Revised EMR Regional Timetables - From 19th June

[Mugby]

'If you were planning to travel on a service which is no longer scheduled to run, you may use your ticket on an alternative service'

What does this mean exactly? Other operators services? Ticket acceptance arranged?
How about Crewe/Stoke - Derby, given that EMR have cut the service by half, would travel via Tamworth be permissible?

 

[Killingworth]

It was only a few months ago Liverpool-Norwich services fairly frequently included 153s. I wasn't impressed regarding leg room or the tired seating but they got us there.

We've a habit of being over optimistic about new stock delivery dates and subsequent cascades. Most users aren't over bothered if they're in a 30 or 35 year old train - it's just old and they've been using them fairly happily for years. What's another 12-18 months?

156/158 pairings on Thursday.

 

[DDB]

'If you were planning to travel on a service which is no longer scheduled to run, you may use your ticket on an alternative service'

What does this mean exactly? Other operators services? Ticket acceptance arranged?
How about Crewe/Stoke - Derby, given that EMR have cut the service by half, would travel via Tamworth be permissible?

It isn't much help if there aren't any alternative services.

 

[ChrisC]

I suspect Nottingham Trams are doing quite well with the extra custom with people ditching the railways and driving to the P&R sites (Hucknall etc)

I would have thought that too but it doesn’t seem to be happening. Pre covid the car park at Hucknall used to be completely full and overflowing by about 0830. I always found it very inconvenient if I wanted to get a train at about 0930 as I had to park some distance away at a local leisure centre. Currently every time I have driven past in recent weeks Hucknall station car park has been no more than 25% full.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The timing couldn't be worse as we try to get people back on the railways. Is this bad luck or a massive balls up?

 

[Watershed]

"We are almost completely withdrawing your train service without replacement due to a mess we've gotten into, sorry"

Doesn't really cut it when it comes to retaining custom just when things are starting to open up.

Obviously some degree of replacement service should be provided, even if that's just "we'll ring a taxi if you have a ticket to/from Spondon".

 

[trentvalley]

Obviously some degree of replacement service should be provided, even if that's just "we'll ring a taxi if you have a ticket to/from Spondon".

Or could do what has been done with the Perry Barr closure (different circumstances but still) and gain acceptance on local buses for tickets marked Spondon.

 

[STINT47]

Or could do what has been done with the Perry Barr closure (different circumstances but still) and gain acceptance on local buses for tickets marked Spondon.

Exactly. Trent Barton run a frequent bus service past Spondon station (well just up the road) to Derby. It's not ideal but better than being told to sort yourself out as we messed up the new timetable.

 

[Starmill]

Seems utterly mad not to organise replacement buses for things like Spondon where there's no alternative trains running. Even Northern were shamed into running a bus to Roze Hill Marple.

 

[WesternLancer]

The more I think about it the more of a debacle this seems. I am guessing it is only because lots of 'key decision makers' aka well paid people who make a lot of noise, are still working from home / not using trains / never used local trains? that there has not been a bigger fuss about all this.

Was this really not possible to predict before starting the new timetable on May 16th only to see it collapse almost immediately?

 

[Mugby]

The new timetable which started on May 16th wasn't exactly a big bang, apart from a few extra journeys here and there it was nothing more than a return to pre-Covid service levels.

How is it that of all the operators which introduced new timetables last month, EMR have gotten themselves into the biggest mess?

 

[Watershed]

The new timetable which started on May 16th wasn't exactly a big bang, apart from a few extra journeys here and there it was nothing more than a return to pre-Covid service levels.

How is it that of all the operators which introduced new timetables last month, EMR have gotten themselves into the biggest mess?

It represented a notable increase in service on several lines. EMR have gotten into the biggest mess because they unfortunately have tried to run a service greater than pre-Covid levels without being in the right position - either in terms of traincrew or units - to do so.

I still give them full marks for trying.

 

[js1000]

Don't use EMR trains but looking at some of the changes this is diabolical. Really poor.

It is too much to hope that other operators may be able to step in and 'cover' stations which will lose EMR services? Northern Trains are doing very well both in terms of punctuality and rolling stock. For instance Widnes loses its express call with as 17:39 from Piccadilly to Liverpool will be no more, although the 18:08 Northern service from Manchester Airport to Liverpool could fill this void.

 

[raetiamann]

We are told ministers are questioning why traveller numbers are not recovering quicker to pre-CoVid levels. Well maybe take a look at the EMT mayhem. DfT needs look closely at this. Mismanagement at best

 

[43055]

Exactly. Trent Barton run a frequent bus service past Spondon station (well just up the road) to Derby. It's not ideal but better than being told to sort yourself out as we messed up the new timetable.

Also buses to Long Eaton, Beeston and Nottingham as well. I'm sure trentbarton will be pleased to know that my normal train home will not be running.

The Robin Hood also has a bit of a odd calling pattern at Newstead which all services call towards Nottingham but only call in the peaks and evening towards Worksop. Also similar situation on the local stations between Nottingham and Newark which get no calls towards Newark for most of the day.

