Royal Trains - are there any lines that Royal Trains have never traversed?

[Western Sunset]

Sure a quail atlas is more inkeeping with her maj!!!

Think she'd need a more historical atlas, as some lines she's travelled over are no more, eg Trent North curve.

 

[ian1944]

Royal train has definitely been to North Berwick in 1902

And was supposedly parked on the then-open Gullane branch in WWII.

 

[D6130]

I wonder if Liz fills in a Baker atlas. That trains done some rare freight lines over the years .

Yes indeed....and Princess Anne did the Faslane branch (or just over half of it) in four coaches of the Royal Train on 25th November 1971 - hauled by class 29 no.6119 (its last passenger duty before withdrawal at the end of the following month).

 

[Cowley]

I was thinking about lines down my way and came to the conclusion that Exmouth might not have been visited by the royal train?

Although maybe it might have been many years ago when all the surrounding lines were still open (and if a member of the royal family were opening a new wing at the Budleigh Salterton Twilight Rest Home for the Terminally Short of Cash*)?

*One for @43096 there.

 

[jupiter]

I’ve heard mess room tales of a royal train on the Swanage HR branch line. Not her maj though, but a royal train nevertheless.

 

[Springs Branch]

Given Queen Victoria and Prince Albert's well-known affection for Osborne House, I wondered whether there was ever a Royal Carriage or two kept on the Isle of Wight railways in the 19th century?

But a quick Google reveals Osborne House is right next to Cowes, so probably no need for any royal rail travel on the IOW.

Another part of the National Rail system not accessible to the Royal Train would be Finsbury Park - Moorgate.

Was there ever a Royal Train in Ireland (pre-First World War)?

 

[Helvellyn]

I know this is about where it hasn't been, but clues as to where it might can be found by looking up the seats of prominent members of the aristocracy. Just as the Royal Train provided a secure home from home, so does a stately home.

The closed Northampton-Peterborough line, much of which is now the Nene Way, has information boards showing the Royal Train was a regular traveller because the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester's country home was at Barnwell Manor near Oundle and members of the family would go stay with them.

So branches that might at the look of it seem unlikely for a visit may well ha e had one because of who lived nearby.

 

[pdeaves]

I would be amazed if the royal train ever visited Marlow.

 

[Rescars]

I would imagine that royal trains seldom ventured far over Col Stephen's empire.

Expanding this thought, I wonder how many standard gauge light railways or similar have ever been visited by royal trains. Surely the royal train never went to Bishops Castle.

 

[mailbyrail]

Springs Branch asked if there was a royal train in Ireland.
There wasn't a full train as such, but there have been several royal coaches which were built specially for royal visits.
The GSWR coach 351 was built for the visit of King Edward 7th to replace the earlier coach built for Queen Victoria's visit.
It was restored and renamed the Irish State Coach, used for the various occasions but now preserved

351 Irish State Coach

RPSI Collection | Whitehead Railway Museum | Northern Ireland

www.steamtrainsireland.com

The Belfast & County Down Railway also had a royal saloon which is in a poor state of repair but at least it has been rescued

BCDR 153 – the ‘Royal Saloon’

Belfast & County Down Railway No. 153 is undoubtedly one of the most historic railway carriages in Ireland, let alone in our museum collection. It was built for the BCDR to accommodate Queen Victoria on her tour of Ireland for her Diamond Jubilee, and was the most opulent carriages ever owned by

www.downrail.co.uk

 

[Magdalia]

I have done a lot of research on Royal Train movements.

It would be quite difficult to come up with a definitive list of possiblities without trawling through the archives of Royal Train notices held by the National Railway Museum and the Royal Train Superintendent at Wolverton.

The NRM has extensive records for the period 1938-76, which I think came from Wolverton. They appear to cover the trains using rolling stock based at Wolverton.

For example just saw a timetable on eBay which shows an overnight trip from London Euston to Manchester Central via Crewe, Middlewich, Northwich, Plumley where it stayed in a sidings for a few hours and then by Sale into Manchester. On the return it picked up the Royal party at Gooestry before heading back to London.

For example, in March 1957 the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh visited Staffordshire and Derbyshire. The day ended with the royal couple making a brief visit to the new St Philip's church in Chaddesden, before joining the royal train at a suitably decorated Spondon station.

Both of these can be identified in the NRM records.

