RMT announce strike dates across range of TOCs and Network Rail

[james4578]

the strikes don’t cover the period of Wimbledon.

Unless resolved more dates will be added,Wimbledon starts 27 June.

 

[duncanp]

Even this magnitude of strike action on the rails never happened under Mrs Thatcher IIRC, despite her unpopularity.

It did.

There were rail strikes in the early 1980s when absolutely nothing run on the British Rail network.

In London, these strikes coincided with action on London Transport, so that there was no public transport whatsoever in London on the affected dates.

The unions at that time were flexing their muscles to see whether Mrs Thatcher would cave in just like previous governments had done.

Mrs Thatcher didn't cave in, of course, and this is what led to the 1984/1985 miners strike.

Coming back to today, I think the RMT are trying to see whether the rail industry employers and the government are going to cave in, or whether the government is prepared to tough it out over the next few months in order to permanently weaken the rail unions.

 

[Kite159]

A significant number of Glastonbury attendees arrive on the Wednesday (the first musical acts on the smaller stages are from Thursday lunchtime). I expect that even more will now if they are considering travelling by train.

Or they will swap from using the trains to Castle Cary and instead book onto one of the Glastonbury coaches. Or they will simply fork out whatever the cost of a car parking ticket is these days and drive there.

----

My prediction, the strikes in a couple weeks time will go ahead, afterwards Boris looking to score some brownie points with the public/other tory MPs will go on the offensive with bringing in an Italian style "Min Service Requirement" or even go as far as classing railway workers as 'essential' removing the ability to strike [similar to police]

As it stands right now nothing beyond 25th June has been announced, but I imagine Smidster may feel the same way as I do, that this could potentially be industrial action that goes on every week following this first set of strikes until one side or the other eventually caves in (which would probably takes months before one side does). For me this fear comes from looking at past industrial action such as the Southern DOO dispute, where there was pretty much some form of action happening every week for the best part of a year.

Personally I won't be booking any trips for the summer months which don't use accommodation with free cancellation [or free change of dates]. That way if any more dates are announced on a weekend I've got a hotel booked somewhere I won't loss out on any money. Either booking flexible tickets for the trains or advance tickets making use of the "book with confidence" scheme

 

[pemma]

The unions at that time were flexing their muscles to see whether Mrs Thatcher would cave in just like previous governments had done.

Mrs Thatcher didn't cave in, of course, and this is what led to the 1984/1985 miners strike.

Coming back to today, I think the RMT are trying to see whether the rail industry employers and the government are going to cave in, or whether the government is prepared to tough it out over the next few months in order to permanently weaken the rail unions.

Yep. If anyone disagreed with Thatcher she would tell them why they were wrong and then stick to that. She even stuck to that when her poll tax resulted in rioting, she chose to resign rather than revise her policy.

Boris may be more likely to back down but he does have one of Thatcher's qualities in that he'll back something even if most people disagree with it.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Surely it is best to wait for actual definitive information before getting so angry and worked up? There was a lot of anger and hostility in Smidster's post for something that may not even happen.

What’s wrong with planning for the worst? It’s not like the railway or the government are going to reach a solution anytime soon.

 

[Leisurefirst]

A walkout by signallers will affect trains in Scotland.https://www.theguardian.com/busines...e-day-strike-in-june-over-possible-job-losses Whilst some hopes of settlement in Scotrail dispute could still be strike ballot there if talks break down. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61698822

Thank you.
I am trying to decide whether to buy Scottish Citylink tickets to cover my strike day journey as I have travel to get from one accommodation to another.
Unfortunately IIRC they are not refundable?

 

[Wolfie]

Will this make the Tories bring in legislation to deem ALL railway workers essential workers and remove the right to strike ? (such as for Police/Prison Officers)

If a beleaguered Government was looking for something which all Tory MPs could back....

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm due to travel on Eurostar to Paris on 21st. I presume that the strike will mean cancellations?

a few, mostly at the end of the day.

The strike timetables are pretty much finalised mostly. So definitely wont be released one day before.

they are absolutely not finalised!

One thing that is overlooked, certainly by media / general masses is the reduction.of maintenance staff at Network Rail. Less staff to safely maintain the track and signalling; therefore increasing the risk to the travelling public.

with respect, that is complete rubbish. Fewer staff maintaining kit does not mean increased risk, and that has been stated unequivocally, and publicly, by Andrew Haines.

in just about every other example of safety critical asset management there are fewer maintenance staff now than previously, and safety has improved: Power generation, aviation, chemical plants, utilities, road transport, the list goes on. The same is needed on the railway, and is entirely feasible.

