Russia invades Ukraine

[Chingy]

If Putin wanted to press the button and start a nuclear war, could he with just his own orders?

What I mean is, would he have to seek permission from anyone, follow a procedure, get agreement from a range of other people?

Just trying to find out if there are levels he will have to go through, as if he is mentally ill, like the poster above said, there might be someone who is sane and sensible that may be able to stop him.

 

[RichJF]

If Putin wanted to press the button and start a nuclear war, could he with just his own orders?

What I mean is, would he have to seek permission from anyone, follow a procedure, get agreement from a range of other people?

Just trying to find out if there are levels he will have to go through, as if he is mentally ill, like the poster above said, there might be someone who is sane and sensible that may be able to stop him.

I believe they have a 3 level authorisation (same as US) called CHEGET. Military keep the codes, but the president authorises the strike. Ultimate final decisions lies with the trigger puller, like the UK Trident system.

 

[HST274]

Anyone panic buying clearly doesn't realise that as soon as one falls we're all done for. I'm not optimistic ukraine will win but I am relatively confident we will avoid all out nuclear war.

 

[RichJF]

Anyone panic buying clearly doesn't realise that as soon as one falls we're all done for. I'm not optimistic ukraine will win but I am relatively confident we will avoid all out nuclear war.

The defence analysts on BBC/Reuters are saying Putin lashed out AFTER Ukrainian & Belarussian delegations agreed to meet, which to me is his idea of warning that he wants his demands met in a ceasefire.

 

[BananaRepublic]

Of course you could all be wrong.
The sanctions and isolation of Russia may in fact strengthen Putin and the ruling elites.
Their power has always had to contend the potential threat of internal "erosion", whilst the populace and country was integrating more and more with the wider world, both economically, culturally and through travel.
Now that Russia is closing in on itself, the regime will be able to tighten their iron grip on the nation, even further.
There are no would be usurpers of any serious significance, waiting in the wings to topple them.

There's an interesting piece here, listing some of the "inner circle" and trying to explain the world view that has led them to the current place.

Vladimir Putin: The security men, officials, and friends who are in his inner circle

His close associates include the Siloviki - the security men around Putin, most of whom rose up through the ranks of the KGB as he did and have a hawkish, Cold War mindset.

news.sky.com

.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I’m starting to find all this pretty scary now. Up until now it’s been just another war in a far away country, now we seem to be facing the very real prospect of a potential nuclear conflict. I grew up in the ‘80s, but the fears then never really filtered down to me. I only learned about them later.

Being the age of 76, I shall never forget my early years at Manchester University during the October 1962 nuclear stand-off between the Russian and American sides caused by Russian ships approaching Cuba with certain cigar-shaped missile objects when the ultimate disaster could have fallen onto mankind.

 

[Bungle73]

Being the age of 76, I shall never forget my early years at Manchester University during the October 1962 nuclear stand-off between the Russian and American sides caused by Russian ships approaching Cuba with certain cigar-shaped missile objects when the ultimate disaster could have fallen onto mankind.

Yeah, I’ve read about that. Sounded scary. Glad I wasn’t alive at the time.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Best to wait for some reliable corroboration. There was exactly such a report after the initial attack. It turned out that the destruction was of the second never completed but still stored An-225. Given its capabilities it would have made more sense for the Russians to capture the working example. We shall see...

This is the stance I'll take until it can be confirmed by an external source.

 

[dgl]

All airspace in the EU is now banned from Russian aircraft and the EU are to start shipping weapons to Ukraine.

 

[Caboose Class]

Being the age of 76, I shall never forget my early years at Manchester University during the October 1962 nuclear stand-off between the Russian and American sides caused by Russian ships approaching Cuba with certain cigar-shaped missile objects when the ultimate disaster could have fallen onto mankind.

Being the age of 72 (and also a Man University graduate), I too remember the Cuban Missile crisis. Kruschev (eventually) backed off - which is exactly what Zelensky and NATO should be doing right now. All Putin wants is NOT to have NATO on his direct border - just like the USA didn't want nuclear weapons on their border back in 1962.

 

[coppercapped]

I’m starting to find all this pretty scary now. Up until now it’s been just another war in a far away country, now we seem to be facing the very real prospect of a potential nuclear conflict. I grew up in the ‘80s, but the fears then never really filtered down to me. I only learned about them later.

