-under the East Coast Mainline, Pre 1965 it used to have a flat junction just like north of Newark.

We are trying to get a balanced view from anyone that has used either Retford Low Level or High Level so we have some data to take to the meeting.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

In a few weeks our rail group will have a meeting with East Coast Trains and the Retford community to discuss the way forward for Retford Low Level Station.

For anyone who does not know about this station it is a 1965 rebuild with a fly-under the East Coast Mainline, Pre 1965 it used to have a flat junction just like north of Newark.

We are trying to get a balanced view from anyone that has used either Retford Low Level or High Level so we have some data to take to the meeting.

What's the purpose of the meeting? Are there proposals to cut or amend the service? And what sort of view do you need to know; I've used the station and would be a
happy to offer some feedback if I know what you're looking for.

 

[Quickthorn]

I don't live in the area any more, but I often thought that it would be a good idea for Robin Hood line services to terminate at Retford rather than Worksop. This would give North Notts stations a faster connection to the ECML by eliminating the 40 minute wait at Worksop. Some services from Sheffield do already terminate and work back from Retford.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Ideal the train to Cleethorpes should run everyday and not just Saturdays as it would make the station more useful as an interchange for Gainsborough,Grimsby and Brigg.

 

[muddythefish]

The interchange between the two stations is poor - on wet days passengers get a real soaking. Infrastructure badly needs updating but that applies to most infrastructure across the north and Midlands.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

What's the purpose of the meeting? Are there proposals to cut or amend the service? And what sort of view do you need to know; I've used the station and would be a
happy to offer some feedback if I know what you're looking for.

We are meeting with East Coast to do an action plan for improvements and was wanting feedback of what customers would like to see at Retford Low Level Station, one suggestion is a covered walkway between High and Low stations.

 

[IanD]

I'd renumber the platforms from 1234 to 2143 (ie 1 and 2 swap and 3 and 4 swap) that way platform 1 would be next to platform 2, platform 2 next to platform 3 and platform 3 next to platform 4.

Also make it easier/quicker to get from the current platform 2 to 3 (or new 1 to 4) by perhaps having a minibus link. At least renumbering may give a better idea that it's a long way from platform 2 to 3 rather than implying they are next to each other!

 

[najaB]

Also make it easier/quicker to get from the current platform 2 to 3 (or new 1 to 4) by perhaps having a minibus link.

They aren't *that* far apart. A covered walkway is enough - I can't remember, is there a lift to both low-level platforms?

 

[IanD]

They aren't *that* far apart. A covered walkway is enough - I can't remember, is there a lift to both low-level platforms?

That was a joke, but if you're on the wrong end of a northbound train at platform 2, you have to walk the length of platform 2, down the steps, through the subway, up the steps, walk the length of platform 1 down the ramp towards platform 4 then up some steps, cross the bridge and then down steps to platform 3. I seem to recall a lift to platform 4 but not 3 (unless it's been added recently). Certainly took me almost all of the 10 minutes allowed for connection at that station and I'm not that unfit/infirm!

 

[High Dyke]

They aren't *that* far apart. A covered walkway is enough - I can't remember, is there a lift to both low-level platforms?

There's only a lift down to the Gainsborough / Lincoln bound platform. Access to the Worksop platform used to be a barrow crossing tucked up against the ECML overbridge, but i'm not sure about the current operational status of this facility.

I agree a covered walkway would probably be the most viable option. A mini-bus link between the different platforms would not be suitable. The low level platforms have no road access, and it would both be costly and extremely difficult to provide. An extension from the current station entrance would be impractical due, i believe, to the public subway that runs underneath the ECML just beyond the south end of the Up platform. By the time any passengers have boarded a shuttle bus and been driven round to the other side of the station - where another new road access would need to be provided - they could've walked most of the way between the two levels. There are lifts that link the two ECML platforms.

The low level platforms have always been the poor relation, from my days of going there spotting. Lack of facilities, a simple shelter on both sides. Yes the station could do with improvements, but they don't want to be too costly or unsightly.

 

[najaB]

That was a joke, but if you're on the wrong end of a northbound train at platform 2, you have to walk the length of platform 2, down the steps, through the subway, up the steps, walk the length of platform 1 down the ramp towards platform 4 then up some steps, cross the bridge and then down steps to platform 3. I seem to recall a lift to platform 4 but not 3 (unless it's been added recently). Certainly took me almost all of the 10 minutes allowed for connection at that station and I'm not that unfit/infirm!

