Rioting students

[Geezertronic]

Because they care about how their future will be impacted - I would be as well if I was 15. And good on them, if you care about it go make your point! I highly doubt most parents knew or supported, but isn't that what being a teenager is all about?!

Caring about their future is one thing but unfortunately at that age common sense doesn't apply - I know it didn't much when I was that age. They probably didn't realise that riots/violence would hit the heights it did, I would have felt out of my depth at that age in that scenario

 

[4SRKT]

Are they not people like us whose voice has a right to be heard? I am all for unionising schools and the right of schoolchildren to strike (campaigned for it when I was fourteen).

Do you actually mean this, or are you just trying to make geezertronic implode into a ball of self-righteous goo?

 

[Ferret]

Are they not people like us whose voice has a right to be heard? I am all for unionising schools and the right of schoolchildren to strike (campaigned for it when I was fourteen).

I'm all for people having a voice, but the fact of the matter is that a demonstration that has turned violent in the past is not a place for schoolchildren. You only have to read what 'pumbaa' has posted to understand that.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Caring about their future is one thing but unfortunately at that age common sense doesn't apply - I know it didn't much when I was that age. They probably didn't realise that riots/violence would hit the heights it did, I would have felt out of my depth at that age in that scenario

But according to you, if it's easy to stay away from the violence, where's the problem?

 

[mumrar]

How could anyone not think this protest would end in violence, when that is exactly what became of every other protest they had previously on the same subject?

 

[Geezertronic]

But according to you, if it's easy to stay away from the violence, where's the problem?

It's easy if you have common sense and can tell when a problem is escalating to be able to avoid it or at least place yourself in a position so you are less likely to get hurt. However I assume that most followed the pack and before they knew it were in too deep to avoid the rioting and violence and subsequent police action.

Personally, at that age I would have attended a protest locally in Birmingham rather than go to London, or even a sit in.

 

[mumrar]

I also find it quite a coincidence that I have brought up, in at least two posts, how many people other than students are seeing their lives changed and dreams and hopes shattered by policy and financing issues and not one of the pro-sudent posters has even acknowledged it.

These people are not marching on Westminster, busting up our heritage and shouting on every street corner with big badly written placards. They are getting in with life by going to work, if they're lucky enough to still have a job, or making adjustments to their lives in order to cope with the upheavel. No-one is offering them a cheap, pay it back when you can afford it loan to help them take steps toward a better future.

And yet amidst this they voice disapproval, write letters of complaint, and deal with the matter in a civilised way.

 

[LE Greys]

I'm all for people having a voice, but the fact of the matter is that a demonstration that has turned violent in the past is not a place for schoolchildren. You only have to read what 'pumbaa' has posted to understand that.

I could say that it is a place for nobody, but they chose freely to go there. There is nothing special about being a child, they have the same choices as to whether to take risks or not as we have.
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I also find it quite a coincidence that I have brought up, in at least two posts, how many people other than students are seeing their lives changed and dreams and hopes shattered by policy and financing issues and not one of the pro-sudent posters has even acknowledged it.

These people are not marching on Westminster, busting up our heritage and shouting on every street corner with big badly written placards. They are getting in with life by going to work, if they're lucky enough to still have a job, or making adjustments to their lives in order to cope with the upheavel. No-one is offering them a cheap, pay it back when you can afford it loan to help them take steps toward a better future.

And yet amidst this they voice disapproval, write letters of complaint, and deal with the matter in a civilised way.

And I correct that belatedly. There are many people losing their jobs or having their benefits cut, and many of them will end off in a far worse situation than I. I have a family to fall back on, they might not. However, the students are not only young, they usually have no dependants, so there is nobody relying on them for them to worry about. They can take more risks than those who have. Some people think that they should be out there as well.
"Students and workers, unite and fight"
As they said.

It didn't seem relevant before, but I have written letters of complaint, suggesting a cut in student numbers as an alternative strategy. No reply yet. I also complained about defence cuts, but that only received a fob-off letter.

