Running late no ticket

[NorthTraveller]

I was running late for work this morning, and neglected to buy a ticket - I always buy one but today I ran late. The train fare is around £3.80 return. And the train was a First Transpennine Express train.

I was in a hurry and did not stop to buy a ticket, no one on the train asked for one or I would have bought one on the train. Once off the train I was in a mad dash to get to work.

There were two guards who was stood at the end of an underpass, surrounded by a bike and two others who did not stop me, I believe he may have called me but as the train was 7 minutes late and I was running very late for work I had my blinders on and walked right past. I think I may have called "I'm running late for work" as well.

I did not stop to give details, there were others ahead of me and I will of course be purchasing the return ticket this evening to make up for it and I always usually have a ticket with me (as proof in my wallet).

Can they still prosecute without my details? Should I explain to someone at the station or should I just go about my business?

Thanks,

NT

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can they still prosecute without my details?

I'm not clear how they could, unless you were recognised from CCTV which seems unlikely.

There is a chance they may recognise you this evening, but if you have purchased the ticket you should have purchased this evening (perhaps buy it the right way round by buying online and collecting from a TVM?) and show them it I doubt there will be further action.

Just don't do it again, you may not be so lucky next time.

 

[najaB]

Can they still prosecute without my details?

Very unlikely, but don't make a habit of it.

 

[NorthTraveller]

Thank you Neil. It's rare that I do something like this, and I always try to greet the guards and ticket collectors with a smile and be as helpful as I can. But today my mind was most certainly elsewhere, I think I even grumbled about the lateness of the train which is very unlike me.

 

[Nippy]

You say it's very rare you do this. Hopefully that's the only time you've done it!

 

[dzug2]

I'm not clear how they could, unless you were recognised from CCTV which seems unlikely.

There is a chance they may recognise you this evening, but if you have purchased the ticket you should have purchased this evening (perhaps buy it the right way round by buying online and collecting from a TVM?) and show them it I doubt there will be further action.

Just don't do it again, you may not be so lucky next time.

But surely the TVM will have the time the ticket was printed on it so if they look closely it will be apparent that it couldn't have been used at the time it is claimed it was used?

 

[Bletchleyite]

But surely the TVM will have the time the ticket was printed on it so if they look closely it will be apparent that it couldn't have been used at the time it is claimed it was used?

My suggestion was not that the OP would get away with it on that basis, but that at least doing this unprompted would make it clear that the OP did not intend to dodge the fare, which may mean the TOC is disinclined to pursue the matter even if it had a means of doing so.

Yes, a Byelaw prosecution would stick, but a RoRA one may well not, and TOC prosecution departments are not totally unreasonable.

 

[NorthTraveller]

I'm not clear how they could, unless you were recognised from CCTV which seems unlikely.

There is a chance they may recognise you this evening, but if you have purchased the ticket you should have purchased this evening (perhaps buy it the right way round by buying online and collecting from a TVM?) and show them it I doubt there will be further action.

Just don't do it again, you may not be so lucky next time.

I've had no problem buying returns on the return journey previous to this on those rare occasions when there has been no means of purchasing tickets in the morning, my main cause for concern is that I didn't stop at the guards after the underpass. Which was very rude of me. Thanks for the advice everyone.

 

[BestWestern]

Whether or not this has happened before is something that only you know, but I feel it's worth pointing out for future reference just how high a risk of significant trouble that sort of incident runs.

It does appear that you failed to stop when requested to do so by the Revenue personnel, having avoided paying the fare for your journey. Essentially, in the eyes of a Train Operating Company, you dodged the fare and then did a runner. Had you been caught - for example if there had been British Transport Police present and they had pursued you - you would very likely have been in some serious bother. I would imagine the willingness to offer a nice easy out of court settlement would be somewhat diminished in those circumstances. You also stress several times that your mitigation was you were very late for work. The train in question, however, was seven minutes late - that is hardly major disruption.

