Rossobus

[158756]

I assume all the Rochdale or Bury buses will have the same branding, like in Keighley, rather than having different buses for routes requiring only a single bus. I think all Rosso's commercial routes have their own branding now, so any issues of the wrong branded bus turning up already exist now before these proposed changes.

If it is indeed Transdev who have got these routes (is there confirmation of this anywhere?), they already operate most, except the 434,451 and 462 which are MCT.

 

[Stan Drews]

Many of these local Bury and Rochdale tendered routes are already interworked, and as quite a few are only a handful of trips inbetween school times, I’d doubt any individual routes would get a specific brand name.

 

[RustySpoons]

If they're interworked services i can see another Stenning inspired generic brand being created for each set of services. As previously mentioned though when a branded bus isn't available and an off brand bus appears it does confuse some passengers - and yes most passengers are just catch the first bus that turns up, but this isn't usually the case for tendered services. The fact that Rosso has quite a few liveries (and even their own variation of PotN) doesn't really help.

Having said that, if it gets more people on buses then we can't really complain, but it'll be easy to have to opposite effect if they don't get it right from the get go. Folk don't tend to like a change of operator, let alone a whole new brand and route numbers.

 

[carlberry]

Cant see the locals being happy. Many weren't happy after Stagecoach renumbered the services in Wigan..

You mean the 99% of users who are already using the buses, want to keep on using the buses and would prefer it if some idiot didn't keep on changing things just to confuse them. Still, it keeps the design agencies happy!

 

[Stan Drews]

You mean the 99% of users who are already using the buses, want to keep on using the buses and would prefer it if some idiot didn't keep on changing things just to confuse them. Still, it keeps the design agencies happy!

I think you may have missed the whole point of branding, as it is generally more about getting non-users to become users!

 

[carlberry]

I think you may have missed the whole point of branding, as it is generally more about getting non-users to become users!

The comment wasn't about branding, it was the random changing of route numbers for no purpose. Branding is a separate issue.

 

[Stan Drews]

The comment wasn't about branding, it was the random changing of route numbers for no purpose. Branding is a separate issue.

Except, that if the plan is for a “Keighley Jets” style brand, then the change of route numbers is very much part of the branding.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Guess the renumbering depends on what's actually happening.

I'm with Carl in that I hate it when bus services are arbitrarily renumbered because of some OCD inspired tidying up or that it's some other clever idea; the Bath city services 10, 13 and 14 were renumbered to 1,3 and 4 without little change to route, branding, or anything else so why bother?

However, if the change is part of a wider relaunch with improved branding and marketing (a la Keighley) then that makes sense!

Having said that, if it gets more people on buses then we can't really complain, but it'll be easy to have to opposite effect if they don't get it right from the get go. Folk don't tend to like a change of operator, let alone a whole new brand and route numbers.

I disagree (to an extent). Any change, if badly handled, will annoy folk. However, we've seen plenty of instances where branding works though you have to get the product right in the first place and so often branding is accompanied with other changes such as service enhancements, refurbished or new vehicles with extras such as USBs and wifi.

 

[Deerfold]

Guess the renumbering depends on what's actually happening.

I'm with Carl in that I hate it when bus services are arbitrarily renumbered because of some OCD inspired tidying up or that it's some other clever idea; the Bath city services 10, 13 and 14 were renumbered to 1,3 and 4 without little change to route, branding, or anything else so why bother?

However, if the change is part of a wider relaunch with improved branding and marketing (a la Keighley) then that makes sense!

However the renumbering in Keighley was some time before any improvements to the buses used. There have also only been cuts to the services rather than improvements. Keighley has also randomly renumbered the 762 as the 62 (having already simplified from 762/765), the 760 as the 60 with no improvements to vehicles at the time. I used to know where all the buses in Keighley went when they were 7xx but have to look up all the K services now. The information in the bus station and bus stops about routes taken is minimal.
There was also the bizarre renumbering of the 696/697/698 as 69/67/68 not long before withdrawing the 68 and 69.

 

[Andyh82]

However the renumbering in Keighley was some time before any improvements to the buses used. There have also only been cuts to the services rather than improvements. Keighley has also randomly renumbered the 762 as the 62 (having already simplified from 762/765), the 760 as the 60 with no improvements to vehicles at the time. I used to know where all the buses in Keighley went when they were 7xx but have to look up all the K services now. The information in the bus station and bus stops about routes taken is minimal.
There was also the bizarre renumbering of the 696/697/698 as 69/67/68 not long before withdrawing the 68 and 69.