 

[Geezertronic]

I could say that it is a place for nobody, but they chose freely to go there. There is nothing special about being a child, they have the same choices as to whether to take risks or not as we have.

So parental responsibility doesn't come into it then?

 

[Ferret]

I could say that it is a place for nobody, but they chose freely to go there. There is nothing special about being a child, they have the same choices as to whether to take risks or not as we have.

I'm afraid it was not their position to choose to go there. They were legally obliged to go to school yesterday, and that is where they should have been.

It didn't seem relevant before, but I have written letters of complaint, suggesting a cut in student numbers as an alternative strategy. No reply yet.

This is what a lot of people think too, me included. We cannot keep conning the younger generation into thinking that any old degree is a worthwhile qualification to have. A respected degree on the other hand, like Law/Medicine/Business will always carry weight, especially if you have a 2:1 or above.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I'm afraid it was not their position to choose to go there. They were legally obliged to go to school yesterday, and that is where they should have been.

Not after school hours, which is when most of the protesting started.

 

[LE Greys]

So parental responsibility doesn't come into it then?

I'm afraid it was not their position to choose to go there. They were legally obliged to go to school yesterday, and that is where they should have been.

I am assuming that free will does not begin at eighteen. Now, there is a legal requirement for parents to send their children to school, but not for the children to attend. Yes, that is a cop-out. However, that was one of the things that I tried to overturn, along with a reduction of the age of majority to twelve and the right to enter the workplace. It actually got me expelled from school, after I tried to instigate a walkout. I also do not think that parents are any more responsible for decisions freely entered into by children than husbands are for decisions freely entered into by wives. Many of the arguments used to deny children's rights were used to deny women's rights 100 years ago. Surely that is wrong.

Confessions of a child suffragette. I'll shut up now to avoid this escalating.

 

[Ferret]

Not after school hours, which is when most of the protesting started.

Many of them were there in the middle of the day, as discussed on Jeremy Vine's show on Radio 2.

 

[Oswyntail]

... I also do not think that parents are any more responsible for decisions freely entered into by children than husbands are for decisions freely entered into by wives. Many of the arguments used to deny children's rights were used to deny women's rights 100 years ago. Surely that is wrong....

There is a vast difference. Women of the suffragettes time were capable of fulfilling legal duties that are the price we pay for "rights". Children under the age of eighteen, with a couple of specified exceptions, do not have the legal standing to have those duties imposed, so do not have the same rights. This is based on an assessment by the democratic state - i.e us - as to the relative maturity of under-18s.

 

[yorkie]

I am assuming that free will does not begin at eighteen. Now, there is a legal requirement for parents to send their children to school, but not for the children to attend. Yes, that is a cop-out. However, that was one of the things that I tried to overturn, along with a reduction of the age of majority to twelve and the right to enter the workplace. It actually got me expelled from school, after I tried to instigate a walkout. I also do not think that parents are any more responsible for decisions freely entered into by children than husbands are for decisions freely entered into by wives. Many of the arguments used to deny children's rights were used to deny women's rights 100 years ago. Surely that is wrong.

Confessions of a child suffragette. I'll shut up now to avoid this escalating.

I recommend you watch this. (note: the title is wrong. The parents are actually not strict!). I think we should be more like that in this country.

 

[imagination]

A 17 year old could LEGALLY:
- have left school
- have a full time job
- pay full taxes
- own their own home
- be married
- have children

And is no less likely than anyone else to have a fully formed and justified personal political viewpoint.

They can drive, they can drink alcohol in public buildings (although not buy it), they can be entirely self reliant. Cinemas treat them as adults, as do the railways. They can be entirely self reliant and independent in their lives.

Yet they aren't allowed to vote.

Seems silly to me.

Oh and yes I wholeheartedly support lowering the voting age to 16.