 

[A0wen]

We are told ministers are questioning why traveller numbers are not recovering quicker to pre-CoVid levels. Well maybe take a look at the EMT mayhem. DfT needs look closely at this. Mismanagement at best

Many of the EMR services reduced though aren't well used commuter services. Certainly not of the kind which are being talked about by ministers.

Bald Rick posted a comment on another thread, which I'm sure he won't mind me quoting:

" I see the national numbers every day. And it’s not pretty.

Of course some trains / lines are busy. But many are not, especially the ones that bring in the cash. No longer are there 16 Thameslink trains per morning peak hour on the MML depositing 1,000-1,800 people into Central London, mostly with season tickets at an average of £4K pa. There’s 12 dropping off about 300 people each. As they say in the US “do the math”. Similar for outer suburban commuting on the SWML, Brighton Line, GEML and many other commuter routes."

Rail Industry Recovery Group

Judging by the last couple of weeks the passenger numbers are returning to near pre covid levels! Nowhere near! And revenue is, as always through the pandemic, somewhat further behind.

railforums.co.uk

Frankly EMR cancelling a few provincial services is a drop in the ocean - the problem is the commuting into London and a lesser extent the West Mids and North West is where the big drop is and it hasn't, as yet, recovered. And that's leaving a pretty big revenue gap.

 

[WesternLancer]

Many of the EMR services reduced though aren't well used commuter services. Certainly not of the kind which are being talked about by ministers.

Bald Rick posted a comment on another thread, which I'm sure he won't mind me quoting:

" I see the national numbers every day. And it’s not pretty.

Of course some trains / lines are busy. But many are not, especially the ones that bring in the cash. No longer are there 16 Thameslink trains per morning peak hour on the MML depositing 1,000-1,800 people into Central London, mostly with season tickets at an average of £4K pa. There’s 12 dropping off about 300 people each. As they say in the US “do the math”. Similar for outer suburban commuting on the SWML, Brighton Line, GEML and many other commuter routes."

Rail Industry Recovery Group

Judging by the last couple of weeks the passenger numbers are returning to near pre covid levels! Nowhere near! And revenue is, as always through the pandemic, somewhat further behind.

railforums.co.uk

Frankly EMR cancelling a few provincial services is a drop in the ocean - the problem is the commuting into London and a lesser extent the West Mids and North West is where the big drop is and it hasn't, as yet, recovered. And that's leaving a pretty big revenue gap.

Good points - for me this isn't about the revenue - it's about a service promise. If the revenue was the driver the whole thing could and should have been re-thought well before the date of the timetable change. And it's been obvious for months that commuter numbers will not or may not ever come back so a timetable plan should work for that with a focus on the commuters who do need the trains and a decent service pattern.

 

[howittpie]

Shambles is all I will say. Beeston is having 54 trains a day cancelled. The local Facebook group are shall we say less than impressed which include a number of regular travellors who are wondering how they will now get to work.

 

[DDB]

Shambles is all I will say. Beeston is having 54 trains a day cancelled. The local Facebook group are shall we say less than impressed which include a number of regular travellors who are wondering how they will now get to work.

Many of the EMR services reduced though aren't well used commuter services. Certainly not of the kind which are being talked about by ministers.

Bald Rick posted a comment on another thread, which I'm sure he won't mind me quoting:

" I see the national numbers every day. And it’s not pretty.

Of course some trains / lines are busy. But many are not, especially the ones that bring in the cash. No longer are there 16 Thameslink trains per morning peak hour on the MML depositing 1,000-1,800 people into Central London, mostly with season tickets at an average of £4K pa. There’s 12 dropping off about 300 people each. As they say in the US “do the math”. Similar for outer suburban commuting on the SWML, Brighton Line, GEML and many other commuter routes."

Rail Industry Recovery Group

Judging by the last couple of weeks the passenger numbers are returning to near pre covid levels! Nowhere near! And revenue is, as always through the pandemic, somewhat further behind.

railforums.co.uk

Frankly EMR cancelling a few provincial services is a drop in the ocean - the problem is the commuting into London and a lesser extent the West Mids and North West is where the big drop is and it hasn't, as yet, recovered. And that's leaving a pretty big revenue gap.

The only people using Spondon are commuters. Pre the May timetable change it only had stops at commuter times. I'm designated a key worker by the government. Now there in one service from Nottingham to Spondon a day (by cross-country). The FIRST service of the day in the return direction is after 10PM.

 

[morgainelive]

Looks like carnage to me - only Skeggy and Cleethorpes-Barton seems to escape relatively unscathed as well as the Intercity and Electrics. EMR should be ashamed of the cutbacks it is making each weekday:

• Twelve Robin Hood line trips binned
• Six Nottingham-Crewe round trips gone
• Five trips out into Lincolnshire cancelled
• Nine Newark-Lincoln services each way non-op
• Nottingham-Matlock truncated to Derby-Matlock (so actually big cutbacks by EMR between NOT and DBY given some NOT-CRE are going too)
• Five Liverpool not happening along with four Norwich

This actually seems worse than the temporary covid-timetable.

