RMT announce strike dates across range of TOCs and Network Rail

[Bald Rick]

TSSA have gave the 7 days legal notice to the company as they are now balloting for action,

have they? That’s not been announced.

Wrong wording on my point, should have said validated of which they mostly are, at least on Southern they are.

I think you may be revalidating some of it, given the nature of this action.

Elsewhere some TOCs are going ballistic at what is being suggested for them, still a few hurdles yet.

indeed

 

[Towers]

Then passengers will support fire and hire..

That will undoubtedly being considered by HMG.

There's also the possibility I would think of some of the same tactics used during the Southern OBS dispute reappearing, given that it was essentially a dispute with the DfT. These included banning staff from swapping shifts, and I seem to recall the withdrawal of staff parking permits and company travel passes?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Then passengers will support fire and hire..

That will undoubtedly being considered by HMG.

I'm sorry but 3 days of strikes have been announced and HMG are already considering fire and rehire. That is a ridiculous suggestion.

 

[Agent_Squash]

I'm sorry but 3 days of strikes have been announced and HMG are already considering fire and rehire. That is a ridiculous suggestion.

This is a government that sends migrants to Rwanda… not much is off limits.

 

[Wolfie]

1. how long do you genuinely believe the Gov will hold out for before public pressure and pressure from business will be too much ? How much is the city prepared to lose before a few phone calls are made to Number 11

2. I could do with the redundancy money. I'm broke from having no pay rise for the past couple of years and now being offered nothing.

3. I'm not affected by service cuts. Thats the passengers problem, not mine. I have a sports car.

Re 1: probably longer than RMT can, particularly if legislation is changed, which can be done in days.

Re 2: here is a new contract, sign or be deemed to have resigned - hire and fire - at best state minimum redundancy.

Re 3 don't bleat about the traffic!

 

[gazr]

Look on the bright side...if you think things are bad now, wait and see what happens if we end up getting a bad winter. These are going to be tough times for everyone, and personally, I don't think striking is the answer.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm sorry but 3 days of strikes have been announced and HMG are already considering fire and rehire. That is a ridiculous suggestion.

given how long this has been bubbling up for, it would be safe to assume that Government has considered every option.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Even this magnitude of strike action on the rails never happened under Mrs Thatcher IIRC, despite her unpopularity.

IIRC = 'If I recall correctly'

You forget the all out strikes in 1982 then.......

I wasn’t even born then lol.

So you're recalling stuff from before you were born?

I was at school at the time, this was the flexible rostering dispute from 1982. The ASLEF strike was open ended (none of this a day here, a day there malarkey) and went on for a couple of weeks. It stands out as the most destructive rail strike in my lifetime, although I think the most damaging of the lot was the 1955 stoppage. Not only was that a complete shutdown, but it happened at a point when car ownership and carriage of goods by road was on the cusp of taking off. The shutdown drove people to try out alternatives; it precipitated a loss in traffic that pushed BR into loss (and eventually to Beeching, route closures, thousands of job losses). Whilst the trend was inevitable, the strike didn't help.

 

[ScottGallagher]

I thought it said that Thatcher although she didn't care much for railways said 'privatisation of the railways will be the waterloo of the Conservative Government' you could say she was right when Blair got in as she didn't entertain the idea at least at the time.

 

[Wolfie]

I'm sorry but 3 days of strikes have been announced and HMG are already considering fire and rehire. That is a ridiculous suggestion.

Really? You obviously haven't worked with Cabinet Office and had visibility of the amount of contingency planning done on a vast range of issues. I have a suspicion that HMG has long been planning for this dispute.

given how long this has been bubbling up for, it would be safe to assume that Government has considered every option.

Exactly

 

[Peregrine 4903]

given how long this has been bubbling up for, it would be safe to assume that Government has considered every option.

I don't doubt that. Its just way that post was worded was like they are readly to roll it out, which is defintley ridiculous.

 

[320320]

They did. Then the Government legislated and used the Courts...

Prison officers are banned from striking under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. Section 127 of the Act states that a person will be breaking the law if they withhold their services or commit a breach of discipline.

The law was temporarily replaced in 2000 by a voluntary agreement between the government and the Prison Officers Association (POA), which ruled out strike action as a way of solving disputes.

However, after a "protest meeting" in 2016, the government responded by re-enacting the 1994 Act. In 2017 the POA was issued by the High Court with an injunction permanently banning strike action.... Google is your friend.

Be VERY careful what you wish for....

would banning railway workers from striking stop them from causing massive disruption?

Scotrail drivers refusing overtime has caused a bloodbath with the amount of cancellations to services. I’d be surprised if any government want to employ enough staff to run a 7 day railway that completely removes union leverage to cause disruption.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm sorry but 3 days of strikes have been announced and HMG are already considering fire and rehire. That is a ridiculous suggestion.

It may not be a the fore of government thinking at the moment, but they will be discussing all options. For them, and let's be honest for the top tables of the various unions, this is rapidly becoming an ideological tussle as well as industrial. Make no mistake, this is a government that might be seeing a chance to break another union in all this.

 

[Exscrew]

Surely this thread needs pausing again until further information, its just another mess of anti unionists and railway staff defending themselves.

This forum is by far one of the most poisonous ive seen recently.

 

[Wolfie]

would banning railway workers from striking stop them from causing massive disruption?

Scotrail drivers refusing overtime has caused a bloodbath with the amount of cancellations to services. I’d be surprised if any government want to employ enough staff to run a 7 day railway that completely removes union leverage to cause disruption.