That's kind of off the topic though

 

[yorkie]

Here's another posh snob who has been exposed.

Video here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ch-forward-break-the-lines...-unto-death.html

His Dad is very rich indeed.

He's also a journalist, and music editor of Replica Magazine.

The rich pretend that it's poor people who are losing out, and poor people who are behaving disgracefully. This is completely and utterly untrue, it's a smear campaign against the working classes by the snobs, and several of these rich snobs have now been exposed!

It appears that he was born into a life of luxury, brought up not to show respect.

I don't believe his apology. It's the words of someone who knows that millions of people know who he is and that he has done something very, very, wrong and insulting.

He claims he didn't know what it was. Can he not read? If he can't read, then his eyesight isn't good enough to do stunts like that. So no, I don't believe him.

I wonder which rich snob will be exposed next?

I'd like to know which snobs destroyed the bus shelters and attacked buses, too. They're attacking the working classes. They're running a risky game though as once they are uncovered, the people they are insulting and sticking fingers up may choose to fight back.

If I was him, I'd be in hiding for the rest of my life.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

And what about the student who is now in hospital undergoing brain surgery because he was hit so hard by a policeman? I didn't see the media reporting that widely, but I would think it's slightly more important than a bus shelter.

 

[Darandio]

And what about the student who is now in hospital undergoing brain surgery because he was hit so hard by a policeman? I didn't see the media reporting that widely, but I would think it's slightly more important than a bus shelter.

Really, it's pretty much all I have heard and seen all day.

 

[Geezertronic]

And what about the student who is now in hospital undergoing brain surgery because he was hit so hard by a policeman? I didn't see the media reporting that widely, but I would think it's slightly more important than a bus shelter.

He's actually out of the op and in a stable condition according to the BBC News website which is the only bit of good news I've heard all day on the subject:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11967098

Alfie said to me before this happened 'Somebody is going to get killed'. It's very frightening

I've got to ask why they still went if they thought that?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

He's actually out of the op and in a stable condition according to the BBC News website which is the only bit of good news I've heard all day on the subject:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11967098

That is very good news, I hope he makes a full recovery.

 

[Bish Boy]

i wonder how much money could have been saved for the economy if we hadn't had to pay police overtime repair bills and grafitti removal might have brought the yearly fee down to 7-8000 lol. I heard one rioter claim that education is a right not a privilage since when has this been the case anywhere in the world also think yourselves lucky you have had a free education untill 18 and in recent years have been paid to go to college must be so hard. at 18 I went and got an apprenticeship in engineering working full time studying one day a week (sometimes 12 hrs at college) for very low pay paying income tax and into a personal pension scheme and after 4 years came out of it with a decent paid job and if i'd been clever enough a chance to get a degree why after that do i have to pay for these lay abouts to go to uni and do two- three lectures a week in media or klingon or some other non degree and then for them to riot in the capital of country i work so hard for if you go to uni get a part time job save up the money instead of ****ing it against the wall take some responsibility for yourself, your young adults for gods sake start acting like it.

 

[90019]

He's actually out of the op and in a stable condition according to the BBC News website which is the only bit of good news I've heard all day on the subject:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11967098

If they're trying to get a charge of attempted murger for the guy who dropped the fire extinguisher, then I hope they will be doing the same for the police officer who hit him, if they can find out who it was.

 

[yorkie]

And what about the student who is now in hospital undergoing brain surgery because he was hit so hard by a policeman? I didn't see the media reporting that widely, but I would think it's slightly more important than a bus shelter.

And how do we know this student is entirely innocent? For all we know he was looking for trouble, along with many others. The police didn't start a fight, the rioting students did. They can't just stand there and allow themselves and our monuments, our statues, our buildings, be attacked.

What about the horses that were attacked? I didn't realise the rioting students were anti-animals too. Is there anything they're not anti? :roll:
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I've got to ask why they still went if they thought that?

