RMT announce strike dates across range of TOCs and Network Rail

[Glasgowbusguy]

There is alot more than the RMT out for blood , some unions are going loud and public with strikes , others like USDAW (union of shop , distribution and allied workers ) are having discreet conversations . With big employers in there sectors and are winning pay rises and improved T&C (Inc several large supermarkets scraping productivity targets) as no one wants to loss there staff to the competition.

 

[Bald Rick]

It seems conveniently timed, given it's announced the day after the no confidence vote.

In this case it is coincidental, as the RMT executive committee met today in a planned session.

If anything, one imagines that RMT would have preferred to announce at another time, to maximise publicity.

 

[Facing Back]

As someone who in a previous life was very involved in national level contingency planning, you have a naïve view of how prepared the Government are for any civil contingency situation.

My experience has been different if it is a subject the Cabinet Office chooses to care about. I would be astonished if all of the scenarios discussed here haven't been considered in some detail bearing in mind how long this is been on the cards and how disruptive it could be if it continues for an extended period.

How practical or politically attractive any potential solutions are is a different matter.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

given how long this has been bubbling up for, it would be safe to assume that Government has considered every option.

they won't go down fire and rehire after the P&O debacle that would provoke a possible national strike by many unions

 

[Fokx]

I already know the railway doesn't care about its passengers at all from the attitudes of the staff on here. I didn't realise it was like that until I started following this forum.

Checkout staff at the supermarket don’t care if you shop at Tesco or not.
The member of staff at the restaurant telling you to ‘have a nice day’ doesn’t really care if you do.
The manager at the clothes shop doesn’t really care if you won’t shop there again because you never got the refund on that top you didn’t like.

It’s not that the employees on the railway don’t care about their passengers, it’s quite simply that they care more about being able to financially survive and retain their own employment. This isn’t unique to the railway, I can’t think of a single job I’ve had where I’ve not been selfish and thought about my own needs before that of others, and I can’t think of anyone that I know in any profession who wouldn’t either?

 

[Horizon22]

Elsewhere some TOCs are going ballistic at what is being suggested for them, still a few hurdles yet.

Indeed. Some of the plans also make it significantly harder to run a decent service on the non-strike days to take into account all the stock requirements / displacements and crew issues. The short-term planners thought they'd finally have had a rest after years of Covid!

 

[Thermal]

My mum and partner and many other friends etc haven't had pay rises at all or only small but hey we don't go on strike

I keep reading arguments along the line of this, but statistically it simply isn't true. The office of national statistics own figures show that since my TOC's last pay deal, the median PAYE wage has risen by 15%.

That is, the average employee, in the most average job possible has had a 15% rise, with 50% of all UK workers receiving more than 15% over this time. Despite this relative wage cut, the TOC are refusing to even table an offer, not ever 1%. What other options are staff realistically left with?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The short-term planners thought they'd finally have had a rest after years of Covid!

Also worth noting at some TOCs although not many these days the planners are Clerical Grades and whilst that mostly means TSSA some are RMT members, thus means the plans might have to be quite simple to be realistic.

 

[320320]

Well I guess we're about to find out how true all of that is. I already know the railway doesn't care about its passengers at all from the attitudes of the staff on here. I didn't realise it was like that until I started following this forum.

That works both ways though. The majority of passengers on here would happily see railway staff forced onto zero hour contracts, with the unions smashed.

Don’t be surprised that people are more concerned about their own situation than yours.

 

[Exscrew]

How about you say race to the bottom again, not heard that

Like the prison staff and police which now struggle to recruit and retain staff.

All these jobs have been shafted over the years under the guise of "modernisation" its time everyone fights for a better deal

 

[Horizon22]

Also worth noting at some TOCs although not many these days the planners are Clerical Grades and whilst that mostly means TSSA some are RMT members, thus means the plans might have to be quite simple to be realistic.

That is of course true; I've generally seen less "fervour" from clerical and office roles to strike though, although they are perfectly entitled too should they be union members. Most control roles tend to be in TSSA - if indeed in any Union at all.

 

[nedchester]

they won't go down fire and rehire after the P&O debacle that would provoke a possible national strike by many unions

The P&O was fire and no hire and without notice.

Companies like BA and British Gas have more recently done fire and rehire having offered packages first. The same could happen on the railways if it got nasty.

 

[Wolfie]

My experience has been different if it is a subject the Cabinet Office chooses to care about. I would be astonished if all of the scenarios discussed here haven't been considered in some detail bearing in mind how long this is been on the cards and how disruptive it could be if it continues for an extended period.

How practical or politically attractive any potential solutions are is a different matter.

Agreed.

 

[91101]

Checkout staff at the supermarket don’t care if you shop at Tesco or not.
The member of staff at the restaurant telling you to ‘have a nice day’ doesn’t really care if you do.
The manager at the clothes shop doesn’t really care if you won’t shop there again because you never got the refund on that top you didn’t like.