As I wrote in an earlier post, I am a War Baby and grew up in the 1940s and 50s. I can (just) remember reports of Stalin's death and the feeling of relief from my parents that he had gone. I remember the atmospheric nuclear tests as the pictures in the newspapers and cinema news reels were so beautiful and frightening at the same time.

I really can't get excited or worried about the situation now, I've lived through it once already. You get used to it. Then there was a four minute warning period from the time any incoming missiles were detected to...annihilation.

Keep calm and carry on. This is not a joke but good advice.

If Putin wanted to press the button and start a nuclear war, could he with just his own orders?

What I mean is, would he have to seek permission from anyone, follow a procedure, get agreement from a range of other people?

Just trying to find out if there are levels he will have to go through, as if he is mentally ill, like the poster above said, there might be someone who is sane and sensible that may be able to stop him.

As I wrote in an earlier post, Putin is the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. What he says goes.

If Putin does want to commit suicide, then one can only hope that enough of the people who would have to carry out his order do not want to commit suicide.

 

[hst43102]

Being the age of 72 (and also a Man University graduate), I too remember the Cuban Missile crisis. Kruschev (eventually) backed off - which is exactly what Zelensky and NATO should be doing right now. All Putin wants is NOT to have NATO on his direct border - just like the USA didn't want nuclear weapons on their border back in 1962.

For the last time, Russia has had a direct border with NATO since 1947. Stop supporting Putin on this topic.
If it was the UK under invasion, would you be suggesting that the government and NATO should "back off" and let the Russians take over?

 

[Drogba11CFC]

It appears that the statement was a provocative one.

How Should the U.S. Respond to Putin’s Nuclear Provocation?

Putin’s order to raise Russia’s nuclear-alert status is aimed as much at a domestic audience as it is at the West.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Falcon1200]

Kruschev (eventually) backed off - which is exactly what Zelensky and NATO should be doing right now. All Putin wants is NOT to have NATO on his direct border -

Zelensky should back off - WTF !! His country is being invaded, and his people killed, by the armed forces of a foreign power ruled by a mad dictator. And all Hitler wanted was Lebensraum.....

 

[DanNCL]

Being the age of 72 (and also a Man University graduate), I too remember the Cuban Missile crisis. Kruschev (eventually) backed off - which is exactly what Zelensky and NATO should be doing right now. All Putin wants is NOT to have NATO on his direct border - just like the USA didn't want nuclear weapons on their border back in 1962.

It’s Putin that should be backing off not NATO and Zelensky.

NATO Zelensky are not and never were planning to have nuclear weapons in Ukraine.
Putin and Lukashenko on the other hand are planning to put nuclear weapons in Belarus. The two have also invaded a sovereign state.

Putin and Lukashenko are the aggressors, not NATO and Zelensky.

For the last time, Russia has had a direct border with NATO since 1947. Stop supporting Putin on this topic.
If it was the UK under invasion, would you be suggesting that the government and NATO should "back off" and let the Russians take over?

Well said. Some people seem to have zero understanding of what’s actually happening.

That is the hangar where the incomplete second aircraft was stored. The working aircraft was parked out on the airfield and apparently was undamaged during the initial attack.

Make what you will of this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/t2lnql/an225_destruction_image_analysis_seems_real/

Satellite imagery from yesterday of Hostomel airport definitely doesn’t show the AN-225 parked on the airfield. The hanger in the photo (or more accurately a roof over a parking stand) is the dedicated An-225 spot.
There have been multiple attacks on Hostomel airport, just because it survived the first attack doesn’t mean it’s not been destroyed since.

 

[coppercapped]

Being the age of 72 (and also a Man University graduate), I too remember the Cuban Missile crisis. Kruschev (eventually) backed off - which is exactly what Zelensky and NATO should be doing right now. All Putin wants is NOT to have NATO on his direct border - just like the USA didn't want nuclear weapons on their border back in 1962.

Spoken to him. have you?