Oh dear reverse back 10 or so years and it's the same dmu crowding/ shortform issues EMT had , and yes i understand it's not just unit shortages but crew issues too, the 153 would have been useful to at least bolster the 158s as i've heard so many Liv-norwich are 2 cars now and with customers at Stockport struggling to board why is it every time ew tts happen stock shortages happen poor planning? it's a poor show post covid isn't it?

 

[A0wen]

The only people using Spondon are commuters. Pre the May timetable change it only had stops at commuter times. I'm designated a key worker by the government. Now there in one service from Nottingham to Spondon a day (by cross-country). The FIRST service of the day in the return direction is after 10PM.

For the benefit of those who don't know the area, Spondon is a suburb of Derby and Spondon station is ~3 miles from Derby station. It's not like an area devoid of other transport options has been cut off.

 

[Andy Pacer]

For the benefit of those who don't know the area, Spondon is a suburb of Derby and Spondon station is ~3 miles from Derby station. It's not like an area devoid of other transport options has been cut off.

But not everyone goes to Derby on the train.

 

[A0wen]

But not everyone goes to Derby on the train.

But if you get to Derby the distance to Spondon isn't far. So providing anyone travelling to Spondon from the east has an easement to allow them to get to Derby, then the inconvenience has been mitigated.

EMR will have assessed station usage before making these changes. Spondon had a usage, pre Covid, of less than 100 a day - that's a lightly used station.

 

[Andy Pacer]

But if you get to Derby the distance to Spondon isn't far. So providing anyone travelling to Spondon from the east has an easement to allow them to get to Derby, then the inconvenience has been mitigated.

EMR will have assessed station usage before making these changes. Spondon had a usage, pre Covid, of less than 100 a day - that's a lightly used station.

Good point. But "Joe Public" will think, my train has been taken off, I'll make other arrangements. I can't see many getting themselves to Derby station for the train to Nottingham or Birmingham, for example, or less still occasional travellers on a day out to Matlock.

 

[bunnahabhain]

For the benefit of those who don't know the area, Spondon is a suburb of Derby and Spondon station is ~3 miles from Derby station. It's not like an area devoid of other transport options has been cut off.

The customer base of that station almost exclusively travel to/from the East or through beyond Derby to the Matlock branch or Burton-upon-Trent, Tamworth and Birmingham. Whilst connections are possible travelling via Derby and paying for a separate bus ticket, that won't accommodate the regular cyclists, nor the people who have time sensitive commitments who won't have the time to travel via Derby and a 20 minute bus ride, plus walking time between the bus and railway stations.

 

[Andy Pacer]

The customer base of that station almost exclusively travel to/from the East or through beyond Derby to the Matlock branch or Burton-upon-Trent, Tamworth and Birmingham. Whilst connections are possible travelling via Derby and paying for a separate bus ticket, that won't accommodate the regular cyclists, nor the people who have time sensitive commitments who won't have the time to travel via Derby and a 20 minute bus ride, plus walking time between the bus and railway stations.

Exactly my point. Many people don't consider integrating forms of transport (e.g. bus then train) even though it is fairly sensible in many cases.
Also in this case the walk from Derby Bus Stn to the Railway station would put many off, plus the time it takes.

 

[A0wen]

The customer base of that station almost exclusively travel to/from the East or through beyond Derby to the Matlock branch or Burton-upon-Trent, Tamworth and Birmingham. Whilst connections are possible travelling via Derby and paying for a separate bus ticket, that won't accommodate the regular cyclists, nor the people who have time sensitive commitments who won't have the time to travel via Derby and a 20 minute bus ride, plus walking time between the bus and railway stations.

So once again we're worrying about the <5% i.e those with a bike or "time sensitive commitments" (whatever that's supposed to mean) rather than ensuring a generally reliable service for the vast majority.

Sorry - public transport can't and shouldn't accomodate every possible demand. If it works for 9/10 that's more than good enough. And a station with fewer than 100 users a day is a minor station, particularly in a built up area with other options close by.

 

[WesternLancer]

So once again we're worrying about the <5% i.e those with a bike or "time sensitive commitments" (whatever that's supposed to mean) rather than ensuring a generally reliable service for the vast majority.

Sorry - public transport can't and shouldn't accomodate every possible demand. If it works for 9/10 that's more than good enough. And a station with fewer than 100 users a day is a minor station, particularly in a built up area with other options close by.

worth mentioning that of course it had fewer than 100 users as it has had a v poor service for many years. A more frequent service as was offered had the chance to boost untapped potential, tho that is one for the future. But it sounds like the few people who had a service that they used at times they worked with, have now lost that, so we have a service worse than pre covid?

 

[Mugby]

It represented a notable increase in service on several lines. EMR have gotten into the biggest mess because they unfortunately have tried to run a service greater than pre-Covid levels without being in the right position - either in terms of traincrew or units - to do so.

I still give them full marks for trying.

Really?

Which lines have had a notable increase in service?

 

[MCR247]

Really?

Which lines have had a notable increase in service?

Nottingham - Derby with the local service doubled to 2tph with the Crewe - Newark service