Ah, okay. I don't think there is a lift to three, that's why I asked. A wider, covered (or even enclosed) walkway and lifts to both platforms is a minimum.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Ah, okay. I don't think there is a lift to three, that's why I asked. A wider, covered (or even enclosed) walkway and lifts to both platforms is a minimum.

We are told that there is only one lift on platform 3 at Retford Low Level and not platform 4 as when the station was built the Manchester - Cleethorpes newspaper trains used to use this platform only, platform 3's lift is the original goods lift that has been converted.

 

[swt_passenger]

We are meeting with East Coast to do an action plan for improvements and was wanting feedback of what customers would like to see at Retford Low Level Station, one suggestion is a covered walkway between High and Low stations.

Wouldn't the franchise consultation have been the time to do this? 'East Coast' are on the way out, and aren't going to be in a position to justify physical station improvements, it's normally something that might be specified by DfT in a franchise spec, but anything structurally significant is usually down to Network Rail in any case...

 

[Harpers Tate]

There's only a lift down to the Gainsborough / Lincoln bound platform. Access to the Worksop platform used to be a barrow crossing tucked up against the ECML overbridge, but i'm not sure about the current operational status of this facility.

Exactly as they were doing it with a wheelchair-bound passenger headed for Sheffield about three weeks ago.

 

[Yew]

I've got to agree that extending the Nottingham to worksop train to retford would be useful for ECML connectivity, especially as most Nottingham - Newark services stop at Newark castle, rather than north gate for the ECML.

 

[Class 170101]

Would it not be cheaper to reverse the crossover to the east of Retford Station to permit trains from Lincoln to use Platform 4 instead? (Similar setup to Hartlepool Station?)

 

[najaB]

Would it not be cheaper to reverse the crossover to the east of Retford Station to permit trains from Lincoln to use Platform 4 instead? (Similar setup to Hartlepool Station?)

A quick look at Real Time Trains shows quite a few movements that are timetabled to pass platform 3 within a few minutes of a stopping train on platform 4 and vice versa, so I guess that it would b*gger up the timetable too much.

 

[Mark62]

I remember taking football specials from Sheffield to London via Retford many years ago. Trains would link onto the ECML from the line at Retford lower level. These trains usually had at least 12 MK 1 coaches on and were hauled by a 47 or peak. Great fun when we got a clear run from Retford especially when the driver opened them up down Stoke Bank with their heavy trailing load. Much more fun than the football.

 

[ashworth]

I don't live in the area any more, but I often thought that it would be a good idea for Robin Hood line services to terminate at Retford rather than Worksop. This would give North Notts stations a faster connection to the ECML by eliminating the 40 minute wait at Worksop. Some services from Sheffield do already terminate and work back from Retford.

I do still live in the area and whilst a through train to Retford from the Robin Hood Line would be nice I think what most passengers from Mansfield and other Robin Hood Line stations would appreciate far more is eliminating the 40 minute wait at Worksop for a connection to Sheffield.

 

[Yew]

I do still live in the area and whilst a through train to Retford from the Robin Hood Line would be nice I think what most passengers from Mansfield and other Robin Hood Line stations would appreciate far more is eliminating the 40 minute wait at Worksop for a connection to Sheffield.

Good point, my friend who commuted that used to bus to chesterfield, then get the trasin from chesterfield to sheffield as it was much quicker due to the connection

 

[lancastrian]

I've got to agree that extending the Nottingham to worksop train to retford would be useful for ECML connectivity, especially as most Nottingham - Newark services stop at Newark castle, rather than north gate for the ECML.

The best way for this to happen would be for the Nottingham to Worksop trains should be extended to Retford platform 2 via the Thrumpton West Junctions. I have used this route a couple of times while travelling from Retford back to Bolton via Sheffield & Manchester.

A lot better way for people to interchange with the East Coast Main Line.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

The best way for this to happen would be for the Nottingham to Worksop trains should be extended to Retford platform 2 via the Thrumpton West Junctions. I have used this route a couple of times while travelling from Retford back to Bolton via Sheffield & Manchester.

A lot better way for people to interchange with the East Coast Main Line.

This suggestion has been brought up with EMT, however limited paths between Worksop and Retford means that any future services would be in the hands of the Sheffield - Cleethorpes via Brigg Line.

