Accept the 5% drop the action enter into separate negotiations with the TOCs and if they don't go well then enter into a new TOC level dispute.... Or am I missing something?
The document seemed to make that difficult. It suggested that if there were no agreement on specifics at local level then issues would have to be escalated to a two stage multi party process known as AOD, avoidance of dispute. By its name you can gather that that would prevent further industrial action at that stage of disagreement. At first a local and then if necessary a national AOD group, it would have to be assessed whether the proposed reforms which couldn't be agreed on fall within the three agreed principles of reform in the document. Obviously it is likely their reforms would indeed fall within the principles on the document as it included (very nearly all) the previous terms and conditions changes.
So this technically would prevent further action per the agreement. If there were still disagreement after that then it says the RMT can re-ballot (which we can gather would be for local action) but it suggests after a cooling off period of 2 weeks the operators can deem that collective bargaining had been exhausted and implement the changes anyway.
So by the time the RMT could begin local balloting, after 2 weeks of starting the process the operator could force through the changes regardless.
Hardly free and open negotiation is it?
But they are now saying that you cannot have any industrial action in respect of Stage 2. But you don't know what the local level negotiations are going to involve yet. So basically they are now saying you have to accept whatever is proposed at Stage 2, even if it is terrible, as you cannot hold any further industrial action about it, even though you don't know what you are agreeing to yet.
So basically "You can't hold any action of any sort about something we haven't given you details about yet".
We do know what they would be agreeing to. Meaningful discussions on the reforms which fall within the 3 principles in the document. Basically everything they proposed on the last two offers expect for two redactions, one being the review of BR terms of service.
Nearly all the reforms are still proposed as far as I can see. You would have expected the govt to remove move a lot more than they have given the time and impact of the industrial action tbh.
Are the RDG saying no action over stage 2? That's not the impression I've got, the impression I've got is they've said no action over the stage that's agreed on, but I'm happy to be corrected if this isn't the case.
The document as far as I can see says that if there were disagreement over parts of stage two then the RMT would have to enter into an AOD, avoidance of dispute process. Doesn't sound like they can just open another dispute easily at that stage. The area of disagreement would then have to be judged against the three principles of reform in the document. Only then if further disagreement would the RMT re-ballot for further action but by then presumably they could be pushing the time limit of 3 months for the talks to conclude when after a 2 week colling off period the reforms can be implemented and the stage two pay rise and redundancy guarantees withdrawn.
The RMT appear to have taken the position that cannot move onto agreeing part 2 unless we (RMT) keep a strike option open, although their phrasing seems to leave it open regarding if agreeing part 1 is conditional on the outcome of part 2 negotiations concluding.
Unless I'm missing something then of a union were to enter into a normal period of collective bargaining on changes at local level you'd retain an overall right to ballot for industrial action if and when they saw fit. This document suggested that they wouldn't simply do that and would have to enter into an AOD avoidance of dispute process where the areas of disagree would be compared to the principles reforms suggested in this document to establish whether they are to be agreed.
It doesn't mean that. The RMT are still free to ballot for industrial action if or when the second phase of negotiations collapses.
Only once they have gone through the AOD avoidance of dispute process and after the disagreed changes are compared against the principles of reform suggested in the document.
I understand…but surely we should be entering stage 2 in the hope of reaching an agreement in the 3 month company council negotiations period. If no agreement can be made, then seek a renewed mandate for industrial action, as the pay offer document states.
What is wrong with that position? What do we lose by not following this arrangement?
Because after 3 months the document stated that there would be a 2 week cooling off period following any disagreement, after which it could be deemed that collective bargaining had been exhausted and the reforms under disagreement implemented anyway with the phase 2 pay offer and protection's withdrawn.
So presumably the RMT would be arranging for ballot papers to be mailed out for a month of ballot, and after 2 weeks the changes could be forced through regardless while the RMT are still awaiting returned ballot papers.
The deal is exactly the same as before.
If we accept stage one, then no industrial action until negotiations at company council level during stage 2 have been exhausted.
It’s literally the exact same offer.
Seems very similar to the last unpopular pay offer except that that offered a minimum of a total of 9 percent in exchange for the reforms. This appears to offer 5 percent on the condition that the union enters meaningful discussions on implementation of their specified reforms without being allowed to hold industrial action unless a further avoidance of dispute process has been exhausted and a re-ballot held all against a 3 month clock where after that had ended, and a further 2 weeks had passed, the changes can be implemented anyway and phase 2 pay offer withdrawn.
It's simply not free negotiation under phase 2 imo.