He is mainly talking about the Keighley locals which went from being a random selection of numbers in the 700s to the K1, K2, K3.... all branded as Keighley Jets with brand new buses. Not the interurbans, which in the case of Rosso have already been relaunched.

 

[Deerfold]

He is mainly talking about the Keighley locals which went from being a random selection of numbers in the 700s to the K1, K2, K3.... all branded as Keighley Jets with brand new buses. Not the interurbans, which in the case of Rosso have already been relaunched.

I did mention the K series - and mentioned that the branding and new buses did not happen at the same time as the renumbering.

They weren't a completely random series. They were what remained of the 701-719 services - holes were created where services have been withdrawn (or simplified into 1 instead of 2 similar routes). The only one surviving outside this range is the 713 which was partly replicated by the tendered 903 which is the only surviving weekday service in Keighley that Transdev don't run.

 

[SCH117X]

Suspect its pretty certain any renumbering is going to in advance of any new buses given the timescale involved and its probably tied up with some new ticketing as it will be simpler to refer to a group of services under a common letter, probably B-zone and R-zone akin to Keighley s K-zone

 

[Alexbus12]

Suspect its pretty certain any renumbering is going to in advance of any new buses given the timescale involved and its probably tied up with some new ticketing as it will be simpler to refer to a group of services under a common letter, probably B-zone and R-zone akin to Keighley s K-zone

Maybe simpler for the company, certainly isn't for passengers

 

[geoffk]

I know what you mean, running tenders with a relaunch and special branding to try and increase usage is so bad, they should just run a random selection of plain white Solos and just see out the contract, like is the way with most tendered services.

I don't like route branding or gimmicks. I would prefer to see a standard livery for the whole fleet. Also all this route renumbering will just cause confusion. The Todmorden - Bacup -Rawtenstall service has had about seven different numbers in the last 16 years.

 

[RustySpoons]

Maybe simpler for the company, certainly isn't for passengers

Especially when the same company has the monopoly in the area and creates all these 'amazing' fare deal that in reality are anything but...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Keighley has also randomly renumbered the 762 as the 62 (having already simplified from 762/765), the 760 as the 60 with no improvements to vehicles at the time.

It's that sort of pointless renumbering that does rankle with me.

Maybe simpler for the company, certainly isn't for passengers

...and yet passenger figures are increasing.

I don't like route branding or gimmicks. I would prefer to see a standard livery for the whole fleet. Also all this route renumbering will just cause confusion. The Todmorden - Bacup -Rawtenstall service has had about seven different numbers in the last 16 years.

Why do firms (across all industries) spend so much on branding? Because it works. It's not the only factor obviously - you have to get the product right in terms of reliability before anything else, comfort, speed, cost but branding does work.

Especially when the same company has the monopoly in the area and creates all these 'amazing' fare deal that in reality are anything but...

I have to say that Hornby does get a bit cloying with his amazing posts and self promotion. Then again, why would we not expect people to be positive about their business? At least they are trying to promote their business.

 

[Andyh82]

Rosso should obviously run the business like First do/did in Bury and Rochdale. When passenger numbers decline, just reduce and then withdraw the service. Don’t change anything to try to increase demand as that would annoy the current passengers.

 

[RustySpoons]

I have to say that Hornby does get a bit cloying with his amazing posts and self promotion. Then again, why would we not expect people to be positive about their business? At least they are trying to promote their business.

There isn't anything wrong with it at all. I've often said that Transdev Blazefield are one of the few companies that actually come across like they're actually trying. However when you start calling everything, even the mundane, it means nothing. 18 year old B10s too big for the local services they're now running on aren't amazing, for example.

If everything is amazing, nothing is.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There isn't anything wrong with it at all. I've often said that Transdev Blazefield are one of the few companies that actually come across like they're actually trying. However when you start calling everything, even the mundane, it means nothing. 18 year old B10s too big for the local services they're now running on aren't amazing, for example.

If everything is amazing, nothing is.

Where's the link for that?