I suppose it also depends whether or not you count the occasions that Royal Train coaches have been coupled to service trains (that used to happen quite often in the past) or where a member of the royal family has travelled on a service train, like the Queen used to do quite frequently from Kings Cross to Kings Lynn and vice versa.

I have done a lot of research on these, which are not in the NRM/Wolverton records. Up to 1973 these used the East Coast Joint Stock saloons 395 and 396 were based at Bounds Green not Wolverton. After that First Class compartments of service trains have been used. In the period up to 1973 many of these movements were reported in the Court Circular and local newspapers.

In BR days the Southern Region was also very fond of using their own Pullman cars in lieu of the dedicated coaches, so a lot of journeys were made to and from Tattenham Corner (for Epsom racecourse), Portsmouth Harbour (for boarding or alighting HMY Britannia) using the Southern’s own stock vice the Train.

After the end of steam these were sometimes worked with a very smartly turned out 4BEP.

The royal train enjoyed an overnight stay in Whitemoor yard earlier this before continuing it's journey the following morning.

This working was quite unusual in that the overnight stop was near the end of a journey back to a Royal residence. Most overnight stops were prior to or in between official engagements. However I'm aware of a few Royal Trains stopping on the Abingdon or Wallingford branches on return journeys to Windsor or Slough. There's lots of obscure branches where the Royal Train parked up overnight not too far away from an official engagement next day.

The Duke of Edinburgh and Prince Charles both used the Royal Train a lot. The Duke of Edinburgh did lots of official engagements by train to promote the Duke of Edinburgh's Award. Prince Charles did lots of official engagements by train to both Wales and Cornwall as Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall respectively.

 

[6Gman]

Just been reading up on the Blaenau Ffestiniog branch (LNWR version).

In 1953 the Royal Train stabled overnight at/close to Glan Conwy.

Doesn't appear to have ventured any further up the branch.

Has definitely visited Llandudno. I was there (but more interested in the loco hauling it than the woman who alighted. I was about 5.).

EDIT> I was 6 (just).

 

[Springs Branch]

It's not a corner of the network I'm too familiar with, but would the former loading gauge restrictions on the Tonbridge - Hastings line have prevented the Royal Train going that way in the days before electrification and singling through the tunnels?

Presumably in more recent, cost-conscious times (after the gauge restrictions were lifted) any royal visits to that part of the world have been done by big, purple Bentley, rather than getting the special train out of the shed.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Has the Royal Train ever passed along the Mersey Railway Tunnel? The Stock Transfer Line or the Northern Line through the tunnels via Moorfields and Liverpool Central?

I think there was mention on another thread recently (can't recall which, but it will have been Merseyrail related) that Queen Elizabeth II has travelled on at least some parts of Merseyrail. Albeit on a 507 rather than the dedicated Royal Train stock.

 

[yorksrob]

It's not a corner of the network I'm too familiar with, but would the former loading gauge restrictions on the Tonbridge - Hastings line have prevented the Royal Train going that way in the days before electrification and singling through the tunnels?

Presumably in more recent, cost-conscious times (after the gauge restrictions were lifted) any royal visits to that part of the world have been done by big, purple Bentley, rather than getting the special train out of the shed.

That's a good call. I wonder whether any dedicated Royal Train vehicles were built to Hastings gauge. Perhaps HM may have had a ride in saloon "Caroline"

 

[zwk500]

It's not a corner of the network I'm too familiar with, but would the former loading gauge restrictions on the Tonbridge - Hastings line have prevented the Royal Train going that way in the days before electrification and singling through the tunnels?

Presumably in more recent, cost-conscious times (after the gauge restrictions were lifted) any royal visits to that part of the world have been done by big, purple Bentley, rather than getting the special train out of the shed.

Definitely for the Mk3 train. Id guess for its predecessors as well as they were probably C1. If they wanted to go to Hastings there are 2 other routes though.

 

[yorksrob]

Definitely for the Mk3 train. Id guess for its predecessors as well as they were probably C1. If they wanted to go to Hastings there are 2 other routes though.

Also an alternative route to Royal Tunbridge Wells at the time.

 

[zwk500]

Also an alternative route to Royal Tunbridge Wells at the time.

Good point, probably a more likely destination as well!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Has the Royal Train ever passed along the Mersey Railway Tunnel? The Stock Transfer Line or the Northern Line through the tunnels via Moorfields and Liverpool Central?