But surely they would still be required to be manned by someone in instances such as urgent calls on the GSMR or the use of a SPT, no?

where there is a service, there will be a signaller.

Are Scotrail services affected on the strike days please can somebody advise?

yes

As it stands right now nothing beyond 25th June has been announced, but I imagine Smidster may feel the same way as I do, that this could potentially be industrial action that goes on every week following this first set of strikes until one side or the other eventually caves in (which would probably takes months before one side does). For me this fear comes from looking at past industrial action such as the Southern DOO dispute, where there was pretty much some form of action happening every week for the best part of a year.

usual union practuve is to use the threat of strike action to bring about a shift in the negotiating position. That takes time - there need to be talks arranged, positions considered, offered, and considered further. I would say the first week of Wimbledon looks pretty safe.

 

[duncanp]

Yep. If anyone disagreed with Thatcher she would tell them why they were wrong and then stick to that. She even stuck to that when her poll tax resulted in rioting, she chose to resign rather than revise her policy.

Boris may be more likely to back down but he does have one of Thatcher's qualities in that he'll back something even if most people disagree with it.

I can even remember the names of the union leaders at the time.

Sid Weighell of the (then) N.U.R. (National Union of Railwaymen) and Ray Buckton of ASLEF.

 

[Wolfie]

I think you're spot on. The RMT have been waiting a long time to get a national strike and now they have the opportunity. The question is how the public react - if they just shrug their shoulders and go "meh!", then the RMT can keep trying strike action and the only damage they will be doing is to themselves.

The Covid pandemic has had the huge benefit that many people are now capable of and set up to work from home. Whereas 20 years ago such action would have caused chaos with everybody piling onto the roads / buses / coaches, that won't be the case now.

I suspect that it isn't only RMT that have been waiting....

 

[nedchester]

I wasn’t even born then lol.

I was an I remember them well. 2 weeks all out strike…….in July with an NUR one in the June as well.

I can even remember the names of the union leaders at the time.

Sid Weighell of the (then) N.U.R. (National Union of Railwaymen) and Ray Buckton of ASLEF.

Yep.

 

[TrainGeekUK]

Yep. If anyone disagreed with Thatcher she would tell them why they were wrong and then stick to that. She even stuck to that when her poll tax resulted in rioting, she chose to resign rather than revise her policy.

Boris may be more likely to back down but he does have one of Thatcher's qualities in that he'll back something even if most people disagree with it.

Johnson is weaker than Mrs Thatcher was…. If he survives until the strikes have started.

 

[Magdalen Road]

I commute to work, can't WFH*, can't drive that far, a taxi would cost hundreds and coaches make me extremely travel sick.
Although I could swap around my working days, it looks like those in between the strike days will also be affected.
I work in healthcare, so if I don't go to work there are consequences for others as well as me. There is not somewhere local that I can work.
So alternatives are:
1. pay for a hotel and stay on location for several days - not great and doesn't help if the strikes are ongoing because I can't afford to do that more than once
2. take unpaid leave and see if a local colleague can cover - see above
3. make up the days at some other point (but see above re the work needing to be done)
4. take annual leave - see 1 and 2


*really really can't - it is not permitted due to confidentiality

As a member of a union, I understand that RMT members have the right to strike. As someone who is facing hours of delays, significant additional costs (whether loss of earnings or paying for hotels), and knock on effects to the service I'm trying to provide, sorry this member of the public is pretty cheesed off right now.

 

[Wolfie]

Disrupting events is the point.

They are hoping to force the government into capitulation.
I think its a terrible plan but that appears to be the plan

Well if that is their plan it seems reasonable for HMG to seek to break them in response.

 

[duncanp]

I commute to work, can't WFH*, can't drive that far, a taxi would cost hundreds and coaches make me extremely travel sick.
Although I could swap around my working days, it looks like those in between the strike days will also be affected.
I work in healthcare, so if I don't go to work there are consequences for others as well as me. There is not somewhere local that I can work.
So alternatives are:
1. pay for a hotel and stay on location for several days - not great and doesn't help if the strikes are ongoing because I can't afford to do that more than once
2. take unpaid leave and see if a local colleague can cover - see above
3. make up the days at some other point (but see above re the work needing to be done)
4. take annual leave - see 1 and 2


*really really can't - it is not permitted due to confidentiality

As a member of a union, I understand that RMT members have the right to strike. As someone who is facing hours of delays, significant additional costs (whether loss of earnings or paying for hotels), and knock on effects to the service I'm trying to provide, sorry this member of the public is pretty cheesed off right now.