We did find out that EC did ask the Department for Transport for funding for some new lifts at Retford Low Level but were turned down due to a poor business case and low footfall at the station

Nottinghamshire County Council will now work with EC to provide a better business case for new lifts at Retford Low Level to replace the barrow crossing, as for the footfall, the feedback our rail group gets is people would use Retford as an interchange station more if the facilities were better, the issue of the 1965 waiting shelters and the bland state of Low Level was brought up by all parties that attended the meeting and an action plan just like the one for the Brigg Line will now be draw up for improvements for the short, medium and long term.

 

[ryan125hst]

This suggestion has been brought up with EMT, however limited paths between Worksop and Retford means that any future services would be in the hands of the Sheffield - Cleethorpes via Brigg Line.

Limited paths? I'm surprised by this as there is only one passenger train per hour and (I think) one freight train per hour between Worksop and Retford Monday-Friday outside the peaks. I can understand it being a bit more congested in the evening with the additional stopper as far as Retford, and on a Saturday it will be busier in an hour that a Sheffield-Cleethorpes train passes, but outside of those times, I would have thought there is plenty of room for another service or two. There appears to be plenty of signals between Retford and Worksop, so it's not signalling that is the issue.

Can you give more information on this?

 

[High Dyke]

Limited paths? I'm surprised by this as there is only one passenger train per hour and (I think) one freight train per hour between Worksop and Retford Monday-Friday outside the peaks....

It varies. Sometimes there are up to 5 freight paths per hour between the hourly passenger service, but not all of the services run - some may be similar paths from differing origin/destination locations.

 

[Starmill]

I've got to agree that extending the Nottingham to worksop train to retford would be useful for ECML connectivity, especially as most Nottingham - Newark services stop at Newark castle, rather than north gate for the ECML.

What would be even nicer would be if it could then continue to Gainsborough Central!

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I've used both the High Level and Low Level platforms at Retford, used them last year when coming back from Lincoln.

What did it for me was that I only had 10 minutes to make the next Hull Trains connection on platform 2 and it nearly took eight minutes to leg it from platform 4 to platform 2. Plus what is the reason behind the wrong way facing platform 2 as that should be corrected and have the fast line running through instead and the platform reversed to face platform 1 with a DDA accepted bridge from the footpath between the two levels and platform two thus cutting the need to walk nearly half a station in oder to cross the line.

 

[Class 170101]

Plus what is the reason behind the wrong way facing platform 2 as that should be corrected and have the fast line running through instead and the platform reversed to face platform 1 with a DDA accepted bridge from the footpath between the two levels and platform two thus cutting the need to walk nearly half a station in oder to cross the line.

Would that not mean the Down Main Line speed would have to be reduced as it would pass a platform face unlike now. Wasn't there some discussion regarding the new Platform 3 at Peterborough for the same reason?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Would that not mean the Down Main Line speed would have to be reduced as it would pass a platform face unlike now. Wasn't there some discussion regarding the new Platform 3 at Peterborough for the same reason?

Not so much, as the idea that I have would be to rebuild platform 2 to face platform 1 so that the down main would become the fast line, the old down fast would become the down slow. So in effect the station would be in a sort of overlapped loop, so for example on heading northbound the lines could run as down fast, platform 2 down slow, up fast, up slow platform 1.

Think of Dewsbury but with an addtional line running around the back of platform 2 and that is what my idea would be.

 

[Tomnick]

Other than a horrible (and therefore slow) alignment for Down Fast trains (and removing the ability for trains from Sheffield to access the down platform at the high level, and possibly losing the facility to regulate freight on that side of the station), I really don't know what that'd achieve - the platform structure would still be in the same place relative to the running lines, so how would that improve the access?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Other than a horrible (and therefore slow) alignment for Down Fast trains (and removing the ability for trains from Sheffield to access the down platform at the high level, and possibly losing the facility to regulate freight on that side of the station), I really don't know what that'd achieve - the platform structure would still be in the same place relative to the running lines, so how would that improve the access?

Forgot about the Sheffield access.

Well the idea that I had would be to bulid a bridge between the High and Low levels and connect that to platform two thus speeding it up for those interchanging between the two levels.

I and a few others once had to try and make a northbound connection last year at Retford and because of the length of time it takes to go from platform 4 to platform 2 via the subway which means depending on your health and fitness may take five minutes where as with others it may take ten.

Plus as mentioned, the station looks wrong as platform 2 appears to be another station next to Retford because of its wrong way facing layout. This is why I, as suggested above interloop the lines in order to 'correct' the layout.

The