The tunnel (then just between Green Lane and James St) was officially opened by the Prince of Wales (later Edward VII) on 20 January 1886.
This description doesn't say if he used a train (sorry, can't quote an extract).

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/KUMAT18860315.2.13

At that date rolling stock was craned in/out of the railway at Birkenhead Central, at it was not yet connected to the main line (Rock Ferry 1891).
So not the Royal Train, in any event.

 

[Pinza-C55]

Decades ago it was common for the royal train to be used as a base, and was often parked in obscure places overnight near where engagements ended, or near where engagements started following morning.

This seemed to include some little used branch lines where it was out of the way, and relatively safe rather than in busy towns. Presumably easier to have some police watching for trouble walking across muddy fields than parking next to places where anyone could hide.

It was once parked at Bedale station in 1970 I believe and the station platform (disused for 16 years) was resurfaced with tarmac for that one nights use.

 

[Springs Branch]

It was once parked at Bedale station in 1970 I believe and the station platform (disused for 16 years) was resurfaced with tarmac for that one nights use.

A similar example to this was Lowton Junction, a local station situated between Golborne Jn and Parkside Jn / Newton-le-Willows which had closed in 1949.

Into the 1970s, this was a conveniently discrete embarkation & disembarkation point for the Royal Train during official visits to the north-west.

Although Lowton's station buildings were long gone, the platform surface, edge coping stones and access to the main road overbridge were maintained in remarkably good order for a closed station.

According to local recollections, you would know a royal visit was imminent when a dozen or more BR workmen arrived to tidy up the platform, pull up weeds and repaint the hand rail of the ramp up to the main road.


Adrian Vaughan's book A Signalman's Morning includes an account of the Royal Train being stabled overnight on the freight-only Faringdon branch line at Uffington Junction (on the GWML between Swindon and Didcot) in the early 1960s. According to the signalman recounting the tale, the train made two such overnight visits within a year or so, both times with the Duke of Edinburgh on board. Both times Prince Philip popped into the signalbox for a chat and cup of tea with the bobby first thing in the morning before returning to the train for his breakfast.

Another anecdote from Vaughan's book is that the local ganger was required to crawl under the train to insert several special, royal-crested chamber pots beneath the toilet pipes. Then remove and clean these in the morning before returning the pots to the train before departure.

One question that comes to mind - in this case it seems the train loco (a GWR Castle) would have stayed with the train all night, presumably in steam throughout. Would this have been possible, with regard to the tender's water capacity and ability to then chuff off to whatever destination Prince Philip was heading to the following day?

 

[omnicity4659]

Can't imagine any royal trains have been on the Blyth & Tyne line or up to Ashington/Newbiggin at any point

Closest one has been is Tynemouth, now part of the Metro.

 

[Magdalia]

Although Lowton's station buildings were long gone, the platform surface, edge coping stones and access to the main road overbridge were maintained in remarkably good order for a closed station.

According to local recollections, you would know a royal visit was imminent when a dozen or more BR workmen arrived to tidy up the platform, pull up weeds and repaint the hand rail of the ramp up to the main road.

Preparations for Royal Train overnight stops were meticulous, and the files at York for the 1938-76 period contain a lot of details. The exact position that the train would stop was carefully measured out in advance. Lists of supplies are given. This included large quantities of ice which was needed for the air conditioning in the Royal Saloons 798 and 799. When the Queen Mother was on board it also included a large number of copies of the Sporting Life, the newspaper with the most comprehensive information on that day's horse race meetings.

One question that comes to mind - in this case it seems the train loco (a GWR Castle) would have stayed with the train all night, presumably in steam throughout. Would this have been possible, with regard to the tender's water capacity and ability to then chuff off to whatever destination Prince Philip was heading to the following day?

Night heat was an important consideration. In steam heat diesel days a separate loco would usually be provided for night heat. This happened in steam days too, does the Vaughan book mention this for the overnight stays near Uffington? The last known uses of steam locomotives on the Royal Train were for night heat purposes in spring 1967, 62005 at South Gosforth prior to the Maundy service at Durham and 45562 at Nidd Bridge for a Duke of Edinburgh's award tour.

This continued for a while after the introduction of the new air conditioned train for the Silver Jubilee in 1977, the Eastern and Western Regions often using a specially prepared class 31/4 for night heat.

