Rioting students

[142094]

Tar and brush come to mind for most of the posts in this thread.

What today's so called Graduates lose out on is "life experiences", "hands on" experience in the workplace. Grads remain closetted in their own little classroom world (when they are there) and are missing out on vital hands on practical aspects of jobs.

There are a lot of companies that have summer placements and work experience, and I know a lot of people (including myself) who have been on one or more. I think we need to break the commonly-held myth that students do nothing for three years and then sit on their arses until they get some kind of job.

Furthermore, I cannot understand how these "masses" of young people even get into University? They need to read, write and spell correctly before even going there!! A recent photograph in the Daily Mirror, no, not the Mail, pictured a prospective Student wannabee spelling "AFFECCT" for AFFECT!!
The mind boggles.

Of course, one person is the benchmark for the rest of the thousands of students in the country. Silly me for not realising that.

Keep Universities for the High Flyer's only please, not riff-raff wanting freebees from our already burdened Tax Payer for free or cut price Uni Fees on these somewhat modern day worthless Graduations.

What 'freebees' would these be? As far as I'm concerned I am paying for my own education and will also be contributing a lot more in taxes that some of the people who haven't been to university will do over their lifetimes. If you want to unburden the tax payer then write to your MP asking why we as a country spend so much on wars that we shouldn't be in, aid for foreign countries who will be richer than us in a few years and why we send money to the EU so French farmers can build themselves swimming pools.

If what I see on the TV News and Newspaper reports of the calibre of these young people, I despair for what the future holds.........

I wouldn't believe everything I see in the media if I was you.

Does that sum up the general mentality of todays "educated" society???

Do you really believe that?

By the way you missed an apostrophe. Twice. It should be "today's" and not "todays".

 

[4SRKT]

I agree with those comments apart from your final paragraph. Violence is way beyond any excuse to make a point of view. I feel sorry for the unworthy comments pointed towards our Police Force who had to keep control of those idiots. Its fortunate that a certain Fire Extinguisher that was released from a great height did not kill anyone. Does that sum up the general mentality of todays "educated" society???

I neither condone nor condemn the violence. I see it as a potential and predictable reaction to inflexibility and injustice, made by voiceless and ignored people who are being made to carry the [financial] can for a situation they have not created and cannot influence.

No rights were ever given by some nice guy at the top. Our rights were bought by all the blood and all the tears of our grandmothers and grandfathers before.

 

[Geezertronic]

And we are supposed to be a civilised society now who has gone past all of the days of bloodshed? Peaceful protests should be tolerated as it is a persons right to protest peacefully. I just hope these student rioters are given criminal records which will affect their future employment oppertunities. Football violence and thuggery is not tolerated, why should this be?

 

[scotsman]

It appears someone is quite the bigot...

 

[Geezertronic]

It appears someone is quite the bigot...

Whose that then?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I neither condone nor condemn the violence. I see it as a potential and predictable reaction to inflexibility and injustice, made by voiceless and ignored people who are being made to carry the [financial] can for a situation they have not created and cannot influence.

No rights were ever given by some nice guy at the top. Our rights were bought by all the blood and all the tears of our grandmothers and grandfathers before.

Well said 4SRKT. I agree totally.

 

[ainsworth74]

And we are supposedto be a civilised society now who has gone past all of the days of bloodshed?

I think the key word there is supposed. Are we more civilised? You say we're past the days of bloodshed but are we actually? Looking around society today I still see plenty of murders, assaults and rape. Our country is currently embroiled in a war of dubious at best legality and has led to the deaths of hundreds of our own troops and at least thousands and possibly in excess of a million civilians in two other countries. Is that more civilised than society was a hundred or more years ago? I would say society is perhaps more sedentary than it was previously, more willing to accept the status quo and quicker to abhor violence than in previous years. But more civilised by what measure? We don't officially discriminate on race or colour (but we never have in this country, yes we have racism by individuals and we still do but the state never has) and women now have the vote but what else is a measure of our enhanced civilisation?

