Revised EMR Regional Timetables - From 19th June

[43055]

I have to wonder if this will become permanent? After four mobrhs things show little sign of getting better.

Maybe put s few Spondon stops into the Crewe service to compensate.

Not good but if they did stop some of the Crewe to Newark at Spondon and Attenborough then that would be a start

Will be lucky if the Crewe service had time to stop with only 8 mins or so at each end of the route and only about 3 mins at Derby and Nottingham on route.

 

[I like Class 153]

Will be lucky if the Crewe service had time to stop with only 8 mins or so at each end of the route and only about 3 mins at Derby and Nottingham on route.

I feel like that the Spondon and Attenborough won't be having their more frequent stop then, you can't go direct to Derby from Attenborough, Spondon haven't got many stops now, this isn't good so I'll be back on the Buses then permanently

 

[Trainfan2019]

Not good but if they did stop some of the Crewe to Newark at Spondon and Attenborough then that would be a start

Extending the Crewe route to Newark has added nearly an hour extra journey time end to end and I've noticed that punctuality has got worse. Adding even more stops in may cause even more punctuality problems.

 

[I like Class 153]

Extending the Crewe route to Newark has added nearly an hour extra journey time end to end and I've noticed that punctuality has got worse. Adding even more stops in may cause even more punctuality problems.

The Crewe train shouldn't of been extended to Newark Castle, it should of stayed as Matlock to Newark Castle and Crewe to Nottingham would of been perfect

 

[43055]

The October issue of Modern Railways has a article talking to the MD and Operations Director of EMR with some info about the regional timetable which are currently running around 75% of the May timetable with the aim in December to have 81% of the services running including reintroducing missing services between:
Nottingham and Leicester
Liverpool - Nottingham and Norwich
Peak services on the Robin Hood line
Newark - Derby and Crewe

The reliability of the Robin Hood line was mentioned in the article which was put down to single track sections. So nothing to do with the May timetable change then.

 

[louis97]

The reliability of the Robin Hood line was mentioned in the article which was put down to single track sections. So nothing to do with the May timetable change then.

I wouldn't draw that conclusion. When you expect trains to get through the single line section quicker (with no material change in infrastructure and stock) it shouldn't really be a surprise that performance suffers. Especially when the margins between trains are tighter with the extra stop in each direction because of one train per hour.

 

[ChrisC]

The reliability of the Robin Hood line was mentioned in the article which was put down to single track sections. So nothing to do with the May timetable change then.

That’s what worries me. The reason for the poor reliability keeps being given as the single line sections. No mention of the fact that the previous timetable of 2tph through the single track sections was run very successfully for over 20 years. Apart from a couple of peak time trains being restored from December the timetable reduction remains and there’s no knowing whether a full timetable will even be restored next May. It worries me that it will never return to the the pre covid timetable and the reason will falsely be given as the unreliability caused by the constraints of the single line sections. No mention of the new unworkable timetables or perhaps slower Class 170 trains.

As I have stated in previous posts, although I can live with an hourly service for totally local journeys, it is the lack of connections with the current timetable that makes the service useless for any longer journeys. The trains arrive in Nottingham just after all the main connections have departed and the same happens in the opposite direction where the RHL train departs just before a number of trains arrive. I’ve stopped using it as I don’t want to be sitting around on Nottingham station waiting for an hour at the beginning or end of a longer journey. Things are not much better for connections at Worksop with Northern not currently running the Sheffield to Gainsborough Central trains during most of the day.

 

[Mikey C]

I took the 19:45 replacement bus from Lincoln to Newark Northgate last night (which left late but arrived on time). I assume this is a regular occurrence as next Saturday is the same

The 19:31 to Peterborough was also a bus replacement, indeed there were too many people to fit on the coach, so there were a large number of people having to travel by taxi...

 

[bunnahabhain]

I wouldn't draw that conclusion. When you expect trains to get through the single line section quicker (with no material change in infrastructure and stock) it shouldn't really be a surprise that performance suffers. Especially when the margins between trains are tighter with the extra stop in each direction because of one train per hour.

I think there is a misconception that 170s were going to be quicker because of the doors, because they have a more powerful engine, etc etc. In reality I think they're slower in almost every aspect. There's a 3 second pause before power is taken, the doors need the open buttons pressed for 2 seconds to commission them, the /5 sets sound the hustle alarm at the guards local door (the /4 don't so are quicker to close). Etc, all of this adds up to precious seconds which combined with the tighter sectional running times has caused the unreliability. Its worked fine for the past 20 years and all of a sudden the timetable changes and it doesn't!

 

[I like Class 153]

The October issue of Modern Railways has a article talking to the MD and Operations Director of EMR with some info about the regional timetable which are currently running around 75% of the May timetable with the aim in December to have 81% of the services running including reintroducing missing services between:
Nottingham and Leicester
Liverpool - Nottingham and Norwich
Peak services on the Robin Hood line
Newark - Derby and Crewe

The reliability of the Robin Hood line was mentioned in the article which was put down to single track sections. So nothing to do with the May timetable change then.

