RMT dispute on Merseyrail

[Dave1987]

Sorry, that's a crazy over-reaction. Do you think other operations in the UK, or abroad, employ extra staff on every train 'just in case' ?

Speaks someone who clearly never uses late night trains!

 

[trainophile]

How can the various bylaws be enforced if there's no figure of authority to deal with feet-on-seats, alcohol or smoking? Never mind antisocial behaviour.

 

[urbophile]

Recent posts make Merseyrail sound like a war zone - I can only be grateful that I don't live there!

As a regular user, though rarely at night, this is far from the case. When I have used the trains late at night, the problem is not large numbers of antisocial characters, but the often sparsely populated carriages, so that on the (rare) occasion of problematic behaviour one feels more vulnerable than one would as part of a crowd.

But Liverpool generally, and Merseyrail in particular, is far from the lawless zone of criminality that is depicted in the media.

 

[Goldfish62]

Recent posts make Merseyrail sound like a war zone - I can only be grateful that I don't live there!

I've never use Merseyrail and based on recent posts about how dangerous it apparently is, I'm surprised that anyone does. Perhaps the whole network should just be closed and replace with a network of bus services and light rail.

 

[northwichcat]

How can the various bylaws be enforced if there's no figure of authority to deal with feet-on-seats, alcohol or smoking? Never mind antisocial behaviour.

How does it work on Metrolink? Incidentally Metrolink by-laws don't even allow you to take hot coffee on board.

 

[northwichcat]

I've never use Merseyrail and based on recent posts about how dangerous it apparently is, I'm surprised that anyone does. Perhaps the whole network should just be closed and replace with a network of bus services and light rail.

That's almost the equivalent of saying because there's some problems on night buses in London, all bus routes should be permanently be suspended in London. Most Merseyrail stations are staffed from first to last train, so are you saying people would be safer at unstaffed bus shelters than at staffed stations?

 

[Moonshot]

So then, police on every train instead of a guard. Why not army reservists with rifles?

I think you misunderstand the point I m making......as it stands now there is a guard on every train. A transfer of labour to the BTP having a prescence on every train instead of a guard would significantly reduce the amount of anti social behaviour.

 

[Moonshot]

How can the various bylaws be enforced if there's no figure of authority to deal with feet-on-seats, alcohol or smoking? Never mind antisocial behaviour.

A point I have just made in the above post.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Recent posts make Merseyrail sound like a war zone - I can only be grateful that I don't live there!

It's really not.

 

[Moonshot]

It's really not.

It isnt......it probably suffers from the same amount of anti social behaviour as anywhere else.

 

[Camden]

I've never use Merseyrail and based on recent posts about how dangerous it apparently is, I'm surprised that anyone does. Perhaps the whole network should just be closed and replace with a network of bus services and light rail.

As someone who has used it day and night, I can categorically say that these days it's one of the safest methods of transport I've ever been on.

Anyone pretending otherwise either has a strange idea of danger or is simply talking rot for their own ends.

 

[b2311e]

Recent posts make Merseyrail sound like a war zone - I can only be grateful that I don't live there!

Like anything 99.9% of the time, there's no problem

Obviously there will always be idiots, more of them on the last services of Saturday evenings for example

During daytime services I would say I've never felt unsafe, and I've used the network all my life

 

[313103]

I think you misunderstand the point I m making......as it stands now there is a guard on every train. A transfer of labour to the BTP having a prescence on every train instead of a guard would significantly reduce the amount of anti social behaviour.

You have forgotten one important thing though, well two Cost and whose budget will it come out of BTP therefore government money, Whoever has the company therefore reducing the profit it can make and therefore costing the fare paying public even more, or the organisation in Liverpool who specifically runs transport (not sure who that is as I don't live in that part of the country). Not forgetting the whole idea behind it is to reduce staffing levels now and in the future.

 

[Moonshot]

You have forgotten one important thing though, well two Cost and whose budget will it come out of BTP therefore government money, Whoever has the company therefore reducing the profit it can make and therefore costing the fare paying public even more, or the organisation in Liverpool who specifically runs transport (not sure who that is as I don't live in that part of the country). Not forgetting the whole idea behind it is to reduce staffing levels now and in the future.

I havent forgotten anything......i was simply making the point that BTP could substitute for guards. This would guarentee 2 staff on a train 1 of which would be solely responsible for the safety of the train itself ( bearing in mind the new trains coming along ) , and the other the passengers. Many people on here complain about the lack of Police numbers in general.

 

[313103]

I havent forgotten anything......i was simply making the point that BTP could substitute for guards. This would guarentee 2 staff on a train 1 of which would be solely responsible for the safety of the train itself ( bearing in mind the new trains coming along ) , and the other the passengers. Many people on here complain about the lack of Police numbers in general.

This scenario is only hypothetical because no company or organisation would want to get rid of one group of employees in exchange for the same amount of another group of employees.

The reduction in Police throughout the country is down to exactly the same reason why DAFT want to get rid of Guards and i need not tell you what that is.

 

[trainophile]

I've never noticed an alarm bell to call the driver/get the train stopped on a Merseyrail train. Maybe they are there and I just haven't noticed, but wondering whether the new trains will be equipped with such.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've never noticed an alarm bell to call the driver/get the train stopped on a Merseyrail train. Maybe they are there and I just haven't noticed, but wondering whether the new trains will be equipped with such.

Above the doors. All trains have them, they are a legal requirement.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I've never noticed an alarm bell to call the driver/get the train stopped on a Merseyrail train. Maybe they are there and I just haven't noticed, but wondering whether the new trains will be equipped with such.