Exactly. It was made clear on the news exactly what was expected on the morning in question. Anyone who went there knew exactly what to expect: violence.

 

[90019]

What about the horses that were attacked? I didn't realise the rioting students were anti-animals too. Is there anything they're not anti? :roll:

If someone charges you on a horse, would you just stand there and let them?

 

[TrainBrain185]

And what about the student who is now in hospital undergoing brain surgery because he was hit so hard by a policeman? I didn't see the media reporting that widely, but I would think it's slightly more important than a bus shelter.

Have some sympathy for the Policemen. Student's? Well if they play with fire, some are gonna get burned. End of.

 

[yorkie]

i wonder how much money could have been saved for the economy if we hadn't had to pay police overtime repair bills and grafitti removal might have brought the yearly fee down to 7-8000 lol.

The rioting students are not going to see it like that. On the contrary, they want the threat of violence to win over democracy. They are not interested in how much us taxpayers have to pay! They'll change their minds in a few years though.

I heard one rioter claim that education is a right not a privilage since when has this been the case anywhere in the world

Well, exactly, they don't know how lucky they are to live here. They insult us by vandalising war memorials and moan at how bad things are here. We have too many violent thugs in this country, and they are welcome to go elsewhere, I wish they would!

also think yourselves lucky you have had a free education untill 18 and in recent years have been paid to go to college must be so hard. at 18 I went and got an apprenticeship in engineering working full time studying one day a week (sometimes 12 hrs at college) for very low pay paying income tax and into a personal pension scheme and after 4 years came out of it with a decent paid job and if i'd been clever enough a chance to get a degree why after that do i have to pay for these lay abouts to go to uni and do two- three lectures a week in media or klingon or some other non degree and then for them to riot in the capital of country i work so hard for if you go to uni get a part time job save up the money instead of ****ing it against the wall take some responsibility for yourself, your young adults for gods sake start acting like it.

Agreed. Apprenticeships are far more worthy than degrees, for many people. Of course you need degrees for people like doctors, etc, but the idea that the 'average' person needs a degree is absurd, an apprenticeship would be far better for many people!

New Labour should not have got us into this mess, instead they should have increased the number of people doing apprenticeships. Churning out media student after media student to go on the dole while we have to encourage people to come here from abroad because the ex-media students don't want to be cleaners, was not the way forward. I think people can see that now. (Apologies for picking on media students in my example, there are even less worthy degrees out there I admit!)
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If someone charges you on a horse, would you just stand there and let them?

I'd not be part of a riot (or 'demonstration' that everyone with more than a handful of brain cells knew would turn into a riot!) in the first place!

Why do you think the charge took place?

 

[TrainBrain185]

If they're trying to get a charge of attempted murger for the guy who dropped the fire extinguisher, then I hope they will be doing the same for the police officer who hit him, if they can find out who it was.

Police have always been equipped with a Baton. The Police Officer was just just doing his job. Don't condemn the Policeman without knowing the true facts. He may have been defending himself from an assault from the Student and Mr Student come worse off? Who knows for sure? Different thing altogether from the Fire Extinguisher incident. Do you really think that Police really want to be out on a freezing cold day trying to control those pillock Students? No!!

 

[90019]

I'd not be part of a riot (or 'demonstration' that everyone with more than a handful of brain cells knew would turn into a riot!) in the first place!

Why do you think the charge took place?

Please don't dodge my questions.
Whether you'd be part of it or not is irrelevant, and isn't what I asked.


I'll try again.
If someone charges you on a horse, would you just stand there and let them?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The underlining thing in this whole thing is that the minority of people protesting really made a mess of it: their actions (as illustrated by Yorkie's (and the DM's) images) are nothing short of absolutely disgraceful, and I will say that I agree with AussieRail, apart from it would have been AK47s and grenade launchers. To be honest, the actions of those in the pictures make me which that they spend their rest of their lives in crippling debt, because, frankly, they deserve it!