Violent protest has been a way of making a point and getting change to happen for a long time. A British example would be the Suffragette's they didn't protest peacefully, the chained themselves to railings, smashed windows and possibly even planted bombs to get there message across. Guess what it worked and now full universal suffrage is considered to be a normal, even vital measure of a countries democracy. Yet I assume that you feel that they should all have been locked up and the key thrown away as the dared to take direct action rather than just shout slogans? You look throughout history and violent protest has been one of the key ways in which society changes. In the 19th century workers in factories would take direct action to get better conditions and pay for themselves and others. People in this country enjoy the pay and conditions they do because at some point someone said enough is enough no-one is listening and resorted to violence to get their message across. Are those people also worthy of being locked away for ever and forgotten about?

As for the present protests I don't actually support what they are campaigning for, as I feel the whole system needs reforming not just how it's payed for. But I don't condemn them all for just daring to stand up and making noise be that violent or otherwise.

 

[scotsman]

Whose that then?

Not you anyway.

 

[Geezertronic]

I think the key word there is supposed. Are we more civilised? You say we're past the days of bloodshed but are we actually? Looking around society today I still see plenty of murders, assaults and rape. Our country is currently embroiled in a war of dubious at best legality and has led to the deaths of hundreds of our own troops and at least thousands and possibly in excess of a million civilians in two other countries. Is that more civilised than society was a hundred or more years ago? I would say society is perhaps more sedentary than it was previously, more willing to accept the status quo and quicker to abhor violence than in previous years. But more civilised by what measure? We don't officially discriminate on race or colour (but we never have in this country, yes we have racism by individuals and we still do but the state never has) and women now have the vote but what else is a measure of our enhanced civilisation?

Violent protest has been a way of making a point and getting change to happen for a long time. A British example would be the Suffragette's they didn't protest peacefully, the chained themselves to railings, smashed windows and possibly even planted bombs to get there message across. Guess what it worked and now full universal suffrage is considered to be a normal, even vital measure of a countries democracy. Yet I assume that you feel that they should all have been locked up and the key thrown away as the dared to take direct action rather than just shout slogans? You look throughout history and violent protest has been one of the key ways in which society changes. In the 19th century workers in factories would take direct action to get better conditions and pay for themselves and others. People in this country enjoy the pay and conditions they do because at some point someone said enough is enough no-one is listening and resorted to violence to get their message across. Are those people also worthy of being locked away for ever and forgotten about?

As for the present protests I don't actually support what they are campaigning for, as I feel the whole system needs reforming not just how it's payed for. But I don't condemn them all for just daring to stand up and making noise be that violent or otherwise.

I just think that sometimes, people have to be responsible for their own actions. If a violent protestor such as the guy who threw the fire extinguisher off the building gets sent down or a criminal record at the least and it affects his future, then I hope he thinks his moment of madness was worth it.

Personally, I am much more tolerant of peaceful protests and marches rather than ones that trash and burn the place. Violent protests always seem like a form of blackmail to me - "you either do what we say or we'll trash the place" doesn't really appeal to me.

Maybe I am less tolerant because on occasion I have had the misfortune to work with some right idiots who used a similar philosophy of "do as I say or work life will be awkward". It very rarely ended with things in their favour I hasten to add.

 

[thefab444]

Violent protest has been a way of making a point and getting change to happen for a long time. A British example would be the Suffragette's they didn't protest peacefully, the chained themselves to railings, smashed windows and possibly even planted bombs to get there message across. Guess what it worked and now full universal suffrage is considered to be a normal, even vital measure of a countries democracy.

There are many that would argue that the violent suffragettes (WSPU and the Pankhursts etc.) actually did more harm than good to the cause.

 

[Geezertronic]

Not knowing much about the meaning of "violent suffragettes", but would Northern Ireland/IRA etc... fall into that category?

 

[4SRKT]

Not knowing much about the meaning of "violent suffragettes", but would Northern Ireland/IRA etc... fall into that category?

Well, I would say the outcomes for Catholics in NI are far better now than under the Stormont government. If anything Catholics are now in the ascendancy.

 

[Darandio]

Regardless of whether anyone thinks the vote is correct or not, I am ashamed to see the scenes currently on the news. Police injured, one seriously and for what? No amount of violence or protesting is going to change anything.

Shameful.

 

[imagination]

323 ayes
302 nos

to both votes

 

[scotsman]

I hope you're all happy.

 

[Darandio]

I hope you're all happy.

all happy?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

all happy?

I think he means anyone who voted Tory or Lib, like we are all responsible for tuition fees up to £9,000. I will agree though, there is no excuse for causing injury to police, to be honest they should be nicked, and charged.

