Revised EMR Regional Timetables - From 19th June

[derbybusdepot]

What a mess. I live in Spondon, so I am biased, but was glad to see an improved service here. The area near the station is being developed into a huge food science park, that being the main reason that more trains were calling there. I can fully understand why people are annoyed that the service has not just reverted to the previous reduced level, but has almost been taken off completely - especially if rely on it for work. They may only be a small percentage of customers that use Spondon, but they may not return when EMR decide they can operate trains to a timetable.

I can also see the other side, something has to be cut to enable them to provide a reliable service overall, to eradicate/alleviate short notice cancellations. However, on Friday evening, they were still not sure if, or which cross country services would be calling at Spondon on Monday. If a service is being cut to that degree, in my opinion they should at least point people in the right direction of an alternative travel option.

Looking on the EMR website, from next Saturday, you can book all journeys from Spondon again - suggesting everything will be fixed by then. From what I have read on here, that seems to be far from true, so aren't they just digging a hole for themselves selling tickets for trains that are unlikely to operate?

 

[bunnahabhain]

So once again we're worrying about the <5% i.e those with a bike or "time sensitive commitments" (whatever that's supposed to mean) rather than ensuring a generally reliable service for the vast majority.

Sorry - public transport can't and shouldn't accomodate every possible demand. If it works for 9/10 that's more than good enough. And a station with fewer than 100 users a day is a minor station, particularly in a built up area with other options close by.

The low figures are due to the historical service providing less than a dozen services total, of those that did call the 064x usually had three boarding and two alighting and the 074x would have five to seven alighting and three to four boarding. The station was usually busier than Attenborough and many on the Matlock branch at that time.

 

[43055]

Really?

Which lines have had a notable increase in service?

Crewe - Derby extended to Nottingham and Newark giving an extra service between Derby and Nottingham.
Lincoln - Peterborough is now more or less hourly
Lincoln - Grimsby 2 hourly and links with the Leicester service rather than Newark north gate shuttle.

 

[DDB]

At the height of the COVID reductions they still stopped at leat one train in each direction at commuter times. In that time when there might be only be 10 people on the train in total 2 or 3 of them would be for Spondon.
It was needed for key workers. It still is needed.

This time they announced on Thursday that there would be no commuter time trains from Monday and no replacement. Also this time round there is another EMR service that is still running that could pick up the missing stops i.e. the Crewe to Newark. Guards I've spoken to on the route have told me that they have been suggesting to their bosses they should stop those at Spondon.

If you have to cut services as has happened throughout the pandemic you don't cut services to remove all service from a station. E.g. you cut the fast services if you have fast and slow services so every station still has a service. For lines with a single service you cut out 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 services so there still is some service. This hasn't happened here.

 

[derbybusdepot]

Cross Country are stepping in to fill in some of the gaps at Spondon.

 

[swissrailpassion]

It's the Abellio effect.

 

[martinsh]

They can't run a railway to save their lives, can they ?

And I bet I won't be possible to socially distance on the remaining services ...

 

[Sand_elf]

So Beeston has just lost its Derby-Belper-Matlock train. What a complete shambles. Time for the regulator to step in and give the franchise to someone else?

 

[Tomnick]

So Beeston has just lost its Derby-Belper-Matlock train. What a complete shambles. Time for the regulator to step in and give the franchise to someone else?

Probably the worst thing you could do at the moment. Any other company would face exactly the same shortages of drivers, guards and units. Shaking things up will just disrupt what's a pretty comprehensive plan for getting things back to where they need to be.

 

[daodao]

The cuts are arbitrary and ill thought out. They will destroy the market for rail travel on the affected routes even if/when services can be restored. An hourly all stations stopping service should have been retained on the affected routes (including Crewe-Stoke-Derby-Nottingham-Newark-Lincoln), with other trains removed if they have not currently got the resources to run them.

 

[DDB]

Cross Country are stepping in to fill in some of the gaps at Spondon.

That's what I keep hearing but where can I find out the times?

 

[Ianno87]

The cuts are arbitrary and ill thought out.

Even if they look arbitrary to the untrained eye, they are no doubt determined by the available resources and making most efficient use of them.

I'd personally rather services were retained on the busiest routes, services station, not deciding every station should be treated equally (which would be arbitrary)

 

[DDB]

Even if they look arbitrary to the untrained eye, they are no doubt determined by the available resources and making most efficient use of them.

I'd personally rather services were retained on the busiest routes, services station, not deciding every station should be treated equally (which would be arbitrary)

I would rather services at some level were retained on at least some level (i.e. every 2 hours) rather than abolished completly for some routes. The cuts don't have to be equal but they shouldn't leave anywhere with no service.

 

[Watershed]

The cuts are arbitrary and ill thought out. They will destroy the market for rail travel on the affected routes even if/when services can be restored. An hourly all stations stopping service should have been retained on the affected routes (including Crewe-Stoke-Derby-Nottingham-Newark-Lincoln), with other trains removed if they have not currently got the resources to run them.