What no changes to the Matlock to Nottingham?, so the Matlock trains will still terminate at Derby?, This is not good!, No frequent stops at Spondon and Attenborough then and this not good either!, I'm not very happy with this!

 

[louis97]

I think there is a misconception that 170s were going to be quicker because of the doors, because they have a more powerful engine, etc etc.

They really have no defence either, they ran them on the route before the timetable change, some on the ground research would have told them changing the running times was a bad idea.

 

[STINT47]

What no changes to the Matlock to Nottingham?, so the Matlock trains will still terminate at Derby?, This is not good!, No frequent stops at Spondon and Attenborough then and this not good either!, I'm not very happy with this!

The Matlock service is set to remain as a Derby shuttle. TBH I'm starting to think that this will be a permanent thing.

Attenborough gets s stop on the Leicester local service each hour, Spondon never had a great service so the few weeks when it went to hourly may have been it's very short heyday.

Not very good I know but i can imagine this being used as a justification for keeping the current shuttle.

The reliability of the Robin Hood line was mentioned in the article which was put down to single track sections. So nothing to do with the May timetable change then.

Unless they intend to double the single line section they had better come up with a diffrent plan. It's ok to explain what is causing the

problem and apologise but then you need to say what your doing to fix it. RIght now EMR seem to be saying we know the service is unreliable, we know why it is but we aren't going to do anything so either put up with it or stop using the train.

 

[DDB]

The almost complete withdrawal of the Spondon services gets mentioned in the article early on but worryingly isn't mentioned later on when they talk about December improvements.

Spondon has a worse service now than during the height of the pandemic and the doesn't seem to be any interest in making it better.

 

[Skymonster]

The almost complete withdrawal of the Spondon services gets mentioned in the article early on but worryingly isn't mentioned later on when they talk about December improvements

You have to understand that most journalists / editors writing for magazines such as Modern Railways are not going to assertively challenge interviewees such as the MD of a TOC. Such interviews are almost always conducted under the oversight of the company’s press office(r) who will typically bar such deep questioning or ask for the responses to be redacted if they reflect badly. If the interviewer then chooses to press the matter it’s likely to be the last media invite they get from the business.

 

[derbybusdepot]

The almost complete withdrawal of the Spondon services gets mentioned in the article early on but worryingly isn't mentioned later on when they talk about December improvements.

Spondon has a worse service now than during the height of the pandemic and the doesn't seem to be any interest in making it better.

You would think it would be easy enough to stop the Crewe train at Spondon as it passes through hourly.

The area by the station is being redeveloped so their should be many people employed there during construction and once completed. I expect that was the reason the enhanced service was put in place initially.

The service is now worse, XC have even took the stop off the departure just before 11pm from Derby on a Saturday for some reason.

Derby City Council are also to have a park and ride site in the area, although it looks as though this will be away from the station closer to Raynesway than the Railway Station.

 

[bunnahabhain]

They really have no defence either, they ran them on the route before the timetable change, some on the ground research would have told them changing the running times was a bad idea.

The same is true for almost every regional route though, Skegness for example appears to have had 5mins extracted from the timetable for the 80 odd miles. So where before you used to have a bit of padding especially around Grantham there's now none. Newark to Crewe seems to be similar.

Nothing except the timetable changed and punctuality went down across the board. We'll now spend the next 5 years coming up with grand ideas to restore punctuality until we get back to where we used to be, having achievable SRTs and padding to accommodate the unexpected.

A great example of what we used to have (maybe still do) was that Worksop to Nottingham used to have 4mins Mansfield Woodhouse to Mansfield Town. Turnbacks at Mansfield Woodhouse (MSW) had 3mins despite needing to accommodate a running brake test. This was due to the 3min SRT not being adequate so was extended to 4, but the entire WTT wouldn't work if the Woodhouse turnbacks had 4mins as that would have reduced the dwell at MSW which broke the plan.

 

[WesternLancer]

What no changes to the Matlock to Nottingham?, so the Matlock trains will still terminate at Derby?, This is not good!, No frequent stops at Spondon and Attenborough then and this not good either!, I'm not very happy with this!

If EMR have this 'stockholder event' on 9 Nov as mentioned before - would be good for people to write to their MP and local council public transport team to make these sorts of points so they are under some pressure because you are spot on ref this.

 

[louis97]

The same is true for almost every regional route though, Skegness for example appears to have had 5mins extracted from the timetable for the 80 odd miles. So where before you used to have a bit of padding especially around Grantham there's now none. Newark to Crewe seems to be similar.

Nothing except the timetable changed and punctuality went down across the board. We'll now spend the next 5 years coming up with grand ideas to restore punctuality until we get back to where we used to be, having achievable SRTs and padding to accommodate the unexpected.