 

[Strathclyder]

Being the age of 72 (and also a Man University graduate), I too remember the Cuban Missile crisis. Kruschev (eventually) backed off - which is exactly what Zelensky and NATO should be doing right now. All Putin wants is NOT to have NATO on his direct border - just like the USA didn't want nuclear weapons on their border back in 1962.

Seriously?

As has been repeatedly pointed out already, Russia has had a direct border with NATO since the latter's formation in 1947. You wouldn't be singing the pro-Putin hymnsheet and attempting to justify his deranged barbarism if we were the ones in Ukraine's place.

But yeah: President Zelenskyy and Ukraine should just roll over and accept being brutally overthrown and let themselves be turned into a puppet state by a despotic authoritarian who knew he had no justifiable reasons to invade, so had to make some up out of browncloth. Yeah, sure.

 

[Caboose Class]

When the Wall came down in 1989 (thanks to Gorbachev), he was promised (as part of the deal to reunify East & West Germany) that there would be no further NATO expansion eastwards. You can check this out here: https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-...on-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early This is the TRUTH!!!

Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner Slavic Studies Panel Addresses “Who Promised What to Whom on NATO Expansion?”

Since then NATO has expanded into 12 countries further eastwards. The Soviet Union (then) and Russia (now) was lied to, duped and "conned"by the USA (who basically run NATO) in to believing that it could trust the West. I am no supporter of Putin but I can sure understand why he is so pissed off!

Spoken to him. have you?

Yes, just now - and he hopes you enjoy "Strictly Dancing" tonight.

 

[DanNCL]

When the Wall came down in 1989 (thanks to Gorbachev), he was promised (as part of the deal to reunify East & West Germany) that there would be no further NATO expansion eastwards. You can check this out here: https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-...on-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early This is the TRUTH!!!

No the agreement was that NATO's nuclear weapons wouldn't move eastwards and that's a promise that's been kept.

Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner Slavic Studies Panel Addresses “Who Promised What to Whom on NATO Expansion?”

Since then NATO has expanded into 12 countries further eastwards. The Soviet Union (then) and Russia (now) was lied to, duped and "conned"by the USA (who basically run NATO) in to believing that it could trust the West. I am no supporter of Putin but I can sure understand why he is so pissed off!

Anyone can assure anyone whatever the hell they like, these weren't legally binding assurances. Besides, if Russia didn't want to invade those Eastern European countries, and as it is very clear Russia is not threatened by those countries, what's their problem? Not Putin's land, none of his business, and if he don't like it he can stick it up his arse.

 

[dgl]

Naturally Russia under Putin is a bit different to Russia just after the fall of communism so we have to take that in to account when talking about previous agreements.

 

[brad465]

When I logged onto The Royal Mint website earlier, there was a queue to actually access the site. It was only for 5 people, which is very low in terms of website demand exceeding server capacity, but it's never happened whenever I've been on it in the time I've had an account (since Jan 21), and it's not even a trading day, which suggests a lot of commodity activity is expected (and not a surprise). Royal Mint site users typically have assets in any one or combination of gold, silver, platinum and collectible items made from those metals.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Interesting to see on the BBC live feed, Russia has achieved in a few days more than NATO has in decades on encouraging German military spend.

No the agreement was that NATO's nuclear weapons wouldn't move eastwards and that's a promise that's been kept.


Anyone can assure anyone whatever the hell they like, these weren't legally binding assurances. Besides, if Russia didn't want to invade those Eastern European countries, and as it is very clear Russia is not threatened by those countries, what's their problem? Not Putin's land, none of his business, and if he don't like it he can stick it up his arse.

Putin assured everyone there was no plans to invade Ukraine!

 

[hst43102]

I regret, but you are either badly misinformed or else totally dumb.

When the Wall came down in 1989 (thanks to Gorbachev), he was promised (as part of the deal to reunify East & West Germany) that there would be no further NATO expansion eastwards. You can check this out here: https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-...on-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early This is the TRUTH!!!

Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner Slavic Studies Panel Addresses “Who Promised What to Whom on NATO Expansion?”

Since then NATO has expanded into 12 countries further eastwards. The Soviet Union (then) and Russia (now) was lied to, duped and "conned"by the USA (who basically run NATO) in to believing that it could trust the West. I am no supporter of Putin but I can sure understand why he is so pissed off!


