Revised EMR Regional Timetables - From 19th June

[bunnahabhain]

It's actually quite simple, when the running times were changed to 170 back in May it resulted in a small reduction in running time. Unfortunately this reduction isn't achievable, so therefore trains end up late. The structure of the timetable means that delays, even with the reduced timetable, can snowball. Trains pass just south of Bulwell South Junction and because of the additional stop in each direction (normally on the Mansfield train) the turnaround at Worksop is short. Therefore once a train ends up late going out it will come back late and delay a train going towards Worksop a couple hours later. Of course because of the unachievable running times now, a late train will loose further time. The reduction for an all stopping train is 4 minutes (2.5 out and 1.5 back) per return trip to Worksop, the reduction is all South of Mansfield and over 50% is on the single line section.

"But 170s are faster" is a phrase I've learned to hate.

 

[LowLevel]

Is there any sign of it getting any better? The cancellations were announced as being to allow training and that there would be regular reviews. Is there any sign of changes and/or the training backlog being addressed?

Plenty of drivers out with instructors at the moment but the turnaround time to get them properly productive is very lengthy so it'll be a while yet, meanwhile more have left/retired.

Meanwhile there is still the willy waving going on from both sides in the guards dispute so who knows *shrug*

 

[High Dyke]

Is there any sign of it getting any better? The cancellations were announced as being to allow training and that there would be regular reviews. Is there any sign of changes and/or the training backlog being addressed?

Seemingly not, judging by services today on some regional routes. Alright the industrial action taking place isn't helping provide a service, but then again a number of 'contingency train managers' have seemingly become unavailable today as well. And that's without sufficient drivers on duty.

 

[louis97]

"But 170s are faster" is a phrase I've learned to hate.

Couldn't agree more!

 

[Killingworth]

2 car 156 on 11.44 Sheffield - Grantham today. Liverpool - Sheffield section not running due to RMT dispute.

 

[Jamesrob637]

2 car 156 on 11.44 Sheffield - Grantham today. Liverpool - Sheffield section not running due to RMT dispute.
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Just don't trust trains outside of London (and many within London) on Sundays full stop at the moment.

 

[Killingworth]

Just don't trains outside of London (and many within London) on Sundays full stop at the moment.

2 car 156 on 11.44 Sheffield - Grantham today. Liverpool - Sheffield section not running due to RMT dispute.
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Didn't mention the Grantham - Norwich section was also missing today

 

[Skymonster]

So now the truth is out... Behold the forthcoming answer to all the problems on the Robin Hood Line seen on test elsewhere yesterday…

 

[LowLevel]

So now the truth is out... Behold the forthcoming answer to all the problems on the Robin Hood Line seen on test elsewhere yesterday…

View attachment 102842View attachment 102843

Don't bring that in to my Manor- hopefully it'll be nicely alight before long

 

[ChrisC]

It's actually quite simple, when the running times were changed to 170 back in May it resulted in a small reduction in running time. Unfortunately this reduction isn't achievable, so therefore trains end up late. The structure of the timetable means that delays, even with the reduced timetable, can snowball. Trains pass just south of Bulwell South Junction and because of the additional stop in each direction (normally on the Mansfield train) the turnaround at Worksop is short. Therefore once a train ends up late going out it will come back late and delay a train going towards Worksop a couple hours later. Of course because of the unachievable running times now, a late train will loose further time. The reduction for an all stopping train is 4 minutes (2.5 out and 1.5 back) per return trip to Worksop, the reduction is all South of Mansfield and over 50% is on the single line section.

The easy way out of this, even with 170’s, would be to admit they have got it wrong and to restore the old timetable that has operated successfully for the past 20+ years. This could be done quite quickly and certainly by December. I don’t suppose this will happen and I suspect it will be some time yet, if ever, that the half hourly service south of Mansfield will be restored.

 

[43055]

I suspect the bus company is loving the rail industry at the moment, especially as I assume the bus goes from city centre to city centre meaning the extra time penalty of using the bus is regained by having better locations.

Yes the Red Arrow coach goes from city centre to city centre and only stops at 2 intermediate stops.

 

[ashworth]

Yes the Red Arrow coach goes from city centre to city centre and only stops at 2 intermediate stops.

Probably the same with Stagecoach Pronto bus between Mansfield and Nottingham. It takes longer than the train at 45 minutes but runs every 10 minutes during the day and every 30 minutes on Sundays. Does anyone actually use the rail replacement buses that have been running most of the today and are timed to take at least 90 minutes between Mansfield and Nottingham.

 

[dk1]

Didn't mention the Grantham - Norwich section was also missing today

Been going on for several weeks now with engineering work Peterborough to Ely. RR buses direct to both Ely & Norwich. GA been operating normally on the Stansted-Norwich route so hourly trains East of Ely.

 

[43055]

Probably the same with Stagecoach Pronto bus between Mansfield and Nottingham. It takes longer than the train at 45 minutes but runs every 10 minutes during the day and every 30 minutes on Sundays. Does anyone actually use the rail replacement buses that have been running most of the today and are timed to take at least 90 minutes between Mansfield and Nottingham.

I wouldn't take the Rail Replacement. Tonight's 1645 Derby - Stoke rail replacement arrived into Stoke at 1840 4 mins after the 1745 train from Derby.

 

[station_road]

I wouldn't take the Rail Replacement. Tonight's 1645 Derby - Stoke rail replacement arrived into Stoke at 1840 4 mins after the 1745 train from Derby.