I would ensure for the foreseeable future that you have a valid ticket each and every day, and I'd save them all up for evidential purposes as well, just in case you are indeed recognised at some point in the future.

 

[NorthTraveller]

Whether or not this has happened before is something that only you know, but I feel it's worth pointing out for future reference just how high a risk of significant trouble that sort of incident runs.

It does appear that you failed to stop when requested to do so by the Revenue personnel, having avoided paying the fare for your journey. Essentially, in the eyes of a Train Operating Company, you dodged the fare and then did a runner. Had you been caught - for example if there had been British Transport Police present and they had pursued you - you would very likely have been in some serious bother. I would imagine the willingness to offer a nice easy out of court settlement would be somewhat diminished in those circumstances. You also stress several times that your mitigation was you were very late for work. The train in question, however, was seven minutes late - that is hardly major disruption.

I would ensure for the foreseeable future that you have a valid ticket each and every day, and I'd save them all up for evidential purposes as well, just in case you are indeed recognised at some point in the future.

Thank you for your input, obviously this is not something I do often, which is why I have come here to this forum. I will take the consequences if I am called up on this.

 

[NorthTraveller]

You say it's very rare you do this. Hopefully that's the only time you've done it!

In the several years I've been travelling about there have been one or two occasions when buying tickets has not been possible, no card for the machine and and no ticket operator, and no one checking or selling on the trains. I've tried knocking on the doors at the front of trains but no one has replied. It is rare, but it does happen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In the several years I've been travelling about there have been one or two occasions when buying tickets has not been possible, no card for the machine and and no ticket operator, and no one checking or selling on the trains. I've tried knocking on the doors at the front of trains but no one has replied. It is rare, but it does happen.

Try the back, the guard won't be found in the front cab.

 

[NorthTraveller]

Try the back, the guard won't be found in the front cab.

Will do, though on a train with a bicycle, only going 2 stops and there are 6 carriages on the train this is a little difficult!

 

[island]

It's usually not permissible to take a bicycle on a train at peak.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's usually not permissible to take a bicycle on a train at peak.

It is on Northern and Merseyrail at least.

 

[NorthTraveller]

It's usually not permissible to take a bicycle on a train at peak.

I would find it very hard to get to and from work without my bike ... Especially when the train lines don't go direct to my place of work, I'm sure I've never heard this rule.

 

[455driver]

I would find it very hard to get to and from work without my bike ... Especially when the train lines don't go direct to my place of work, I'm sure I've never heard this rule.

Which is why a lot of stations have bike racks, you cycle to the station and lock your bike up, catch the train to your destination, unlock your 2nd bike and use that one to get to work.

 

[NorthTraveller]

Which is why a lot of stations have bike racks, you cycle to the station and lock your bike up, catch the train to your destination, unlock your 2nd bike and use that one to get to work.

Who has the cash for a second bike??

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's extremely common practice in the South East where bicycles are not carried on peak time trains. You can get a cheap one for 50 quid out of the paper.

Another option is a folding bike.

However, Northern and TPE do not AFAIAA ban bikes in the peak (subject to physically fitting on) so this does not apply to you.

 

[najaB]

Who has the cash for a second bike??

Nope. Lots of people do exactly this.

 

[455driver]

Who has the cash for a second bike??

No, there are hundreds (possibly thousands) of commuters that do just that at Waterloo!

 

[NorthTraveller]

I've checked the train companies I travel with and there is no such rule against bikes at peak times or otherwise, and considering the amount of other commuters like myself who also bring their bikes on with them I shouldn't think it would be enforceable.

I've never been to Waterloo, but with hundreds and thousands of people all with two bikes each I shudder to think about how many thousands of bike racks that must have been built to accommodate them all. This seems to be an example of how little Londoners know about the rest of Britain.

 

[najaB]

This seems to be an example of how little Londoners know about the rest of Britain.