On older stock the "Passcomm" only stops the train, the driver and/or guard then was to walk through the train looking at each chain or lever to identify which one was used to activate the "Passcomm". On newer trains the driver can override the braking if it means the train stopping in an unsafe/unsuitable location and they can also talk with the person who activated the "Passcomm" and I believe that on any units with a TMS it shows the locating on the TMS

 

[trainophile]

Thanks for clarifying both of you. Reason for asking is if they do become single crew trains it would be one course of action if serious trouble did break out, to the extent that people were in danger of getting injured.

 

[weastebusdepot]

On older stock the "Passcomm" only stops the train, the driver and/or guard then was to walk through the train looking at each chain or lever to identify which one was used to activate the "Passcomm". On newer trains the driver can override the braking if it means the train stopping in an unsafe/unsuitable location and they can also talk with the person who activated the "Passcomm" and I believe that on any units with a TMS it shows the locating on the TMS

On a 507/508 unit, pressing the passcomm causes the external light on the carriage to illuminate. So the driver can see by sticking their head out of the cab window on which carriage it has been activated. That is unless the train has been stopped on a bend, in which case the guard would have to check the opposite side from the rear cab window.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

On a 507/508 unit, pressing the passcomm causes the external light on the carriage to illuminate. So the driver can see by sticking their head out of the cab window on which carriage it has been activated. That is unless the train has been stopped on a bend, in which case the guard would have to check the opposite side from the rear cab window.

Is that functionality unique to MerseyRail?

 

[Goldfish62]

That's almost the equivalent of saying because there's some problems on night buses in London, all bus routes should be permanently be suspended in London. Most Merseyrail stations are staffed from first to last train, so are you saying people would be safer at unstaffed bus shelters than at staffed stations?

Obviously not, I'm just frustrated at the over-the-top views about how dangerous the network allegedly is. If there is a continued impasse in the dispute then closure would be an option with replacement as I've outlined.

 

[387star]

Getting closer to a national strike with greater anglia being balloted

 

[northwichcat]

New strikes announced for 1st and 4th September.

 

[danbarnstall]

Obviously not, I'm just frustrated at the over-the-top views about how dangerous the network allegedly is. If there is a continued impasse in the dispute then closure would be an option with replacement as I've outlined.

I was talking to two BTP officers last night who said within the last few weeks on the Hunts Cross to Southport line alone there has been 4 serious incidents involving guards/drivers. 2 Guards have lost teeth in separate attacks, a driver has also been punched and a female guard sexually assaulted. Managed to find evidence of two incidents.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...ail-staff-member-allegedly-assaulted-13487864

http://www.southportvisiter.co.uk/n...cs/merseyrail-guard-lost-tooth-after-13457090

I often work until later hours so my commute home is probably a little different to most. I have certainly noticed a recent increase of idiots on that line.

 

[northwichcat]

I was talking to two BTP officers last night who said within the last few weeks on the Hunts Cross to Southport line alone there has been 4 serious incidents involving guards/drivers. 2 Guards have lost teeth in separate attacks, a driver has also been punched and a female guard sexually assaulted. Managed to find evidence of two incidents.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...ail-staff-member-allegedly-assaulted-13487864

http://www.southportvisiter.co.uk/n...cs/merseyrail-guard-lost-tooth-after-13457090

I often work until later hours so my commute home is probably a little different to most. I have certainly noticed a recent increase of idiots on that line.

It seems the school holidays are at least partly to blame. (The guard losing teeth story mentions teenagers on a Thursday at 2.50pm.)

 

[footprints]

New strikes announced for 1st and 4th September.

3rd September as well.

 

[M28361M]

The 3rd coincides with another major event - the last day of the Fusion Festival at Otterspool Promenade, near Aigburth station. Last year lots of extra trains were run for it.

Another consequence of the dispute is that Merseyrail have quietly dropped the summer Sunday service on the Southport line. Normally from mid June to mid September the Sunday service between Liverpool and Southport is increased to every 15 minutes. This year, the 30 minute frequency has remained in place.

It was a last minute change because the printed timetables went out showing the 4tph frequency and Real Time Trains is showing lots of planned cancellations for Sunday. An announcement slipped out on Merseyrail's website didn't explain the reason. However Merseyrail confirmed on Twitter yesterday, in response to a complaint, that this is due to the overtime ban:

Hi Paul really sorry for the delay in getting back to you. The following explains the timetable change: This relates to(1)^DM

the ongoing union dispute and overtime ban, so fewer staff available. I am sorry to see the website hasn't updated. (2)^DM

On some really busy Sundays Merseyrail have managed to reinstate some of the cancelled trains, but not an ideal situation for people heading to Southport for the day.

 

[185143]

The 3rd coincides with another major event - the last day of the Fusion Festival at Otterspool Promenade, near Aigburth station. Last year lots of extra trains were run for it.

Another consequence of the dispute is that Merseyrail have quietly dropped the summer Sunday service on the Southport line. Normally from mid June to mid September the Sunday service between Liverpool and Southport is increased to every 15 minutes. This year, the 30 minute frequency has remained in place.

It was a last minute change because the printed timetables went out showing the 4tph frequency and Real Time Trains is showing lots of planned cancellations for Sunday. An announcement slipped out on Merseyrail's website didn't explain the reason. However Merseyrail confirmed on Twitter yesterday, in response to a complaint, that this is due to the overtime ban:





On some really busy Sundays Merseyrail have managed to reinstate some of the cancelled trains, but not an ideal situation for people heading to Southport for the day.

I KNEW I wasn't imagining the sunday 15 minutely Southports!

I'd rather have the extra trains of course-but if not having them helps the fight to keep the Safety Critical Guard, then I'd rather wait an extra 15 minutes!

 

[8A Rail]

Next strike - two weeks later may be? Southport Air Show? Just speculation on my part!