 

[158756]

Why do firms (across all industries) spend so much on branding? Because it works. It's not the only factor obviously - you have to get the product right in terms of reliability before anything else, comfort, speed, cost but branding does work.

What though are the chances of attracting new passengers to these tendered routes with infrequent, often very slow journeys with short operating days and little or no weekend service? The purpose of these buses is generally to take pensioners to the shops, doctor etc - the existing passengers aren't going to like unnecessary changes, and they're probably the only passengers you're going to get.

 

[Andyh82]

Great, another generic Transdev ranting thread, nobody has mentioned ‘amazing’ regarding this development, but the same people have waded in to make the same comments yet again.

 

[SCH117X]

Maybe simpler for the company, certainly isn't for passengers

If they do Bury and Rochdale local rover tickets cheaper than a GM Saver Day I would think a lot of passengers will be happy.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What though are the chances of attracting new passengers to these tendered routes with infrequent, often very slow journeys with short operating days and little or no weekend service? The purpose of these buses is generally to take pensioners to the shops, doctor etc - the existing passengers aren't going to like unnecessary changes, and they're probably the only passengers you're going to get.

Obviously, some have little scope for development but others will have more potential. If, repeat IF, they do follow this course, then hopefully it will pay dividends. Seems odd to criticise when things aren't clear and, if they do relaunch, that they are trying to improve things.

 

[Alexbus12]

...and yet passenger figures are increasing.

Passenger numbers are increasing because of the new brands and rainbow fleet, not because of confusing and unnecessary renumbering of route numbers..

 

[SCH117X]

Crikey, are people on the west side of the Pennines so confused by a simple change of number, what would happen if they completely altered the services - mass confusion leading to suicide ? At least they are not going the full hog Wellglade approach that people though Alex would roll out across the board and drop route numbers. At the end of day for a lot users if the bus says the correct destination on it the route number is pretty irrelevant.

 

[Alexbus12]

Crikey, are people on the west side of the Pennines so confused by a simple change of number, what would happen if they completely altered the services - mass confusion leading to suicide ? At least they are not going the full hog Wellglade approach that people though Alex would roll out across the board and drop route numbers. At the end of day for a lot users if the bus says the correct destination on it the route number is pretty irrelevant.

Transdevs rosso operations are mostly tenders carrying the elderly, who have had the same route numbers for donkeys years, and then all of a sudden for them to change. Have some empathy, unless, you're one of the minions Alex hornby recruits to spread the #Amazing message and disregard those that disagree with him..

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Passenger numbers are increasing because of the new brands and rainbow fleet, not because of confusing and unnecessary renumbering of route numbers..

Though it may be a full relaunch with all those things? We don’t know

A renumbering in and of itself would be pointless and unnecessary but if it’s part of a bigger initiative, then at least it makes sense.

 

[Alexbus12]

Though it may be a full relaunch with all those things? We don’t know

A renumbering in and of itself would be pointless and unnecessary but if it’s part of a bigger initiative, then at least it makes sense.

What would be the point in having a rainbow fleet for a few tenders which carry fresh air or OAPs all day and finish at 5pm.. Would be funny if they did a massive rebrand and lost the routes at the next tender round..

 

[Andyh82]

What would be the point in having a rainbow fleet for a few tenders which carry fresh air or OAPs all day and finish at 5pm.. Would be funny if they did a massive rebrand and lost the routes at the next tender round..

Where has the idea come from that there will be a ‘rainbow fleet’?

It will quite obviously be using the new Rosso generic two tone yellow livery with some sort of branding, like in Keighley.

Can I ask, how you’d prefer tenders to be run? Have you not seen how so many tenders keep falling by the wayside as the council/PTE find them no longer worth paying for? Would you prefer that?

 

[Alexbus12]

Where has the idea come from that there will be a ‘rainbow fleet’?

It will quite obviously be using the new Rosso generic two tone yellow livery with some sort of branding, like in Keighley.

Can I ask, how you’d prefer tenders to be run? Have you not seen how so many tenders keep falling by the wayside as the council/PTE find them no longer worth paying for? Would you prefer that?

Was replying to the previous reply which said what if they included all of those things (which included branded buses etc/).
And obviously not, but it would find it amusing to see Transdev lose routes to other operators who can do a better job (here comes the Transdev bashers!!)..