It’s not that the employees on the railway don’t care about their passengers, it’s quite simply that they care more about being able to financially survive and retain their own employment. This isn’t unique to the railway, I can’t think of a single job I’ve had where I’ve not been selfish and thought about my own needs before that of others, and I can’t think of anyone that I know in any profession who wouldn’t either?

Sorry Fokx, but that doesn't sit quite right with me, you're right I think that some front facing customer service staff can be apathetic, especially in Tesco's or F&B staff in a restaurant, but the railway, and for the vast majority of jobs on the railway these are not low paying, basic entry roles. A quick glance, LNER are recruiting for a chef based at Edinburgh on £28k whilst similar roles (a quick search on Reed) would indicate the market rate for similar role would be around £22-23k in Edinburgh. Similarly, front line station or on board vacancies normally in this industry command more than the market average, and that means, generally you get a good pool of people to pick from, and therefore have some extremely hard working front line colleagues who are passionate about and enjoy their roles and understand and are passionate about the link between good customer service and the longevity of the industry!

 

[nedchester]

Checkout staff at the supermarket don’t care if you shop at Tesco or not.
The member of staff at the restaurant telling you to ‘have a nice day’ doesn’t really care if you do.
The manager at the clothes shop doesn’t really care if you won’t shop there again because you never got the refund on that top you didn’t like.

It’s not that the employees on the railway don’t care about their passengers, it’s quite simply that they care more about being able to financially survive and retain their own employment. This isn’t unique to the railway, I can’t think of a single job I’ve had where I’ve not been selfish and thought about my own needs before that of others, and I can’t think of anyone that I know in any profession who wouldn’t either?

Doctors, teachers, nurses, ambulance staff……..

 

[ar10642]

That works both ways though. The majority of passengers on here would happily see railway staff forced onto zero hour contracts, with the unions smashed.

Don’t be surprised that people are more concerned about their own situation than yours.

I don't want that, I'd be happy for rail staff to get a pay rise. I also want to be able to use the railway so that I don't have to do lengthy drives to get to work and back when I go to the office. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the service to be something you can rely on. This is something that threatens to go on for a long time and it looks like everyone is going to be worse off at the end.

 

[Wolfie]

they won't go down fire and rehire after the P&O debacle that would provoke a possible national strike by many unions

Really? Such strikes would be illegal and the Courts would impose eye-watering fines on the TUs and rapidly bankrupt them. Their officials would face jail too for contempt of Court. For context in 2020 the Prison Officers Association was fined £210k for a one day illegal strike.

 

[91101]

That works both ways though. The majority of passengers on here would happily see railway staff forced onto zero hour contracts, with the unions smashed.

The problem is you are very correct with this statement - so much so the French got so sick of RAPT going on strike they ended up converting lines to full automation! Mr Intel and Mrs AMD don't go on strike apparently!

 

[Exscrew]

Really? Such strikes would be illegal and the Courts would impose eye-watering fines on the TUs and rapidly bankrupt them. Their officials would face jail too for contempt of Court. For context in 2019 the Prison Officers Association was fined £219k for a one day illegal strike.

Why would such strikes be illegal?
British gas went on strike over the sign or sack debacle

 

[Fokx]

Doctors, teachers, nurses, ambulance staff……..

You’ve listed roles we have a chronic national shortage of because they don’t feel appreciated, no longer get paid to train at university level, earn peanuts, and are left to pick up the pieces of years of underfunding. (Mirroring exactly what the RMT are trying to prevent happing to the industry currently)

There’s recently been a large number of staff who have left the NHS because of how they were treated during the mess of Covid-19. Was that selfish? Yes. Do I support them in doing so? Absolutely!

 

[Wolfie]

Why would such strikes be illegal?
British gas went on strike over the sign or sack debacle

The post l replied to suggested that lots of unions would strike. Strikes by any union not directly involved in a dispute have been illegal since Margaret Thatcher's time.

I agree British Gas went on strike. I hate fire and hire as a concept and oppose it being used, despite what some on here seem to believe. I am, though, cynical enough to think that the Tories blocked attempts to make the practice illegal for a reason. That is the reason why l speculate that it could be a response.

 

[Mike395]

Hi everyone! As this thread is starting to go round in circles a tad again, I'm locking this for now.

Just so you all know - we're having discussions internally about how we're going to manage discussion on this particular strike moving forward, as we realise having no discussion at all on it just isn't realistic with the scale of the potential disruption, and with it being potentially quite a fast-developing situation over the next days and weeks. Thanks for your patience whilst we work out the specifics, but there will be a place to discuss this one, we just likely need to put together some guidelines as to what's going to be in and out of scope for it.