A great example of what we used to have (maybe still do) was that Worksop to Nottingham used to have 4mins Mansfield Woodhouse to Mansfield Town. Turnbacks at Mansfield Woodhouse (MSW) had 3mins despite needing to accommodate a running brake test. This was due to the 3min SRT not being adequate so was extended to 4, but the entire WTT wouldn't work if the Woodhouse turnbacks had 4mins as that would have reduced the dwell at MSW which broke the plan.

Yes it is a running theme of the new regional timetable. A return journey on Derby-Crewe now is expected to be around 10 minutes faster than before, this isn't entirely unachievable (the previous running times were based on single Class 153s). However you can see why performance would suffer with less time in the schedule.

I did notice the issue with service starting at Woodhouse when the timetable started in May. Previously the dwell times at Sutton Parkway or Kirkby in Ashfield helped with this, 1.5 minute at one and minute at the other. In the new timetable in May these dwell times were reduced, with the obvious result!

 

[Watershed]

You would think it would be easy enough to stop the Crewe train at Spondon as it passes through hourly.

But it doesn't work that way. Just because it passes through doesn't mean it has enough time to stop.

 

[43055]

You would think it would be easy enough to stop the Crewe train at Spondon as it passes through hourly.

Not easy when there is no time to stop. Just like the Robin Hood line most Crewe services have been running late due to short dwell and running times. As a result they arrive at Crewe when they should leave!

 

[Impey0711]

Hoping for a introduction of a Sunday stopping service between Nottingham and Leicester at some point unless you drive getting around on a Sunday from barrow upon soar or sileby is impossible I appreciate things are challenging at the moment but we are in 2021 now

 

[derbybusdepot]

Not easy when there is no time to stop. Just like the Robin Hood line most Crewe services have been running late due to short dwell and running times. As a result they arrive at Crewe when they should leave!

But it doesn't work that way. Just because it passes through doesn't mean it has enough time to stop.

But surely the schedule can be adjusted, obviously not over night, but they have had months to try and sort it out.

XC managed to stop more trains at Spondon at very short notice, have they had any reliability issues as a result? Hopefully they will use Spondon more frequently in the future.

 

[dk1]

But surely the schedule can be adjusted, obviously not over night, but they have had months to try and sort it out.

XC managed to stop more trains at Spondon at very short notice, have they had any reliability issues as a result? Hopefully they will use Spondon more frequently in the future.

With no more than 25k punters per annum in the last few years, Spondon doesn’t really look much like a revenue raid for XC.

 

[Watershed]

But surely the schedule can be adjusted, obviously not over night, but they have had months to try and sort it out.

XC managed to stop more trains at Spondon at very short notice, have they had any reliability issues as a result? Hopefully they will use Spondon more frequently in the future.

The schedules are very tight. I haven't looked into the details but I am sure that EMR have, and that they would have introduced calls if it were possible. And having lots of months doesn't help if you would need a wholesale recast of XC paths to make it work, as a hypothetical example.

 

[CICERO55]

I will be using EMR from Liverpool to Manchester soon, i was wondering if they are still short formed services and in peoples’ opinons why has this issue gone on for so long? Lack of 170s? Also am i right in thinking that the liverpool to norwich route split is not happening until 2022/2023? Thanks

 

[Killingworth]

I will be using EMR from Liverpool to Manchester soon, i was wondering if they are still short formed services and in peoples’ opinons why has this issue gone on for so long? Lack of 170s? Also am i right in thinking that the liverpool to norwich route split is not happening until 2022/2023? Thanks

On the recast it's been deferred so many times it could even be.May 2024. There always seems to another reason to push it down the road. May 2024 (conceivably December 2023) is when Hope Valley routes can be recast after completion of the scheme now just starting.

 

[Llandudno]

I will be using EMR from Liverpool to Manchester soon, i was wondering if they are still short formed services and in peoples’ opinons why has this issue gone on for so long? Lack of 170s? Also am i right in thinking that the liverpool to norwich route split is not happening until 2022/2023? Thanks

Suggest you use Northern or TransPennine if you want to have a better chance of getting a seat, or the train actually turning up…!

 

[dk1]

EMR appear to be running well from Norwich today. The 09:55 will be extremely well loaded if the amount of passengers & luggage waiting to board 20 mins before departure is anything to go by.

 

[STINT47]

EMR have been posting on their social media that they are working hard to resolve the issues. TBH you would struggle to see it with cancellations and short formed services still far to frequent. Who knows what the service would be like if they weren't so hard working and dedicated?

It also gives a link on the post to find the latest announvmrnt but when I access this it just links to the original announcement and tells you nothing new.

fb://photo/4749063471779923?set=a.315821635104151&sfnsn=scwspmo

 

[Baxenden Bank]

EMR have been posting on their social media that they are working hard to resolve the issues. TBH you would struggle to see it with cancellations and short formed services still far to frequent. Who knows what the service would be like if they weren't so hard working and dedicated?

It also gives a link on the post to find the latest announvmrnt but when I access this it just links to the original announcement and tells you nothing new.

fb://photo/4749063471779923?set=a.315821635104151&sfnsn=scwspmo

And links to the original revised timetables from May, not the current versions*

*unless corrected since I looked yesterday