Yes, just now - and he hopes you enjoy "Strictly Dancing" tonight.

Wow. You strike me as the kind of person that would take up arms and head over to Ukraine.


To fight for the Russians.

 

[dgl]

Here's the EU's latest sanctions from the BBC News live feed.

More details now on the new measures announced by the European Union.

Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said the bloc would, for the first time in its history, "finance the purchase and delivery of weapons and other equipment to a country that is under attack".

She also said that three new tranches of sanctions would be introduced. They are:

Banning all Russian aircraft from its airspace

"We are shutting down the EU airspace for Russians," von der Leyen said.

"We're proposing a prohibition on all Russian-owned, Russian-registered, and Russian-controlled aircraft.

"These aircraft will no more be able to land in, take off, or overfly the territory of the European Union."

She said the move would also cover the private jets of Russian oligarchs.

Banning what von der Leyen called the "Kremlin's media machine"

"The state-owned Russia Today and Sputnik, as well as their subsidiaries, will no longer be able to spread their lies to justify Putin's war," she said.

"We are developing tools to ban that toxic and harmful disinformation in Europe".

Widening its existing sanctions to target Belarus

"Lukashenko's regime is complicit in the vicious attack against Ukraine," she said.

She said the sanctions would target Belarus's "most important sectors" and export products.

 

[RichJF]

Wow. You strike me as the kind of person that would take up arms and head over to Ukraine.


To fight for the Russians.

Was just about to invite that poster to emigrate to Russia rather than promote Putin's illegal invasion of a sovereign country from a democratic, freedom of speech UK.

 

[DanNCL]

Putin assured everyone there was no plans to invade Ukraine!

Indeed! Sadly assurances from governments don't mean anything these days.

 

[nanstallon]

There's some tough competition, but I think the award for most stupid tweet by a UK MP/Politician during this invasion so far goes to this one from Kevin Foster (MP for Torbay) in reply to Luke Pollard (there is no link because he's deleted it):

View attachment 110761

How stupid and bone-headed can you get? But the British are obsessed with the idea that they are special, and Johnny Foreigner must grovel for the tremendous privilege of being allowed to enter this glorious country.

Being the age of 72 (and also a Man University graduate), I too remember the Cuban Missile crisis. Kruschev (eventually) backed off - which is exactly what Zelensky and NATO should be doing right now. All Putin wants is NOT to have NATO on his direct border - just like the USA didn't want nuclear weapons on their border back in 1962.

All Putin wants is to control Eastern (and maybe Central) Europe. Appeasement doesn't work now, any more than it did in 1938. Then, we had apologists, like you, for bullies who said that Hitler just wanted to protect Germany - at Czechoslovakia's expense. But we got a war in the end, anyway.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I am no supporter of Putin but I can sure understand why he is so pissed off!

And when you are pissed off, do you normally deal with your anger by invading a sovereign country that has no blame in the reason why you're pissed off, and for good measure firing some missiles at blocks of flats that house innocent civilians?

 

[the sniper]

Interesting to see on the BBC live feed, Russia has achieved in a few days more than NATO has in decades on encouraging German military spend.

Which was an almost inevitable consequence of Putin's actions, which wouldn't have happened otherwise. It's quite an achievement. If he was genuinely concerned about NATO, he hasn't done himself any favours. If anything, Germany finally stretching to 2% is probably not enough at this point. They might also have to consider the F35 again.

I imagine the likes of Austria, Hungary, Czechia and Slovakia will have to step their games up too, even if it is more of a stretch for them. All could do with doubling the sizes of their Air Forces to be effective, at least. The risk of war in Europe can no longer be considered unimaginable.

 

[Iskra]

How stupid and bone-headed can you get? But the British are obsessed with the idea that they are special, and Johnny Foreigner must grovel for the tremendous privilege of being allowed to enter this glorious country.


All Putin wants is to control Eastern (and maybe Central) Europe. Appeasement doesn't work now, any more than it did in 1938. Then, we had apologists, like you, for bullies who said that Hitler just wanted to protect Germany - at Czechoslovakia's expense. But we got a war in the end, anyway.

There is an argument that appeasement worked, as it bought time for re-armament for Britain.

*I'm not saying we should appease Putin, however.