For what it's worth, I've seen this outside of London.

 

[NorthTraveller]

For what it's worth, I've seen this outside of London.

This could be my short sightedness for trains outside of the North of Britain as a commuter, but amongst the people I know, not one has two bikes for this type of travel. I stand somewhat corrected, but I still think it is a bit of a stretch.

 

[455driver]

I've checked the train companies I travel with and there is no such rule against bikes at peak times or otherwise, and considering the amount of other commuters like myself who also bring their bikes on with them I shouldn't think it would be enforceable.

If there is no space then they are not compelled to carry the bikes.

I've never been to Waterloo, but with hundreds and thousands of people all with two bikes each I shudder to think about how many thousands of bike racks that must have been built to accommodate them all. This seems to be an example of how little Londoners know about the rest of Britain.

I aint a Londoner, never have been and never will be, my limit was driving a train into Waterloo and back out again, something I don't do any more.

 

[455driver]

If the BTP were on hand this morning then they would/could have stopped you (using minimal force) and the fact you had ignored requests from the RPI and didn't have a train ticket would have been evidence enough that you intended to dodge the fare, intent is proved by actions (what you did) rather than thoughts (what you wanted to do).

Think about that one.

 

[najaB]

This could be my short sightedness for trains outside of the North of Britain as a commuter, but amongst the people I know, not one has two bikes for this type of travel. I stand somewhat corrected, but I still think it is a bit of a stretch.

It is much more common 'down south' but I have seen it with Edinburgh commuters as well.

 

[DaleCooper]

It's rare that I do something like this,

I've had no problem buying returns on the return journey previous to this on those rare occasions when there has been no means of purchasing tickets in the morning,

Thank you for your input, obviously this is not something I do often,

In the several years I've been travelling about there have been one or two occasions when buying tickets has not been possible, no card for the machine and and no ticket operator, and no one checking or selling on the trains. I've tried knocking on the doors at the front of trains but no one has replied. It is rare, but it does happen.

I work very hard and always pay my fare, the fact that I am so concerned about missing it just once should show that I am an honest person.

There are inconsistencies in your posts which suggest this is not the first time this has happened.

Would a weekly or montly ticket be appropriate for your needs?

 

[NorthTraveller]

There are inconsistencies in your posts which suggest this is not the first time this has happened.

Would a weekly or monthly ticket be appropriate for your needs?

The last time before today would have been well over two years ago, and previous to that possibly twice when I used to commute previously probably when I was in my early twenties. And each time I have always paid the money back at the earliest possible time. So what I mean by rarely, or when I've discussed those rare occasions, is just that. I don't think there are any inconsistencies there.

I think that saying "I always pay my fare" is very accurate. Considering I've always paid it as soon as I was physically able.

A monthly ticket is no good as I don't travel every day in this manner and I would waste money. I'm currently learning to drive, running a car will be a significant saving as it will cost less than the accumulated train fare.

I was using the bike as an example of when I've had to pay for the return in the evening, or when there hasn't been a conductor on the train.

Does that conclude that line of thought?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If the BTP were on hand this morning then they would/could have stopped you (using minimal force) and the fact you had ignored requests from the RPI and didn't have a train ticket would have been evidence enough that you intended to dodge the fare, intent is proved by actions (what you did) rather than thoughts (what you wanted to do).

Think about that one.

That does make sense, of course on any other day I would have stopped, and have always shown my tickets in the past, but that wasn't the point. The hypothetical situation of the BTP being present did not come up. Hopefully I will be able to purchase my ticket and therefore no harm done. I have taken all of the advice on board, though it is not necessary. I do thank you for taking the time to respond. I also apologise for accusing you of being a Londoner.

 

[tony6499]

You could now be on their watchlist and possibly stopped tomorrow or whenever they spot you again, the fact that you may or may not buy a ticket tonight would not be enough to stop you being prosecuted for your actions this morning.

It really depends on what actually happened this morning.