Ah yes, they have just taken a pen and decided "we'll scrap that line and that line"

The cuts will have been carefully considered to maximise the saving in traincrew, so as to maximise the opportunity for training and thereby minimise the length the cuts need to go on for.

What other trains could EMR remove? I'm sure they would welcome your answers on a postcard.

Their main faux pas, as far as I can tell, is not ensuring alternative arrangements are in place for these station, viz. ticket acceptance, taxis or additional stops on other services.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Their main faux pas, as far as I can tell, is not ensuring alternative arrangements are in place for these station, viz. ticket acceptance, taxis or additional stops on other services.

Such as the 'customer service' I received at Nottingham station on Bank Holiday Saturday (when there were widespread cancellations due to lack of drivers) being told they can't get me to where I need to be and there are no buses or taxis "because there would never be enough". I even challenged the woman to confirm she is saying I'm stranded, to which she agreed!

 

[tommy2215]

As well as the additional XC calls, a small few Crewe-Newark trains have been altered to stop at Spondon. And there are some Derby-Spondon rail replacement buses. So at least EMR are doing something now.

 

[DDB]

As well as the additional XC calls, a small few Crewe-Newark trains have been altered to stop at Spondon. And there are some Derby-Spondon rail replacement buses. So at least EMR are doing something now.

Which Crewe-Newark trains? When are the extra XC calls? Can you point me to this information please.

 

[43055]

Which Crewe-Newark trains? When are the extra XC calls? Can you point me to this information please.

They are in Real Time Trains and seem to be showing on National Rail for today.

Today. XC look to be in AM and PM 'peaks' with the Crewe services stopping every few hours. There is also a bus as well which was run by Notts and Derby early this morning. Cross Country journey check is showing the 1932 from Nottingham and 2259 from Derby having additional calls today.
Realtime Trains - Departures from Spondon

Monday. No Crewe services showing but a bus to Derby which is hourly in the peaks and 2 hourly off peak. Cross Country also showing some services in the morning and evenings.
Realtime Trains - Departures from Spondon

 

[Qwerty133]

Ah yes, they have just taken a pen and decided "we'll scrap that line and that line"

The cuts will have been carefully considered to maximise the saving in traincrew, so as to maximise the opportunity for training and thereby minimise the length the cuts need to go on for.

What other trains could EMR remove? I'm sure they would welcome your answers on a postcard.

Their main faux pas, as far as I can tell, is not ensuring alternative arrangements are in place for these station, viz. ticket acceptance, taxis or additional stops on other services.

For a start they could remove all services West of Sheffield (or even Nottingham) on the Liverpool to Norwich route as this is heavily duplicated by other operators. They could also look at cutting the remaining Crewe services back to Nottingham rather than retaining the current service to Newark (which would add in more than enough time to add calls at Spondon).

 

[splashoutradio]

The low figures are due to the historical service providing less than a dozen services total, of those that did call the 064x usually had three boarding and two alighting and the 074x would have five to seven alighting and three to four boarding. The station was usually busier than Attenborough and many on the Matlock branch at that time.

Looking at the 2019/20 figures for Spondon (the last month of which was affected by Covid), there was 20,908 entries & exits over the year, and 118 scheduled services per week (20 Mon-Fri, 18 Sat). That's an average of 3.41 passengers per service - much higher than I was expecting, given the uneven and sporadic nature of the timetable back then.

 

[Scott1]

Looking at the 2019/20 figures for Spondon (the last month of which was affected by Covid), there was 20,908 entries & exits over the year, and 118 scheduled services per week (20 Mon-Fri, 18 Sat). That's an average of 3.41 passengers per service - much higher than I was expecting, given the uneven and sporadic nature of the timetable back then.

A suspicious person may wonder if that has something to do with it being a very cheap ticket that will get you through the gates at Derby Station...

 

[edwin_m]

The customer base of that station almost exclusively travel to/from the East or through beyond Derby to the Matlock branch or Burton-upon-Trent, Tamworth and Birmingham. Whilst connections are possible travelling via Derby and paying for a separate bus ticket, that won't accommodate the regular cyclists, nor the people who have time sensitive commitments who won't have the time to travel via Derby and a 20 minute bus ride, plus walking time between the bus and railway stations.

It's only a couple of miles to Derby station, and if I remember rightly an off-route cycle path is available for most of that distance. I can't imagine anyone who brings a cycle with them would have any difficulty in using it to travel that distance, and I would guess most of them do so already.

 

[DDB]

Ah yes, they have just taken a pen and decided "we'll scrap that line and that line"

The cuts will have been carefully considered to maximise the saving in traincrew, so as to maximise the opportunity for training and thereby minimise the length the cuts need to go on for.

What other trains could EMR remove? I'm sure they would welcome your answers on a postcard.

Their main faux pas, as far as I can tell, is not ensuring alternative arrangements are in place for these station, viz. ticket acceptance, taxis or additional stops on other services.