You apparently assume that they would leave T&Cs alone. Any such assumption, given what has happened across the public sector, would be naive in extremis.

 

[Matt_pool]

Surely this thread needs pausing again until further information, its just another mess of anti unionists and railway staff defending themselves.

This forum is by far one of the most poisonous ive seen recently.

I got to page 4 and gave up reading anymore.

And I thought the TripAdvisor forums were bad!

 

[JonathanH]

Surely this thread needs pausing again until further information, its just another mess of anti unionists and railway staff defending themselves.

This forum is by far one of the most poisonous ive seen recently.

Maybe, but the warnings and insight in between those 'poisonous' messages might well be worth reading.

 

[Exscrew]

Maybe, but the warnings and insight in between those poisonous messages might well be worth reading.

I beg to differ
Nobody as it stands knows what is going to happen, plus i've seen numerous posts about thatcher and the miners.
Stay safe all my railway colleagues

 

[Bantamzen]

Maybe, but the warnings and insight in between those 'poisonous' messages might well be worth reading.

Indeed, the issues are not binary and nor are many people's views.

 

[ar10642]

I got to page 4 and gave up reading anymore.

And I thought the TripAdvisor forums were bad!

Yes how dare the travelling public have an opinion.

 

[320320]

You apparently assume that they would leave T&Cs alone. Any such assumption, given what has happened across the public sector, would be naive in extremis.

Are you suggesting that T&Cs could be changed to force people to work overtime in order to provide the service rather than employing enough people to do it without OT?

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Which would be illegal, as the managers haven't been balloted for a strike

Doesn't matter the right to refuse to Cross a picket line is in law the DWP can't even sanction those on benefits if they refuse to Cross a picket line at a job center

 

[Devonish]

Really? You obviously haven't worked with Cabinet Office and had visibility of the amount of contingency planning done on a vast range of issues. I have a suspicion that HMG has long been planning for this dispute.


Exactly

As someone who in a previous life was very involved in national level contingency planning, you have a naïve view of how prepared the Government are for any civil contingency situation.

 

[Killingworth]

Johnson is weaker than Mrs Thatcher was…. If he survives until the strikes have started.

That man is tenacious and is looking for a uniting cause. This may be it. The vast majority of the population does not depend on the passenger railway. We did for coal to fire our power stations. Back then the greater part of the population was united against the NUM, even some miners.

The freight railway is different and that should be HMGs priority to keep running. Those bulk loads can't be transported easily by road. There aren't enough trucks and drivers to cope with a long dispute.

Selling strikes to the public will be problematic for a heavily subsidised industry. So far Boris has been saved by things like Ukraine, but mostly the lack of an alternative strong leader. He thinks he's born to lead and is seeking popular battles to win. That way he neutralises those with ambitions to supplant him.

Breaking the last major national bastion of union power is just the sort of battle he needs. The question we'll soon see answered is if his government has prepared as well as Thatcher's and if he can hold his currently divided party together to see it through.

 

[ComUtoR]

Yes how dare the travelling public have an opinion.

I read recently that less than 2% of journeys are made by rail, the railway is becoming irrelevant, and more people are working from home. The 'public' are a teeny tiny fraction of the country. You are welcome to an opinion, but I wonder how relevant it is.

 

[Trainfan2019]

Maybe, but the warnings and insight in between those 'poisonous' messages might well be worth reading.

This is why I've read the entire thread from the start until this point.

I need to use the train to get to work so strike days will affect me. I genuinely found some informative and interesting posts in this thread about how the strike could affect signalling and engineering possessions for example. As a rail user and not a rail employee, I found this helpful as it gave a wider view of the situation.

 

[43066]

My mum and partner and many other friends etc haven't had pay rises at all or only small but hey we don't go on strike.

So because have poor Ts and Cs and lack of job security, you disagree with other workers standing up for theirs. Who exactly benefits from that?

Re 1: probably longer than RMT can, particularly if legislation is changed, which can be done in days.

Re 2: here is a new contract, sign or be deemed to have resigned - hire and fire - at best state minimum redundancy.

Re 3 don't bleat about the traffic!

Obviously fire and rehire is your favoured outcome - you say the same thing on every single thread. I happen to think it’s very unlikely for reasons previously discussed. In any case, the threat certainly isn’t an argument for doing nothing.

Good for the RMT - I hope the strike causes chaos and concentrates some minds.

 

[Wolfie]

As someone who in a previous life was very involved in national level contingency planning, you have a naïve view of how prepared the Government are for any civil contingency situation.

Interesting that you say that given that l have contributed to some of the plans (nothing to do with the railway), both civil and military.

 

[ar10642]

I read recently that less than 2% of journeys are made by rail, the railway is becoming irrelevant, and more people are working from home. The 'public' are a teeny tiny fraction of the country. You are welcome to an opinion, but I wonder how relevant it is.

Well I guess we're about to find out how true all of that is. I already know the railway doesn't care about its passengers at all from the attitudes of the staff on here. I didn't realise it was like that until I started following this forum.

 

[gazzaa2]

Johnson is weaker than Mrs Thatcher was…. If he survives until the strikes have started.

It seems conveniently timed, given it's announced the day after the no confidence vote.

Ultimately Boris will either see it as his Thatcher v Scargill moment, as a last gasp bid to get the party back on side, or he'll cave in to avoid further damage to his leadership.

He's a weak man so you don't know which he'll do, but these strikes can be used as a gift corpse for a man who likes culture war battles.