Would that not fall foul of doubling back?London->Tamworth->Nuneaton->Sheffield.
Would that not fall foul of doubling back?
I don't think it necessarily would, no. ( I'm happy to be corrected if I have this wrong. )
My understanding is that you evaluate validity separately for each leg ( from origin to via point (to via point..) to destination ).
That's correct if the ticket is geographically routed (e.g. Via Tamworth) but this ticket isn't geographically routed. It's TOC restricted to XC & WMT trains only.
I think it is covered by Easement 30052, which says Journeys via Tamworth and Birmingham New Street may double back through Water Orton. This easement applies in both directions.Would that not fall foul of doubling back?
The split route check would only apply if the ticket was geographically routed.
My understanding is that these hidden mandatory via points are not treated in the same way; they are just conditions of the fare being considered valid.
Journey planners and booking engines have no way of knowing if the via points are hidden or not! They appear the same in the data.
I don't think they affect the validity of the fare, but they might allow you to get a journey planner to produce an itinerary over a route that arguably isn't valid, which could sometimes be useful...
Indeed, fare data are too hidden from the general public, which is not a good idea.I was fairly sure that was the case. So even though, as @yorkie implies, journeys based on split routeing at (non public) via points might not be in the spirit of the public facing RG, correctly implemented journey planners should still validate them?
I think that the OP's intended journey via Birmingham would depend on this, or is there another easement?
Yes, that's a potential advantage. I guess a downside is that non-public exclude points on some routes are more of a problem - members of the public won't be able to get an itinerary but won't have any way of knowing why not.
However booking sites are not allowed to sell the ticket, due to the following hidden electronic restrictions:Not valid for travel on services timed to depart the origin station on the ticket after 15:59 and before 19:01 in either direction.
A connecting service can be used to complete a journey begun at a valid time.
Not valid to depart any location 1600–1718 on any TOC
Not valid to depart any location 1720–1859 on any TOC
Not valid for travel on services timed to depart the origin station on the ticket after 15:59 and before 19:01 in either direction.
A connecting service can be used to complete a journey begun at a valid time.
Not valid to depart any location 1600–1718 on any TOC
Not valid to depart any location 1720–1859 on any TOC
A connecting service can be used to complete a journey begun at a valid time.In what way do these differ?
Who can be contacted for rectifying the glitch in the ticketing system?The contractual position is that the ticket is valid, as per:
However booking sites are not allowed to sell the ticket, due to the following hidden electronic restrictions:
This results in the following, which are breaches of competition and consumer laws:
I've said it before, so apologies for saying it again, but the rail industry is skating on thin ice, due to multiple breaches of relevant laws. This is just one example out of too many to count.
- Customers who book online are overcharged (if they do not realise)
- Online retailers miss out on sales (if the customers do realise)
There isn't much that can be done about it - the data formats don't support that type of rule. This has been a known problem for at least the last 10 years, and has been brought up on here regularly during that time.Who can be contacted for rectifying the glitch in the ticketing system?
It can be encoded with a list of stations or it can be encoded to apply from any station.Can it not be changed to
Not valid to depart origin 1600–1718 on any TOC
Not valid to depart origin 1720–1859 on any TOC
It would be best if taking reference to Southwestern's setting, for departure time from Waterloo / Vauxhall / Clapham JunctionThe contractual position is that the ticket is valid, as per:
However booking sites are not allowed to sell the ticket, due to the following hidden electronic restrictions:
This results in the following, which are breaches of competition and consumer laws:
I've said it before, so apologies for saying it again, but the rail industry is skating on thin ice, due to multiple breaches of relevant laws. This is just one example out of too many to count.
- Customers who book online are overcharged (if they do not realise)
- Online retailers miss out on sales (if the customers do realise)
It is not permitted on the outward portion. It is on the return.And to confirm, would I be possible to break the journey at Birmingham New Street? Would it be very likely that I may need to have a argue with staff?
The contractual position is that the ticket is valid, as per:
However booking sites are not allowed to sell the ticket, due to the following hidden electronic restrictions:
This results in the following, which are breaches of competition and consumer laws:
I've said it before, so apologies for saying it again, but the rail industry is skating on thin ice, due to multiple breaches of relevant laws. This is just one example out of too many to count.
- Customers who book online are overcharged (if they do not realise)
- Online retailers miss out on sales (if the customers do realise)
Yeah, what I am thinking of is, to break the journey (for dinner out of station) at Birmingham on return journey to London.It is not permitted on the outward portion. It is on the return.
It is not very likely you would need to argue; there are no staff at the station exits and you are permitted to access any facilities within station premises (which are very expensive at BHM!), however we cannot condone the braking of this rule, even though it's ridiculous and unenforceable.
That's fineYeah, what I am thinking of is, to break the journey (for dinner out of station) at Birmingham on return journey to London.
It can be encoded with a list of stations or it can be encoded to apply from any station.
There is no concept of "origin" as such.