The answer on a postcard from me and thier own staff is that the missing stops are put into the service that is still running. I am sure they had good reasons for which half of the Derby-Nottingham services they cut, probably based on where they go before and afterwards but they should have transfered the stops into the service that is still running.

A suspicious person may wonder if that has something to do with it being a very cheap ticket that will get you through the gates at Derby Station...

I think that is unlikely given how easily it could be detected given there were very, very, few services a day on which a passenger could actually have come from Spondon.

Looking at the 2019/20 figures for Spondon (the last month of which was affected by Covid), there was 20,908 entries & exits over the year, and 118 scheduled services per week (20 Mon-Fri, 18 Sat). That's an average of 3.41 passengers per service - much higher than I was expecting, given the uneven and sporadic nature of the timetable back then.

As someone who uses the service I think the number is slightly higher for the "real" services. I think your quick analysis is distorted by the after 10pm XC services which I can't belive anyone actually every used and I assume must be put in to meet a franchise obligation of n services a day.

During the height of the pandemic drop-off it was actually getting similar numbers on the services that actually stopped there to the other intermediate stops as its numbers were holding while others dropped. No one travels to Spondon for pleasure it will all be commuters.

 

[Class 170101]

Many of the EMR services reduced though aren't well used commuter services. Certainly not of the kind which are being talked about by ministers.

Bald Rick posted a comment on another thread, which I'm sure he won't mind me quoting:

" I see the national numbers every day. And it’s not pretty.

Of course some trains / lines are busy. But many are not, especially the ones that bring in the cash. No longer are there 16 Thameslink trains per morning peak hour on the MML depositing 1,000-1,800 people into Central London, mostly with season tickets at an average of £4K pa. There’s 12 dropping off about 300 people each. As they say in the US “do the math”. Similar for outer suburban commuting on the SWML, Brighton Line, GEML and many other commuter routes."

Rail Industry Recovery Group

Judging by the last couple of weeks the passenger numbers are returning to near pre covid levels! Nowhere near! And revenue is, as always through the pandemic, somewhat further behind.

railforums.co.uk

Frankly EMR cancelling a few provincial services is a drop in the ocean - the problem is the commuting into London and a lesser extent the West Mids and North West is where the big drop is and it hasn't, as yet, recovered. And that's leaving a pretty big revenue gap.

A Lockdown ending of June 21st would be unlikely to see mass returning to workplaces. Now it July 19th I expect that to be even less likely, with the school summer holidays beginning later that week.

Monday 6 September before anything starts moving on that front I reckon and that assumes no more setbacks...

 

[DDB]

A Lockdown ending of June 21st would be unlikely to see mass returning to workplaces. Now it July 19th I expect that to be even less likely, with the school summer holidays beginning later that week.

Monday 6 September before anything starts moving on that front I reckon and that assumes no more setbacks...

Those of us using Spondon have never left the workplace, as we can't work from home so we are quite concerned to discover on Thursday we wouldn't have a service from Monday.

 

[Mugby]

Crewe - Derby extended to Nottingham and Newark giving an extra service between Derby and Nottingham.
Lincoln - Peterborough is now more or less hourly
Lincoln - Grimsby 2 hourly and links with the Leicester service rather than Newark north gate shuttle.

Something just doesn't stack up here. Ok, problems have been encountered so cancel the May service enhancements and just go back to the pre-Covid timetables but no, most services have been chopped by 50%.

BBC East Midlands News did a report on Friday and EMR's excuses were: Covid - sorry but that won't wash anymore - also, 'Late delivery of new trains'
Er...What new trains would they be for EMR Regional?

Absolute tripe but they know an unsuspecting public will swallow it!

 

[Chriso]

It's the Abellio effect.

Haha another shambolic timetable introduction just like there London North Western disaster. Incredible how they get it so wrong. To promote the new timetable knowing that they had no chance of introducing it just saids everything.

 

[Class 170101]

Haha another shambolic timetable introduction just like there London North Western disaster. Incredible how they get it so wrong. To promote the new timetable knowing that they had no chance of introducing it just saids everything.

Did it assume that guards (and drivers) would do training of Class 170s and that others would cover their colleagues on overtime? Of course the guards are in dispute so no overtime but it undermines the whole plan?

 

[STINT47]

We need some MPs, councillors and mayors kicking up a fuss about this but sadly this doesn't seem to happen in the East Midlands.

It does appear that there is more going off than EMR are telling us. The new timetable is worse than anything during the lockdowns. Why could the service not revert back to that? Instead we have deeper cuts when usage was starting to go up.

Going forwards I don't think Abellio should be allowed anywhere near another train company without serious questions being asked. They seem to have a history of making the same errors

 

[derbybusdepot]

It appears now that some XC services will stop at Spondon during peak hours. These are not yet shown on journey planners/booking system though!

Notts and Derby are running a rail replacement bus Derby to Spondon, which from what I can see connects with the Matlock service.

Also seems can still book onto services that won't exist from Saturday onwards.

None of this information seems to be collaborated though, which is a major flaw. No wonder people don't use trains.