It was once parked at Bedale station in 1970 I believe and the station platform (disused for 16 years) was resurfaced with tarmac for that one nights use.

Can't imagine any royal trains have been on the Blyth & Tyne line or up to Ashington/Newbiggin at any point

Closest one has been is Tynemouth, now part of the Metro.

Bedale was used as recently as 1981, prior to the official opening of the Tyne and Wear Metro, and South Gosforth as recently as 1973.

After 1976 it gets much more difficult to identify the locations of the overnight stops, so there are lots which are not known, including some in the North East of England. There may be other Royal Train overnight stops at Bedale or South Gosforth, for example, that are not documented.

 

[alistairlees]

Good point, probably a more likely destination as well!

Princess Anne has certainly been on a service train (with a compartment or two to herself and her security) from at least Tunbridge Wells to London in 1996. I can't remember any more details.

 

[Springs Branch]

Night heat was an important consideration. In steam heat diesel days a separate loco would usually be provided for night heat. This happened in steam days too, does the Vaughan book mention this for the overnight stays near Uffington?

Vaughan doesn't mention anything about this in his book and, on reflection, my assumption that the same Castle-class loco stayed on the Royal Train all night may or may not be correct. Just surmised this, based on the track layout onto the branch at Uffington, and the old signalman's possibly abbreviated description.

One thing that is explicitly described in the book relates to precise positioning of the train on the Faringdon branch:-

"If you go down the hill on the branch you'll find the white post with a lamp bracket that was put up to mark where the driver had to stop - he had to have the lamp exactly between the engine and the tender and then he knew that the tail of the train was clear of points 30"

 

[Pinza-C55]

Preparations for Royal Train overnight stops were meticulous, and the files at York for the 1938-76 period contain a lot of details. The exact position that the train would stop was carefully measured out in advance. Lists of supplies are given. This included large quantities of ice which was needed for the air conditioning in the Royal Saloons 798 and 799. When the Queen Mother was on board it also included a large number of copies of the Sporting Life, the newspaper with the most comprehensive information on that day's horse race meetings.


Night heat was an important consideration. In steam heat diesel days a separate loco would usually be provided for night heat. This happened in steam days too, does the Vaughan book mention this for the overnight stays near Uffington? The last known uses of steam locomotives on the Royal Train were for night heat purposes in spring 1967, 62005 at South Gosforth prior to the Maundy service at Durham and 45562 at Nidd Bridge for a Duke of Edinburgh's award tour.

This continued for a while after the introduction of the new air conditioned train for the Silver Jubilee in 1977, the Eastern and Western Regions often using a specially prepared class 31/4 for night heat.




Bedale was used as recently as 1981, prior to the official opening of the Tyne and Wear Metro, and South Gosforth as recently as 1973.

After 1976 it gets much more difficult to identify the locations of the overnight stops, so there are lots which are not known, including some in the North East of England. There may be other Royal Train overnight stops at Bedale or South Gosforth, for example, that are not documented.

I think you have confused Bedale with another station ? Perhaps you were thinking of Bedlington ?Bedale was and is on the Wensleydale Railway and closed to passengers in 1954 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedale_railway_station

@Springs Branch said "According to local recollections, you would know a royal visit was imminent when a dozen or more BR workmen arrived to tidy up the platform, pull up weeds and repaint the hand rail of the ramp up to the main road."

I'd never thought of this for a long time but in 1977 I visited the remains of West Cornforth station on the former Ferryhill - Hartlepool line which closed to passengers in 1952 and although the station buildings and one platform had been demolished, the remaining platform was in exceptionally good condition so good that it looked like an open station. I wonder if it was ever used for the royal train ?

 

[Howardh]

Are Royal Train movements announced to the public in advance? Thinking of security and the train being vulnerable en route?

 

[Magdalia]

I think you have confused Bedale with another station ? Perhaps you were thinking of Bedlington ?Bedale was and is on the Wensleydale Railway and closed to passengers in 1954

No, I'm not confused. The line as far as Redmire remained open for freight until the early 1990s. After the Beeching era closures, most of the Royal Train overnight stops were on freight only branches.

 

[Peter0124]

Has the Royal train ever visited Glasgow Central/Queen Street low levels?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Are Royal Train movements announced to the public in advance? Thinking of security and the train being vulnerable en route?

Not usually; sometimes they are but even then not in any great detail such as the route - only the arrival point.