There was a time a few years ago when if EMT needed to put on a rail replacement they ran two buses - a fast from Derby to Stoke which wouldn't take much longer than the train was timetabled for, and a stopper for the intermediate stations.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

Can anyone please help me understand why the normal weekday pattern for the Matlock branch (leaving Derby c 34 past hour) is broken twice during the evening, with departures c10 minutes earlier from Derby, and then a longer layover at Matlock. The second of these (2023 from Derby) means that there is no connection from the 1902 from St Pancras, so the first SuperOffPeak journey after the afternoon blackout doesn't leave St Pancras until 2002: 75 minutes after the end of the blackout.

 

[louis97]

Can anyone please help me understand why the normal weekday pattern for the Matlock branch (leaving Derby c 34 past hour) is broken twice during the evening, with departures c10 minutes earlier from Derby, and then a longer layover at Matlock. The second of these (2023 from Derby) means that there is no connection from the 1902 from St Pancras, so the first SuperOffPeak journey after the afternoon blackout doesn't leave St Pancras until 2002: 75 minutes after the end of the blackout.

Seems the trains ex London are running in a slightly different path in those hours, this means there isn't enough room for the Matlock departure between the London-Sheffield and the Northbound CrossCountry service. Must admit that is a little disappointing for a new timetable.

 

[43055]

The Robin Hood Line has a updated timetable from the 11th October (for no reason).

Train times remain the same but during the day Monday to Saturday calls to Langwith-Whaley Thorns and Creswell are reduced to two hourly with a bus on the opposite hour.

 

[Sleepy]

Quite honestly East Mids has become a bad joke for East Anglia to connect at Peterborough to travel North with LNER, seemingly no attempt to sort Sunday dispute at all ??

 

[ChrisC]

The Robin Hood Line has a updated timetable from the 11th October (for no reason).

Train times remain the same but during the day Monday to Saturday calls to Langwith-Whaley Thorns and Creswell are reduced to two hourly with a bus on the opposite hour.

The temporary revised timetables were introduced in June and things ought to be getting back to normal now with some of the missing trains reintroduced. Not with EMR, as now things actually are to get even worse. Very little change seems likely on the Robin Hood Line even from December. The 0724 train from Nottingham to Worksop on Monday to Fridays still does not stop at Hucknall and according to RTT will continue not to do so even after the December timetable change.

 

[dk1]

Quite honestly East Mids has become a bad joke for East Anglia to connect at Peterborough to travel North with LNER, seemingly no attempt to sort Sunday dispute at all ??

To be fair the Ely-Peterborough section has been closed most Sundays of late with continuing work near Manea.

 

[Sleepy]

To be fair the Ely-Peterborough section has been closed most Sundays of late with continuing work near Manea.

I probably didn't word it very well but meant in general with the gaps in weekday timetable too.

 

[Watershed]

To be fair the Ely-Peterborough section has been closed most Sundays of late with continuing work near Manea.

Although EMR have made no effort to run to Peterborough, or to Ely, during those closures.

 

[dk1]

I probably didn't word it very well but meant in general with the gaps in weekday timetable too.

Looks like all services on the eastern leg resume from December on weekdays apart from the 12:51 ex-Liverpool & 18:56 ex-Norwich.

 

[I like Class 153]

When they reduced stops at Spondon after it was introduced hourly on Monday to Friday and 21 a day in May, I was very angry about that as it was better as I was getting the Train into Derby City Centre as it is cheaper than the buses as on the Buses it costs me £5.20 and the train fare from Spondon to Derby return is £3.70, that's cheaper than the buses, I really the Monday to Friday hourly and 21 a day on Saturdays is bought back soon as I prefer to start my train journeys from Spondon rather than catch the bus into Derby City Centre

I really do hope that the direct Matlock to Nottingham is back in December and hopefully the hourly stopping at Spondon is bought back or something isnsorted

 

[43055]

When they reduced stops at Spondon after it was introduced hourly on Monday to Friday and 21 a day in May, I was very angry about that as it was better as I was getting the Train into Derby City Centre as it is cheaper than the buses as on the Buses it costs me £5.20 and the train fare from Spondon to Derby return is £3.70, that's cheaper than the buses, I really the Monday to Friday hourly and 21 a day on Saturdays is bought back soon as I prefer to start my train journeys from Spondon rather than catch the bus into Derby City Centre

I really do hope that the direct Matlock to Nottingham is back in December and hopefully the hourly stopping at Spondon is bought back or something isnsorted

No change to the Matlock services in December except for Sundays where they are showing as running to Nottingham but not stopping at Spondon.

 

[I like Class 153]

No change to the Matlock services in December except for Sundays where they are showing as running to Nottingham but not stopping at Spondon.

What, so the Matlock trains will be still terminating at Derby?

 

[43055]

What, so the Matlock trains will be still terminating at Derby?

Yes still a Derby - Matlock shuttle.

 

[STINT47]

Yes still a Derby - Matlock shuttle.

I have to wonder if this will become permanent? After four mobrhs things show little sign of getting better.

Maybe put s few Spondon stops into the Crewe service to compensate.

 

[I like Class 153]

I have to wonder if this will become permanent? After four mobrhs things show little sign of getting better.

Maybe put s few Spondon stops into the Crewe service to compensate.

Not good but if they did stop some of the Crewe to Newark at Spondon and Attenborough then that would be a start