 

[scotsman]

all happy?

all, as in all the ranters and moaners

 

[Ferret]

I hope you're all happy.

Yes, I'm ecstatic.....not. I've listened to how several Police Officers have been injured, parts of London vandalised and all for what?! A shameful day for Britain. Still, I'm sure there'll be attempts to blame a minority of troublemakers, but it does seem to be a significant minority. I fear for the future of this country, I really do.

 

[scotsman]

Yes, I'm ecstatic.....not. I've listened to how several Police Officers have been injured, parts of London vandalised and all for what?! A shameful day for Britain. Still, I'm sure there'll be attempts to blame a minority of troublemakers, but it does seem to be a significant minority. I fear for the future of this country, I really do.

I'm afraid I will, 90% peaceful protestors doesn't make a good story.

 

[Ferret]

I'm afraid I will, 90% peaceful protestors doesn't make a good story.

It's the 10% that have lost students a hell of a lot of goodwill though.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

It's the 10% that have lost students a hell of a lot of goodwill though.

And 90% of a generation that have now lost all faith in politics and the promises politicians make.

 

[Pumbaa]

Yes, I'm ecstatic.....not. I've listened to how several Police Officers have been injured, parts of London vandalised and all for what?! A shameful day for Britain. Still, I'm sure there'll be attempts to blame a minority of troublemakers, but it does seem to be a significant minority. I fear for the future of this country, I really do.

Woah - conveniently missing out;

- 19 protestors reported injured by police batons, 6 taken to hospital.
- The protest was kettled and charged at; the police refused to let media, under 16s and people clearly in school uniform out of the kettle.
- The police removed their numbers, and when taken to force by students with cameras, replied by shoving them back into the crowd.
- There are pictures online of 1) a wheelchair bound protestor being pulled from his chair by the police into the crowd, 2) police officers pushing aside a person with heavy bleeding to his head, 3) police horses during the charge trampling over the crowd.

This violence was caused by the police, and I hold the Met mostly responsible. Admittedly there were missiles throw before the kettle was implemented, but there is TV footage of students going to pick up bricks etc before being shouted at by fellow protestors to put them down.

I fully expect and support students to be going mental right now, it is a dark day for education and politics.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Woah - conveniently missing out;

- 19 protestors reported injured by police batons, 6 taken to hospital.
- The protest was kettled and charged at; the police refused to let media, under 16s and people clearly in school uniform out of the kettle.
- The police removed their numbers, and when taken to force by students with cameras, replied by shoving them back into the crowd.
- There are pictures online of 1) a wheelchair bound protestor being pulled from his chair by the police into the crowd, 2) police officers pushing aside a person with heavy bleeding to his head, 3) police horses during the charge trampling over the crowd.

This violence was caused by the police, and I hold the Met mostly responsible. Admittedly there were missiles throw before the kettle was implemented, but there is TV footage of students going to pick up bricks etc before being shouted at by fellow protestors to put them down.

I fully expect and support students to be going mental right now, it is a dark day for education and politics.

Well said. I have just emailed Nick Clegg and some other high-ranking LD MP's expressing my disgust for this decision.

 

[Ferret]

Woah - conveniently missing out;

- 19 protestors reported injured by police batons, 6 taken to hospital.
- The protest was kettled and charged at; the police refused to let media, under 16s and people clearly in school uniform out of the kettle.
- The police removed their numbers, and when taken to force by students with cameras, replied by shoving them back into the crowd.
- There are pictures online of 1) a wheelchair bound protestor being pulled from his chair by the police into the crowd, 2) police officers pushing aside a person with heavy bleeding to his head, 3) police horses during the charge trampling over the crowd.

This violence was caused by the police, and I hold the Met mostly responsible. Admittedly there were missiles throw before the kettle was implemented, but there is TV footage of students going to pick up bricks etc before being shouted at by fellow protestors to put them down.

I fully expect and support students to be going mental right now, it is a dark day for education and politics.

Like I say, a shameful day for Britain. I have to admit I had't seen those reports you mention. I had seen/heard reports of wacky baccy being smoked & beer cans being thrown at Police however. Sounds like neither side comes out with any credit, and one wonders how much of today's events were a direct result of previous protests, involving a fire extinguisher being launched off a building among other things.......

And 90% of a generation that have now lost all faith in politics and the promises politicians make.