Have you tried asking your colleagues at work, some of whom may live close to your place of work, whether they can put you up on the affected dates?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

they are absolutely not finalised!

Wrong wording on my point, should have said validated of which they mostly are, at least on Southern they are.

 

[Wolfie]

Johnson is weaker than Mrs Thatcher was…. If he survives until the strikes have started.

True enough... Look at any likely successors though, on this issue they will be no different.

 

[nedchester]

True enough... Look at any likely successors though, on this issue they will be no different.

A very good point.

A new broom might want to make their mark…….

 

[Robertj21a]

Will this make the Tories bring in legislation to deem ALL railway workers essential workers and remove the right to strike ? (such as for Police/Prison Officers)

It's certainly getting very close. Either that or fully nationalise the whole railway system.
Dangerous times for the RMT.

 

[Starmill]

There will be a few more trains running than you are suggesting. Still not many though.

And tiocs like London Overground certainly aren't running a full service or anything near a full service.

I never suggested they'd be running a full service though. Only that they would run some services when and where they have a route.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I never suggested they'd be running a full service though. Only that they would run some services when and where they have a route.

Realised after i sent the message I misread your post, so sorry about that.

 

[Wolfie]

Prison officers can, and have gone on strike.

Governor grades worked, cons under lock up as staffing dropped below minimum as you’d expect.

They did. Then the Government legislated and used the Courts...

Prison officers are banned from striking under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. Section 127 of the Act states that a person will be breaking the law if they withhold their services or commit a breach of discipline.

The law was temporarily replaced in 2000 by a voluntary agreement between the government and the Prison Officers Association (POA), which ruled out strike action as a way of solving disputes.

However, after a "protest meeting" in 2016, the government responded by re-enacting the 1994 Act. In 2017 the POA was issued by the High Court with an injunction permanently banning strike action.... Google is your friend.

Be VERY careful what you wish for....

 

[The Planner]

Wrong wording on my point, should have said validated of which they mostly are, at least on Southern they are.

Elsewhere some TOCs are going ballistic at what is being suggested for them, still a few hurdles yet.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Elsewhere some TOCs are going ballistic at what is being suggested for them, still a few hurdles yet.

I know, big issue with the services in the cut off period amongst other things.

Hopefully it all gets sorted this week.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Personally I won't be booking any trips for the summer months which don't use accommodation with free cancellation [or free change of dates]. That way if any more dates are announced on a weekend I've got a hotel booked somewhere I won't loss out on any money. Either booking flexible tickets for the trains or advance tickets making use of the "book with confidence" scheme

That's understandable. I've already committed to a contingency for my main trip in August to the Norfolk/Suffolk coast of using National Express between Cambridge and Norwich instead of my normal choice of the GA Stansted-Norwich services. It may be jumping the gun a bit, but I'd rather secure the contingency for the low price it is now than find a strike does happen over that period and tickets for National Express have sky-rocketed in price in the mean time (the good thing is that the NX service only takes 15 minutes longer than the GA service, pending traffic conditions).

Sadly there's no contingencies I can come up with for helping get to and from work during strike action, other than doing a 15-mile round walk each day. Buses don't run early enough or continue late enough either side of my shifts (or not at all on Sundays), and getting a taxi would wipe out a large portion of my daily wages.

 

[ar10642]

Well if that is their plan it seems reasonable for HMG to seek to break them in response.

And with a majority of 80 it should be very easy to do so. I don't think many of the public will be that sad about it.

 

[Wolfie]

Staff will just work more overtime to make it back.

Not if HMT blocks overtime they won't!

 

[Magdalen Road]

Have you tried asking your colleagues at work, some of whom may live close to your place of work, whether they can put you up on the affected dates?

they don't live that close either - I commute into London so we're all going to have a problem. I just happen to commute the furthest.
The 21st is going to cause chaos with the tube strike as well. But hey, I'm sure the patients won't mind waiting!

 

[gordonthemoron]

The government doesn’t care, and the travelling public will blame the union, massive own goal

 

[Wolfie]

They have passengers over a barrel. People need to use the trains to get to work/holidays. Just like planes. If they mess you about you cant boycott them, you still pay to use the service as thats the only way to travel

Then passengers will support fire and hire..

That will undoubtedly being considered by HMG.