Welcome to our world. Remember Blair's words in 1997? 'Education, education, education.' 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime'? We then had to put up with 13 years of Labour mismanagement where promises meant Sweet FA, culminating in the Lisbon Treaty farce. Worse thing is, we've fallen for it again - the Tories gained the most seats at the last election in part because of their stance on crime and punishment, only for that wolf in sheep's clothing Ken Clarke to do precisely the opposite of what Cameron said they would.

 

[Geezertronic]

The violent protestors got exactly what they deserved, both in the outcome of the vote and in the actions they caused the police to take.

Someone mentioned sympathy above, I have no sympathy for any of the violent protestors both today and before and every sympathy for the police who had to deal with these morons.

To comment:

- 19 protestors reported injured by police batons, 6 taken to hospital.

What were they doing to earn this response? Charging at the police?

- The protest was kettled and charged at;

From both sides? Nuff said

the police refused to let media, under 16s and people clearly in school uniform out of the kettle.

I don't give a stuff about the media but who in their right mind would take under 16s to a protest that clearly wasn't going to be peaceful given recent events? Ludicrous!

- The police removed their numbers, and when taken to force by students with cameras, replied by shoving them back into the crowd.

I can understand why they'd do that given previous protests

- There are pictures online of 1) a wheelchair bound protestor being pulled from his chair by the police into the crowd, 2) police officers pushing aside a person with heavy bleeding to his head, 3) police horses during the charge trampling over the crowd.

Collateral damage given the circumstances of the violence

This violence was caused by the police, and I hold the Met mostly responsible.

I disagree with you completely. But for the actions of a moronic few (hundred/thousand), the police had little choice but to respond with force.

Admittedly there were missiles throw before the kettle was implemented, but there is TV footage of students going to pick up bricks etc before being shouted at by fellow protestors to put them down.

That just about says it all really. Whether it is bricks or fire extinguishers, it doesn't really matter

I fully expect and support students to be going mental right now, it is a dark day for education and politics.

I don't support the students one bit given the violent protests

 

[yorkie]

They've lost all credibility. Their actions are disgusting. They are enemies of democracy and enemies of our society. And therefore, deserve to be treated as such. It's a dark day for students, and I feel for those who do not support these moves (including students on this forum who have, very commedably distanced themselves from these disgusting violent protests). As someone who is repaying student loans myself, but also not earning a high wage, I find it disgusting that they are moaning so much at having to repay a debt when they reach a decent wage, that is higher paid than many millions of people in this country get paid.

Indeed many of the protesters are far from fit to earn a salary exceeding £21,000 so they will never repay taxpayers the huge costs of their education.

They look down on lower paid people with their outrageous comments saying that they will be too hard up to pay a small proportion of their salary over £21,000 - this is a huge insult to people on low incomes. They think they can just walk into a £30, £40 or £50 grand job when they graduate? Think again losers, you won't. £21,000 is a reasonable wage and paying a small amount on any earnings above that is not going to break the bank and by suggesting it will you are basically sticking your noses up at anyone who is working class. SHAME ON YOU!

 

[GB]

I hope you're all happy.

No, not untill those that have caused so much damage and injury have been brought to account....and I do not mean the government.

Utterly disgraceful they way some of these students have behaved.

 

[scotsman]

Let me compare your attitudes with Hitler's for a moment....*

The violent protestors got exactly what they deserved, both in the outcome of the vote and in the actions they caused the police to take.

Hmm, he certainly ensured that people he disagreed with got what they deserved

Someone mentioned sympathy above, I have no sympathy for any of the violent protestors both today and before and every sympathy for the police who had to deal with these morons.

So did Hitler...

I don't give a stuff about the media but who in their right mind would take under 16s to a protest that clearly wasn't going to be peaceful given recent events? Ludicrous!

Hitler wasn't too big on individual freedoms either

I can understand why they'd do that given previous protests

He was also a fan of making the punishment fit the crime

Collateral damage given the circumstances of the violence

Hitler had a similar dergoatory attitude towards the disabled

I disagree with you completely. But for the actions of a moronic few (hundred/thousand), the police had little choice but to respond with force.

That was what he said when a madmen (read: A Nazi) set the Reichstag on fire.

I don't support the students one bit given the violent protests

No, really?


*Extreme satire may have been used in this post

 

[GB]

Ah Hitler, we know the argument has reached rock bottom when we start mentioning Hitler and the Nazis etc etc.